Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
170 main, is it too soon?

 


kpuser  (B 27999)

May 24, 2008, 6:03 AM
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170 main, is it too soon? Can't Post

I haven't been skydiving regularly for about two years, however that is all about to change. I'm planning on buying gear soon so I can start jumping regularly again.

I've been looking at buying a new container which will fit a 190 main, yet when I talk to staff at gear stores I have heard remarks stating that I'll get bored/outgrow a 190 pretty quickly. Their advice is to get a container built for a 170 and "grow into it." Is this safe? What have y'all done when getting gear? Is there much of a difference with the 170 vs. the 190?

My out the plane weight is about 175 + or - 5 pounds. I have about 70 jumps, but in the last year I've jumped once. I plan on renting gear for about 10-15 jumps or as long as it takes to get comfortable again before I start jumping my own gear.


pilot-one  (D 30000)

May 24, 2008, 6:27 AM
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Re: [kpuser] 170 main, is it too soon? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I haven't been skydiving regularly for about two years, however that is all about to change. I'm planning on buying gear soon so I can start jumping regularly again.

I've been looking at buying a new container which will fit a 190 main, yet when I talk to staff at gear stores I have heard remarks stating that I'll get bored/outgrow a 190 pretty quickly. Their advice is to get a container built for a 170 and "grow into it." Is this safe? What have y'all done when getting gear? Is there much of a difference with the 170 vs. the 190?

My out the plane weight is about 175 + or - 5 pounds. I have about 70 jumps, but in the last year I've jumped once. I plan on renting gear for about 10-15 jumps or as long as it takes to get comfortable again before I start jumping my own gear.

Personally I think you'll need to get a hundred jumps on the 190. You may be bored but it is imperative that you build some basic skills before moving to a more exciting canopy. Some on this forum may even say a 210 because of your low jump numbers and currency.
Buying a rig that fits a 190 and a 170 is completely within normal parameters. All containers have the variable ability to hold different size mains safely.


airtwardo  (D License)

May 24, 2008, 7:00 AM
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Re: [pilot-one] 170 main, is it too soon? [In reply to] Can't Post

 All containers have the variable ability to hold different size mains safely.


In reply to:

How about 'most' instead of all...Wink


Squeak  (E 1313)

May 24, 2008, 7:12 AM
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Re: [kpuser] 170 main, is it too soon? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd go for the 170, you'll load it at about 1:1, but i would also do about 10-20 canopy coach jumps 1st.

But there will be loads of people here to tell you to stay bigger.

Your best bet is to ask your instructors, they know you and will know how you fly


BIGUN  (D 23385)

May 24, 2008, 7:57 AM
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Re: [kpuser] 170 main, is it too soon? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I've been looking at buying a new container which will fit a 190 main, yet when I talk to staff at gear stores I have heard remarks stating that I'll get bored/outgrow a 190 pretty quickly. Their advice is to get a container built for a 170 and "grow into it."

They are not saying get a 170 canopy. What they are saying is to consider getting a container that will house down from a 190 to a 170.


shermanator  (B License)

May 24, 2008, 9:06 AM
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Re: [kpuser] 170 main, is it too soon? [In reply to] Can't Post

That is what I did. I ordered my container for a 170-150. While waiting for it, i worked my way down. the SIM has some good canopy drills in it that may help to prepare for the downsize. I'm about the same wing loading as you are, with such low numbers, you won't want to get yourself into a downwinder, but be ready for one if it does happen.

Remember, it is YOU who will be flying the canopy, and YOU who will be responsible for your own actions if you are injured jumping it. good luck.


baseknut  (D 29908)

May 24, 2008, 1:39 PM
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Re: [kpuser] 170 main, is it too soon? [In reply to] Can't Post

My first canopy was a Sabre1 170. I put a hundred or so jumps on it. It was an awesome first main. I was 210 out the door and it flew fine. I landed off safely, avoiding obstacles safely, and lived being cut off.

Basically it all comes down to if you think your skills would be conducive to you flying and landing it safely.

At my wingloading I didnt notice much of a difference between a 190 and a 170, except in front risers and a slight agility gain.

Do what you think you should do.

~J


erdnarob  (D 364)

May 24, 2008, 4:13 PM
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Re: [kpuser] 170 main, is it too soon? [In reply to] Can't Post

Being logical to my precedent posts, I would give you a go for a 170 zero porosity canopy: you have a lot of choice: Sabre-2, Safire 2, Pilot, Firebolt...
Again and I want all the readers to take note of this: Get a good briefing from an instructor who knows you. A lot a space ahead of you at landing into the wind and keep on going straight forward making sure your toggles are symetrical which needs first some concentration. Your load factor will be 1.06 which is super conservative.
The difference between a 190 and a 170? The 170 is faster (but at your wing loading not too fast) then it will provide you with a more dynamic flare. Get briefed for the flare. Have someone taking a short video of your landing seen from the side. Any good pocket digital camera has the "movie" option now. The 170 zero porosity will give you more forward speed then more penetration into the wind which is always good to have when the winds picked up.


hackish  (No License)

May 24, 2008, 6:09 PM
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Re: 170 main, is it too soon? [In reply to] Can't Post

If it's available I think a canopy piloting course would be an excellent choice. I took the Scott Miller course when I was in DeLand and it helped me out in a lot of ways. I don't think people on the internet can tell you if a 170 is right for you. It was right for me and I'm happy I got it instead of a 190.

-Michael


kpuser  (B 27999)

May 24, 2008, 11:21 PM
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170 main, is it too soon? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the advice. I'm going to elect to take whatever coaching and training I can get in the next two months and then see what the coach has to say. I appreciate the advice from everyone.


pilot-one  (D 30000)

May 27, 2008, 7:14 AM
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Re: [airtwardo] 170 main, is it too soon? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
All containers have the variable ability to hold different size mains safely.


In reply to:

How about 'most' instead of all...Wink

Tell me one modern container designed for a 190 that won't hold a 170.


mdrejhon  (C 3268)

May 27, 2008, 7:49 AM
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Re: [kpuser] 170 main, is it too soon? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I haven't been skydiving regularly for about two years, however that is all about to change. I'm planning on buying gear soon so I can start jumping regularly again.
I was doing the 190 versus 170 debate for my first rig. I was a little borderline, but I think I was within reasonable parameters (big DZ with lots of outs and good people, sit-in of canopy course) so I went with a 170 at 1.1 wingload at 59 jumps.

I still jump it to this date, 170, about 200 jumps later. I've demoed and rented 150's but am not in a hurry to go downsize, mainly due to expense, but visiting other dropzones on a really hot day, like Perris and its unpredictable winds, can make a 170 feel much scarier than a 143 on a calm day in my actual experience (I've jumped a PD143R demo).

It is easy to say that go for the 190. But you will probably get advice, even from instructors, from the dropzone that a 170 is probably fine because many dropzones tend to recommend wingload 1.0 so you'd be right around that. If you can get to a canopy course ASAP (Scott Miller, Brian Germain) then you're much safer on the 170, unless you are one who tend to be daring. It is my opinion a new 170 feels safer than an old used 190 with ZP that has lost a little bit of its ability to hold air, so if you're buying new, then that helps. But rent a 190 several, several, several times, under supervision. Most people agree that a good canopy course is strongly recommended, no matter what...

So in brief, 190 if you don't want a canopy course, but 170 is probably fine if you want to go to a canopy course BEFORE jumping it. You'd be within a lot of DZO's safety parameters, assuming you're at least an average jumper. Now....

Quote:
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to elect to take whatever coaching and training I can get in the next two months and then see what the coach has to say. I appreciate the advice from everyone.

Do that. Talk to your instructors and coaches who see your landings, talk to the DZO, talk to the gear store. Get a unamious recommendation. If all say 170, chances it's no problem - just get canopy coaching. If one of these people recommend a 190 even though everybody else says 170, go with that.


(This post was edited by mdrejhon on May 27, 2008, 8:01 AM)


pilot-one  (D 30000)

May 27, 2008, 9:39 AM
Post #13 of 13 (676 views)
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Re: [mdrejhon] 170 main, is it too soon? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
talk to the DZO

I wouldn't talk to my DZO for jack. He's the worst canopy pilot on the dropzone.Tongue



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