Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Good god. The gear industry has gone insane!

 

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ChrisL  (C 35323)

Jun 26, 2008, 6:24 AM
Post #1 of 68 (3666 views)
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     Good god. The gear industry has gone insane!  

Just got my new paragear catalog.

Have these people gone crazy???

The price increase in harness/container systems has gone through the roof in just the last 2 years.

I'm glad I bought my rig 2 years ago because I'd NEVER be able to afford to get in to this sport today Crazy

How can we expect this sport to grow when its totally inacessible to the average person?

Rigs must be made of gasoline.


(This post was edited by ChrisL on Jun 26, 2008, 6:27 AM)


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Jun 26, 2008, 6:34 AM
Post #2 of 68 (3641 views)
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     Re: [ChrisL] Good god. The gear industry has gone insane! [In reply to]  

In reply to:

Rigs must be made of gasoline.
Umm, what did you think they were made of?


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Jun 26, 2008, 6:36 AM
Post #3 of 68 (3640 views)
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     Re: [ChrisL] Good god. The gear industry has gone insane! [In reply to]  

The raw cost of materials has gone skyhigh. The manufactors have to pass these costs on to the consumer, simple economics.

I bought a used rig with 65 jumps on it with an almost new Spectrre, new cypres and PD reserver in late 2000 for $3750, I'm looking at ordering a container this fall and my quote is upwards of $2500 for the container alone. Considering I have 1300 jumps on my current container and the new one will last at least as long if not more... its still a great value.


hajnalka  (A License)

Jun 26, 2008, 7:05 AM
Post #4 of 68 (3592 views)
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     Re: [ChrisL] Good god. The gear industry has gone insane! [In reply to]  

The price of EVERYTHING has gone through the roof in just the last 2 years.

The "average" person is having a hard time buying groceries and filling their car up with $4/gallon gas. Why do you think gear manufacturers are any different?

The price of the raw materials used to build a rig (astronomical, and getting higher all the time) are a sign of the economy in general.

Believe me, gear manufacturers are NOT getting rich right now, and I'm sure they hated having to raise their prices. The good people I know working at many of them are all about helping people enter the sport.

Things are tough all over Crazy

Best,
Dawn


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Jun 26, 2008, 7:14 AM
Post #5 of 68 (3582 views)
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     Re: [hajnalka] Good god. The gear industry has gone insane! [In reply to]  

Yeah, and if I'm not mistaken, have some manufacturers started offering financing on gear? I could be wrong, but I don't think that was available 10 years ago.

Good thing I'm not jumping all that much these days so my gear will still be good for many more years.


ChrisL  (C 35323)

Jun 26, 2008, 8:03 AM
Post #6 of 68 (3533 views)
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     Re: [BillyVance] Good god. The gear industry has gone insane! [In reply to]  

In reply to:

Good thing I'm not jumping all that much these days so my gear will still be good for many more years.

Amen to that.


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Jun 26, 2008, 9:02 AM
Post #7 of 68 (3483 views)
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     Re: [ChrisL] Good god. The gear industry has gone insane! [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:

Good thing I'm not jumping all that much these days so my gear will still be good for many more years.

Amen to that.

About the only time I'll buy new gear is when I hit the lottery! Wink

I've done all I pretty much wanted to in this sport and I'm still in it just to have fun. If my gear wears out, no problem. There'll be other things to do.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jun 26, 2008, 10:48 AM
Post #8 of 68 (3384 views)
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     Re: [BillyVance] Good god. The gear industry has gone insane! [In reply to]  

In reply to:
I've done all I pretty much wanted to in this sport and I'm still in it just to have fun.

If you were not having fun before why the hell were you jumping. After all skydiving is just recreation.

Sparky


skydiverton2  (D License)

Jun 26, 2008, 11:04 AM
Post #9 of 68 (3367 views)
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     Re: [mjosparky] Good god. The gear industry has gone insane! [In reply to]  

And the dollar lost 30% against the euro. I don't think US gear is really expensive in euros.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jun 26, 2008, 11:41 AM
Post #10 of 68 (3335 views)
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     Re: [ChrisL] Good god. The gear industry has gone insane! [In reply to]  

1) Rigs ARE made of oil.
2) Components/materials come from overseas, and our dollar isn't doing so well against other currencies - so our prices go up.


DrewEckhardt  (D 28461)

Jun 26, 2008, 2:28 PM
Post #11 of 68 (3160 views)
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     Re: [ChrisL] Good god. The gear industry has gone insane! [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Just got my new paragear catalog.

Have these people gone crazy???

How can we expect this sport to grow when its totally inacessible to the average person?

There's plenty of affordable used gear out there. I spent $700 for my last used container+reserve and made my last used main sale for $350 ($1050 total). You can even get a nice used rig for $3K with Cypres.

Cypres AADs run about $12/month in depreciation + maintenance + battery replacement; new or used just changes when you make the payments and who they go to (gear dealer, credit card, airtec for maintenance).

Although the average new car is now $28,000 people don't seem to have any problems driving, although the average new car buyer is now 48 years old. And those buying used cars are averaging $13900 which buys 4-6 used rigs.


(This post was edited by DrewEckhardt on Jun 26, 2008, 2:37 PM)


Converted1  (Student)

Jun 26, 2008, 3:14 PM
Post #12 of 68 (3117 views)
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     Re: [DrewEckhardt] Good god. The gear industry has gone insane! [In reply to]  

What?Laugh Hard to drive 4-6 used rigs to work. Just saying. I know a few people who do not jump anymore because of the cost. They got priced out. I know I only have a couple jumps in (so please forgive me) but if the cost was low enough for the common folk, than more people would take up this great sport and so the manufacturers would make more money on quantity. I have a hard time believing that a container cost 2-3k to make. Flame away!


DrewEckhardt  (D 28461)

Jun 26, 2008, 3:52 PM
Post #13 of 68 (3083 views)
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     Re: [Converted1] Good god. The gear industry has gone insane! [In reply to]  

In reply to:
What?Laugh Hard to drive 4-6 used rigs to work.

Yeah, but you can keep driving your 10+ year old used car to work instead of replacing it when many people would. I have a nice 11 year old car with 80,000 miles and my wife's 13 year old Honda is going strong at over twice that. It's about priorities.

In reply to:
Just saying. I know a few people who do not jump anymore because of the cost. They got priced out. I know I only have a couple jumps in (so please forgive me) but if the cost was low enough for the common folk, than more people would take up this great sport and so the manufacturers would make more money on quantity. I have a hard time believing that a container cost 2-3k to make. Flame away!

Cost of production has nothing to do with what the market will bear. Some of the manufacturers selling $2-$3K containers have 6 month back logs due to their rigs popularity. If you don't like it they'll keep their sewers busy working on products for the much larger military market.

I don't like it and wouldn't buy one. IMHO some of the less expensive rigs are better built than some of the more expensive ones (ex, lined vs. unlined) with better customer service and fewer quality control issues.

A Wings is still $1200 street price ($1300 articulated) which is surprisingly close to the the ~900 we were paying for less popular rigs in 1998 ($1160 in 2007 dollars) considering increased oil prices and the devalued dollar.

Plus options. If you want something both functional and pretty you can spend spend spend.


(This post was edited by DrewEckhardt on Jun 26, 2008, 4:10 PM)


livendive  (D 21415)

Jun 26, 2008, 4:26 PM
Post #14 of 68 (3056 views)
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     Re: [ChrisL] Good god. The gear industry has gone insane! [In reply to]  

I agree it's gotten kinda crazy, but decent deals can still be found on the used market. I helped someone buy a Triathlon Monday for $800, built in 07 with about 100 jumps on it. I helped someone else buy a rig a couple weeks ago that included all the nice "extras"...skyhook, articulated harness, CYPRES 2, PD reserve, etc. The whole thing was built in 06, had less than a hundred jumps on it, and was $3900 packed & ready to jump. Considering the last new sport rig I bought was $2900 eight years ago with no CYPRES and a Tempo reserve, I thought it was a decent deal.

Blues,
Dave


Converted1  (Student)

Jun 26, 2008, 5:46 PM
Post #15 of 68 (3011 views)
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     Re: [DrewEckhardt] Good god. The gear industry has gone insane! [In reply to]  

I agree with you. But the 1st time tandem student who absolutely loves it and wants to go further in this sport, does some re-search and looks at Aff and then owning a rig of his own might get a little put off by the price list just to get started. Not everyone hunts for used gear. A newbie like myself doesn't know the difference between used gear thats a deal and used gear i wouldnt use to slow down my lawnmower. And not everyone has the newbies best interest at heart. NOT saying it applies to everyone. Kind of like rolling the dice. I am sure there are great people and used gear abundant all over, but if I asked 3 different people about the same rig I would get 3 different answers. Some people arent willing to take that risk.


hackish  (No License)

Jun 26, 2008, 6:00 PM
Post #16 of 68 (3001 views)
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     Re: [Converted1] Good god. The gear industry has gone insane! [In reply to]  

In reply to:
-SNIP- A newbie like myself doesn't know the difference between used gear thats a deal and used gear i wouldnt use to slow down my lawnmower. And not everyone has the newbies best interest at heart. NOT saying it applies to everyone. Kind of like rolling the dice. -SNIP-

This is why they invented riggers. Although every rigger has opinions, we are educated and practiced in inspecting a rig from top to bottom to determine it's airworthiness. From a safety point of view your rigger can generally give you good advice on the condition of a rig. Next to that you have to do the research to figure out which rig you want - a task no different than if you're buying new.

-Michael


Premier slotperfect  (D 13014)

Jun 26, 2008, 7:11 PM
Post #17 of 68 (2964 views)
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     Re: [ChrisL] Good god. The gear industry has gone insane! [In reply to]  

To all: this conversation about how the economy has affected the gear industry is welcome here in the Gear and Rigging Forum. Please keep it specifically oriented toward the skydiving industry - discussion about the political elements of the changing economy belongs in SC.


parachutist  (D 25468)

Jun 27, 2008, 12:40 AM
Post #18 of 68 (2874 views)
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     Re: [PhreeZone] Good god. The gear industry has gone insane! [In reply to]  

In reply to:
The raw cost of materials has gone skyhigh. The manufactors have to pass these costs on to the consumer, simple economics.


Also several manufacturers have complicated their rigs, adding skyhook-ready etc gadgets. That shoots the prices up too.


Premier skydiverek  (C 41769)

Jun 27, 2008, 4:51 AM
Post #19 of 68 (2796 views)
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     Re: [skydiverton2] Good god. The gear industry has gone insane! [In reply to]  

In reply to:
And the dollar lost 30% against the euro. I don't think US gear is really expensive in euros.

That's true. In Poland we don't have Euro (yet), we still have Polish Zloty (PLN). Some 8 years ago 1000 USD = 4000 PLN. Now 1000 USD = 2000 PLN. I think that that's the Europeans that are creating backlog of orders for containers - thank you America for your weak dollar Tongue !


mircan  (D 32291)

Jun 27, 2008, 7:12 AM
Post #20 of 68 (2724 views)
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     Re: [skydiverek] Good god. The gear industry has gone insane! [In reply to]  

Not 100% true. Shipping to Europe, customs and taxes can add up to 40% on the starting price.
We just ordered some gear through para-gear.
In total it was price ($) = price(euro).


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Jun 27, 2008, 7:29 AM
Post #21 of 68 (2715 views)
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     Re: [mjosparky] Good god. The gear industry has gone insane! [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
I've done all I pretty much wanted to in this sport and I'm still in it just to have fun.

If you were not having fun before why the hell were you jumping. After all skydiving is just recreation.

Sparky

I HAVE been having fun ever since the beginning, however I had goals to work towards as well. Now it's just for fun.


drdive  (D 29619)

Jun 27, 2008, 8:18 AM
Post #22 of 68 (2690 views)
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     Re: [mircan] Good god. The gear industry has gone insane! [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Not 100% true. Shipping to Europe, customs and taxes can add up to 40% on the starting price.
We just ordered some gear through para-gear.
In total it was price ($) = price(euro).

I don't know how much gear you ordered, but if it was a new rig, for 40% you could have bought a plane ticket to FL, picked up the gear, and had a jumping vacation.

Doc


mircan  (D 32291)

Jun 27, 2008, 8:34 AM
Post #23 of 68 (2671 views)
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     Re: [drdive] Good god. The gear industry has gone insane! [In reply to]  

Now that is 100% true.
Even my dealer recommends it (although, messing with visa, getting days off work... would be PITA).

And no, we ordered some accessories...

I ordered two shirts (50$) last winter. Extra charges were 25euro. Total: 90$. Good shirts, but not worth that kind of money. Next time I`ll wait for some of my friends to get back from the states and bring it personally. Unsure
Hopefully in late July.


DougH  (D License)

Jun 27, 2008, 10:23 AM
Post #24 of 68 (2593 views)
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     Re: [drdive] Good god. The gear industry has gone insane! [In reply to]  

One could possibly make good money, and free trips to Europe bringing rigs over no?

Rig smugglers. Laugh


skydiverton2  (D License)

Jun 27, 2008, 10:35 AM
Post #25 of 68 (2585 views)
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     Re: [mircan] Good god. The gear industry has gone insane! [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Not 100% true. Shipping to Europe, customs and taxes can add up to 40% on the starting price.
We just ordered some gear through para-gear.
In total it was price ($) = price(euro).

Only if you pay the taxTongue
get a ticket to florida and a bit of good luck at customs.........


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