Forums: Skydiving: Skydiving History & Trivia:
Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers

 

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zoobrothertom  (D 9397)

Jun 4, 2008, 8:21 AM
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Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers Can't Post

F#%@ing spell checker locked up! So, here it is again.Crazy

Just a thought. Should we compare low pulls from the 'old daze' vs. swooping fatalities today?

Have the new studs of the sport traded low pulls (unbeknownst to them) for swooping to get the same thrill?

If you've been jumping more than a few years, you've pulled low occasionally. I'm comfortable pulling at 2K when I have to. Also, not uncomfortable when I have to pull at 1500' because someone got over my back without lookig down.!Tongue

I was fortunate to learn back in '82~83 from the old timers who ocassionally waved me into a 3 way at 2300 feet. Dock around 18~1900 ft, break, staggered pull and sitting in around 1300' ready to chop and pull if need be.

So, we can't do that any more (except Friday afternoon) without getting gounded for 30 daysFrown.

So, what do you think. Have our newbies gone swooping because they're taught that low pulls are verbotten? (That's German for forbiddenCool)


grimmie  (D 18890)

Jun 4, 2008, 8:47 AM
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Re: [zoobrothertom] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Can't Post

No, we swoop 'cuz chicks dig it!Wink


labrys  (D 29848)

Jun 4, 2008, 9:18 AM
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Re: [zoobrothertom] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Can't Post

Booth's Law


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jun 4, 2008, 12:52 PM
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Re: [labrys] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:


Booth Law #1

"The lower you pull, the longer your parachute will take to open, and the more likely it is to malfunction."


Booth Law #2

"The safer skydiving gear becomes the more chances skydivers will take, in order to keep the fatality rate constant."


Sparky Law #6

If you are going to be stupid you had better be tough.


Sparky


airtwardo  (D License)

Jun 4, 2008, 1:32 PM
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Re: [mjosparky] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:


Booth Law #1

"The lower you pull, the longer your parachute will take to open, and the more likely it is to malfunction."


Booth Law #2

"The safer skydiving gear becomes the more chances skydivers will take, in order to keep the fatality rate constant."


Sparky Law #6

If you are going to be stupid you had better be tough.


Sparky





Twardo's Law #13


~ 2nd one to the crater, gets the best stuff! Devil


airtwardo  (D License)

Jun 4, 2008, 1:34 PM
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Re: [zoobrothertom] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Can't Post

 

So, what do you think. Have our newbies gone swooping because they're taught that low pulls are verbotten?


In reply to:

Nope...they finally figured out that all ya can do is TIE the low pull record! Sly


980  (D 980)

Jun 4, 2008, 1:39 PM
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Re: [labrys] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Can't Post

not to take anything from Bill for noticing its application in skydiving, but he was 9 years behind Gerald J.S. Wilde's book


(This post was edited by 980 on Jun 4, 2008, 1:40 PM)


DrewEckhardt  (D 28461)

Jun 4, 2008, 10:08 PM
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Re: [airtwardo] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

So, what do you think. Have our newbies gone swooping because they're taught that low pulls are verbotten?

Modern skydiving gear is not conducive to making a career out of low pulls and there are more interesting places than airports to scare yourself with ground rush.


(This post was edited by DrewEckhardt on Jun 4, 2008, 10:09 PM)


murrays  (C 1285)

Jun 4, 2008, 11:07 PM
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Re: [airtwardo] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Twardo's Law #13


~ 2nd one to the crater, gets the best stuff! Devil

Awesome!!CoolCoolCoolCool


johnA123  (D License)

Jun 5, 2008, 11:35 AM
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Re: [zoobrothertom] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Can't Post

"So, what do you think. Have our newbies gone swooping because they're taught that low pulls are verbotten"

No don't think so. swooping is just a part of what technology provides.
Most swoopers and newer jumpers I know are scared SH!@#$% to pull low or even transfer to a reserve. In recent travels I stopped at a new DZ for me and got to make 1 load, a "hop and pop" as they exited at 6000' i thought why not a 4 way? So I scared everone by opening at 2000'. 1st question after the jump was "did I have a problem with my handle? Laughing I said no just couldn't waste altitude to open high and not al least do CRW.

The low pullers I've known are still alive today or not dead from low pulls.
We knew where we were and anticipated having problems, plus the canopies opened faster and in the 80's malfunctions about became extinct. Now we have canopies that are a cutaway because of line twists!
Also we shot accuracy, and now people swoop for distance.
Swoopers IMO have more of a chance for death/injury due to the close proximinity with the ground when performing their manuvers.

See ya


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jun 5, 2008, 1:42 PM
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Re: [airtwardo] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
~Real spotting requires looking at the ground... not the green light ~

Red light, Green light was a game played by Engineer Bill with a glass of milk.TongueWink

Sparky


AggieDave  (D License)

Jun 5, 2008, 3:24 PM
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Re: [johnA123] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Laughing I said no just couldn't waste altitude to open high and not al least do CRW.

My canopy takes nearly 1000' to open and it can take me up to 500' to release and stow my RDS. I start my landing pattern at about 2500' for a swoop run. Hence the higher altitude request for some swoopers.Wink


Gene03

Jun 5, 2008, 6:53 PM
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Re: [AggieDave] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Can't Post

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Quote:
Laughing I said no just couldn't waste altitude to open high and not al least do CRW.

My canopy takes nearly 1000' to open and it can take me up to 500' to release and stow my RDS. I start my landing pattern at about 2500' for a swoop run. Hence the higher altitude request for some swoopers.Wink

...and that's why you're still here to tell us about it.


fastphil  (D 5801)

Jun 6, 2008, 7:13 PM
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Re: [AggieDave] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
Laughing I said no just couldn't waste altitude to open high and not al least do CRW.

My canopy takes nearly 1000' to open and it can take me up to 500' to release and stow my RDS. I start my landing pattern at about 2500' for a swoop run. Hence the higher altitude request for some swoopers.Wink



Wow, I can remember my canopy taking 150 feet to open and then another 50 to pop the brakes; but I started the landing pattern the day before the swoop (not called that yet).

I like this topic. When I jumped (70s and 80s) I was quite comfortable with pack opening by 2000 feet, but rarely saw reason to go lower. Doesnt swooping take a little more talent then just pulling low???


tetra316  (D 26945)

Jun 6, 2008, 8:57 PM
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Re: [zoobrothertom] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Can't Post

Nah, most people have just turned into turbine brats. I 'grew up' on a cessna dz and as such have absolutely no problem exiting at 2000. Most turbine brats would never consider that. Just a matter of perspective.


diablopilot  (D License)

Jun 8, 2008, 3:57 AM
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Re: [tetra316] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Can't Post

Hell, I have no problem exiting below 2000 ft. I just won't be swooping, and I'll choose the right equipment for the job.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jun 8, 2008, 4:12 PM
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Re: [tetra316] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Most turbine brats would never consider that. Just a matter of perspective.

I dont think it has so much to do with the type of aircraft as it has to do with mind set during training. AFF students complete their student training without ever leaving the a/c below 3,500 feet. As a S/L student I had 10/12 jumps before I ever exited above 3,500 feet.

As JP said its all about understanding the situation and choosing the right equipment.

Sparky


mwabd1  (D 25298)

Jun 8, 2008, 5:35 PM
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Re: [mjosparky] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Can't Post

I have done both (although I do have a nice pic of my shoe laces in freefall.....taken from the ground!), I have no issues at all exiting at 2000' or for that matter throwing at 1500'. I did not start jumping until 1997 so I guess I missed out on all the good 'ol days.


dnhump  (F License)

Jun 9, 2008, 3:19 AM
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Re: [mwabd1] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Can't Post

 I find thrill in pulling low enough to shit my pants but high enough to avoid cypress-fire... It's a fine line with me!

I call it "beat the clock" Wanna play?


bozo  (D 10154)

Jun 9, 2008, 5:15 AM
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Re: [dnhump] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I find thrill in pulling low enough to shit my pants but high enough to avoid cypress-fire... It's a fine line with me!

I call it "beat the clock" Wanna play?



Do it without the CYPRES.....


jcecil

Jun 9, 2008, 6:55 AM
Post #21 of 68 (2565 views)
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Re: [zoobrothertom] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Can't Post

2000' (or slightly lower depending on clouds and airspeed!) doesn't bother me at all, but it is interesting to note in my case both times I've had to cutaway my main and land my reserve were jumps from 2000'. . . . not related to exit altitude (pretty sure same malfunction would've occured from a terminal opening) I don't think, but interesting anyway.


fastphil  (D 5801)

Jun 9, 2008, 11:03 AM
Post #22 of 68 (2537 views)
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Re: [zoobrothertom] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Can't Post

So which would say has the greater spectator appeal; swooping is very cool to watch, but terminal freefall below 500' AGL is completely awe inspiring, especially when there is low background noise on the ground.

I've made freefalls from planes, helicopters and BASE at 1000 feet but to freefall below a thousand feet while at terminal takes a different breed. All the oldtimer low pull artists I've known seemed to use Piglet (round) canopies...


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jun 9, 2008, 7:47 PM
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Re: [bozo] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Do it without the CYPRES.....

Now we are talking. Want to play?

Sparky


airtwardo  (D License)

Jun 9, 2008, 10:36 PM
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Re: [mjosparky] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Do it without the CYPRES.....

Now we are talking. Want to play?

Sparky



You bet! Cool



No altimeters~ no goggles! Angelic


...First one to pull, buys the last one to pull (if alive) free booze all night! Devil Monkey


(This post was edited by airtwardo on Jun 10, 2008, 12:52 AM)


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jun 10, 2008, 12:22 AM
Post #25 of 68 (2457 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Low Pull Artists vs. Swoopers [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Do it without the CYPRES.....

Now we are talking. Want to play?

Sparky



You bet! Cool



No altimeters~ no goggles! Angelic


...First one to pull, buys the last on to pull (if alive) free booze all night! Devil Monkey

You got a deal. TongueSmile I was trained by Terry Ward.Crazy

Sparky


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