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Cowboys Caravan

 

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cosmo22  (D License)

Apr 13, 2008, 5:04 AM
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Cowboys Caravan Can't Post

 
I remember being at The 85 FB Convention.
And being on a Caravan load.With Dave Williams
at the controls(wore a light brown suit,with cowboy
boots).At 4500 ft.the engine started sputterng.
We Bailed.And it landed with out incident.And flew
the rest of the covention.And it went in ,down in
GA a month later.Also remember hearing about
a jumper being found Dead in someones back yard
In Knoxville KY.With 39 kilos of coke.cash,and guns,gold krugerands.And all the runors at the time
That Dave Williams was invovled.And finally
After watching the fmc channel.They had the story
of Andrew Thornton.(The Dead Jumper).But they
never found out who the other jumper was.It
was speculted to be Dave Williams.Any one know
Andrew Thornton?Now how many jumps he had, or
where he jumped?Much better story than D.B Cooper,
This guy was brutal,His Organization was linked to
Killings of judges,And prosecuters.


(This post was edited by cosmo22 on Apr 13, 2008, 8:12 AM)


howardwhite  (C 3896)

Apr 13, 2008, 5:13 AM
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Re: [cosmo22] Cowboys Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

Many, many threads on Cowboy's Caravan, including this one.

HW


cosmo22  (D License)

Apr 13, 2008, 5:26 AM
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Okay,But i do not see any mention of the investagative discovery story
on Andrew Thornton.Which tells the
story in detail.That he bailed out of the plane.
Because of his paranoia.Because he thought
he was be followed by A DEA plane.It does
not mention Dave Williams.But if you do
a search on google of Andrew Thornton.
Wikipedia.Has an article on Andrew Thornton.
And it mentions Dave Williams as being an alleged
smuggler.I have not even thought about it in years.
The investagative discovery show,ignited my new
interest.So if im brining up something thats been posted a 100 times.I apolagize.


(This post was edited by cosmo22 on Apr 13, 2008, 8:35 AM)


WGore  (D 3379)

Apr 14, 2008, 11:59 AM
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Re: [cosmo22] Cowboys Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Okay,But i do not see any mention of the investagative discovery story
on Andrew Thornton.Which tells the
story in detail.That he bailed out of the plane.
Because of his paranoia.Because he thought
he was be followed by A DEA plane.It does
not mention Dave Williams.But if you do
a search on google of Andrew Thornton.
Wikipedia.Has an article on Andrew Thornton.
And it mentions Dave Williams as being an alleged
smuggler.I have not even thought about it in years.
The investagative discovery show,ignited my new
interest.So if im brining up something thats been posted a 100 times.I apolagize.

I haven't seen the investigative story that you reference but I think a lot of what they came up with was conjecture. As far as I know, no one was ever arrested and or convicted in this particular instance. And the 2 people that you mention are dead.
Does someone know something, probably, are they talking, not so far!
I do agree that it is more interesting than the DB Cooper mystery, but then it happened on my side of the country. And I knew a few of the principles through skydiving and lost way too many friends on the Caravan, one very close friend.


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Apr 14, 2008, 4:08 PM
Post #5 of 32 (5432 views)
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Re: [cosmo22] Cowboys Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I remember being at The 85 FB Convention.
And being on a Caravan load.With Dave Williams
at the controls(wore a light brown suit,with cowboy
boots).At 4500 ft.the engine started sputterng.
We Bailed.And it landed with out incident.And flew
the rest of the covention.And it went in ,down in
GA a month later.Also remember hearing about
a jumper being found Dead in someones back yard
In Knoxville KY.With 39 kilos of coke.cash,and guns,gold krugerands.And all the runors at the time
That Dave Williams was invovled.And finally
After watching the fmc channel.They had the story
of Andrew Thornton.(The Dead Jumper).But they
never found out who the other jumper was.It
was speculted to be Dave Williams.Any one know
Andrew Thornton?Now how many jumps he had, or
where he jumped?Much better story than D.B Cooper,
This guy was brutal,His Organization was linked to
Killings of judges,And prosecuters.

Cowboy and Thronton were very good friends, even traveling the country together with their coke queen girlfriends on the Cowboy's Caravan boogie circuit.

As for whether Cowboy was on the fateful load that killed Andrew and coated some guy's yard with dope, that's never been shown.


NickDG  (D 8904)

Apr 16, 2008, 1:22 PM
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Re: [chuckakers] Cowboys Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm pretty sure Cowboy was with Andrew that night. They set the auto pilot and left. And they had probably done it a few times before.

There's also a current big time gear manufacturer who cringes every time this subject comes up. I'll never say who it is as I don't want to sleep with the fishes . . .

NickD Smile


bozo  (D 10154)

Apr 16, 2008, 7:31 PM
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Re: [NickDG] Cowboys Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm pretty sure Cowboy was with Andrew that night. They set the auto pilot and left. And they had probably done it a few times before.

NickD Smile


Same story I heard at the time from a fed buddy of mine. He also told me that they had found a C206 or C205, I cant remember now...up the flitepath from where they found Thornton crashed in the treetops. The autopilot was on.


howardwhite  (C 3896)

Apr 17, 2008, 5:47 AM
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Re: [NickDG] Cowboys Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

See also http://www.time.com/...,9171,960158,00.html

HW


chuckakers  (D 10855)

Apr 18, 2008, 4:56 AM
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Kinda funny - the article you linked says "Along the way, he apparently dropped 200 lbs. of cocaine by parachute in the vicinity of Georgia's Chattahoochee River, where it landed in a tree and was recovered by narcotics agents."

As I remember it, the dope was actually discovered by a bear, which was later found dead of an overdose. Seems bears like the smell and taste of cocaine. It was after the bear was found that the authorities searched the area and found some unclaimed cocaine filled duffel bags.

The article also says Cowboys Caravan had sugar-spiked fuel when it went down, which was suspected early on. According to the FBI, the fuel was contaminated, but not spiked, and they later dismissed the sabotage possibility.


howardwhite  (C 3896)

Apr 18, 2008, 5:37 AM
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I don't take responsibility for what Time wrote.Tongue

From a couple of other contemporary news stories:
Oct. 17, '85
"Andrew Thornton II's fatal plunge while smuggling drugs last month into Knoxville probably did not prompt the sabotage of a plane that crashed in Georgia 2 1/2 weeks later, authorities said yesterday. After intensive investigation by at least six federal agencies, no connection has been found between Thornton's drug smuggling and the crash in Jenkinsburg, Ga., which killed 17 people. 'We're keeping our eyes open for a possible connection...' "

Dec. 24, '85
"Investigators searching for cocaine dropped by an airborne smuggler have found a ripped-up shipment of the sweet-smelling powder and the remains of a bear that apparently died of a multimillion-dollar high. 'The bear got to it before we could, and he tore the duffel bag open, got him some cocaine and OD`d (overdosed),' said Gary Garner of the Georgia Bureau of Investigation (GBI). 'There`s nothing left but bones and a big hide.'"

HW


timber  (D 14846)

Apr 18, 2008, 10:13 AM
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Last year I read two great books on this subject. "The Bluegrass Conspiracy" and "Cowboys Caravan". There are two different view points. We know Cowboy and Andrew were good friends. Cowboys Father seems to down play his sons involvement. I would love to know what really happened! I believe this could be made into a great movie! Just what skydiving needs though another movie about drug running skydivers like "Dropzone" and "Cut Away".


cosmo22  (D License)

Apr 18, 2008, 8:14 PM
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What I remember about Cowboys Caravan
Was that new car smell.And i could have
swore it had 2 doors left and right.Icould
have sworn i got in om the right side and
exited on the leftAnyone confirm this?Or
Am i dillosionalAnd the brown suit Dave
Williams was wering was denim.And he he had this short blond female for a manifestor.Who was really nice.


(This post was edited by cosmo22 on Apr 18, 2008, 8:19 PM)


cosmo22  (D License)

Apr 18, 2008, 8:42 PM
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The story on Andrhttp://www.crimelibrary.com/gangsters_outlaws/gang/dd_fall_of_andrew_c_thornton_ii_the_company/1_index.htmlew tornton


NickDG  (D 8904)

Apr 18, 2008, 9:33 PM
Post #14 of 32 (5016 views)
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Re: [timber] Cowboys Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

>>and "Cowboys Caravan".<<

I bought a copy of that book when it first came out. The neat thing was it also came with a real jump ticket for Cowboy's Caravan (tickets that Dave William's had printed up but never got to sell.)

NickD Smile


howardwhite  (C 3896)

Apr 19, 2008, 4:04 AM
Post #15 of 32 (4998 views)
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Re: [NickDG] Cowboys Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

Just as a reminder: there is another long thread here, fairly recent, where some of the same stuff has already come up.Smile

HW


bclark  (D 22626)

Apr 30, 2008, 8:35 PM
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Re: [NickDG] Cowboys Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

Just got a copy of "Cowboy's Caravan". You can still order it from Skyspec Publishing for $20.00. I got it today and read it from cover to cover this afternoon.

http://gemspec.com/_wsn/page3.html

This is a cool book to add to any skydiver's collection.


(This post was edited by bclark on Apr 30, 2008, 8:41 PM)


ericjump

Dec 17, 2011, 1:06 AM
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I remember jumping the Caravan at Jenkensburg, and lots of wonderful planes at Warm Springs, A friend of mine and myself went to Warm Springs on Saturday to jump a DC-3, (sugar Alpha I think). we were going to go to Jenkinsburg the next day and jump the Caravan, we got a little hammered that evening and wound up staying at Warm Springs. We heard about the crash on the way to altitude in the 3 the next day. I was at a small airport last week and ran into the guy who checked out the pilot who crashed the Caravan. He was supposed to fly that day but had to leave.


Krip  (Student)

Dec 19, 2011, 8:45 PM
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I remember reading about the incident in parachutist, at that time I thought the sugar in the fuel was confirmed/theory.

Did the FAA come up with a final conclusion that was different.

Remember I'm a old man so don't bitch at me for asking the same stupid question again.

Gotta take a nap. I'll be back if I wake upWink

R.


WGore  (D 3379)

Dec 20, 2011, 11:32 AM
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 The NTSB report says contaminated fuel and plugged fuel filter. IIRC the contaminate was water.
Sad thing was the airplane crashed in a field big enough to land in but apparently he tried to make it back to the airport and stalled.


Krip  (Student)

Dec 20, 2011, 8:44 PM
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In reply to:
The NTSB report says contaminated fuel and plugged fuel filter. IIRC the contaminate was water.
Sad thing was the airplane crashed in a field big enough to land in but apparently he tried to make it back to the airport and stalled.

Damn FrownFrownFrown

I'm not a pilot but the urge to turn around and try and make it back to the the airport has killed a lot of jumpers over the years.

WE had a DZO flying a beaver that had a fuel problem immediatly after T,O, we Later "heard" the fuel pump broke. The DZO had her A game on that day and kept on going straight ahead, landed in a cow pasture without a problem untill the front wheels sunk into the mud and the plane flipped onto it's back.

When we talked to the DZO the next weekend we gave her a attagirl for doing the right thingSmile Screw the airplane save the people!!! Smile

She told us about hearing two voices in her head. when the prop stoped turning.

Yes you can turrn around and make it, and no you can't. Lucky for everyone on board her training kicked in and she was able to ignore the urge to try and turn around but it was a tough battle,

Everyone was able to run away from the bird under their own power (no seatbelts). The plane was sold for parts.

Damn you cowboyMadMadMad

R







sunpooped


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Dec 20, 2011, 9:27 PM
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Re: [Krip] Cowboys Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Krip,

Quote:
WE had a DZO flying a beaver

Would that have been a yellow one by any chance?

When I first started jumping, we had a older pilot who told me about always going straight ahead and take whatever you have.

Trying to turn back is what killed all on board at Issaquah in the summer of '72; and that was with a jumper/pilot flying.

I lost a very close friend that day.Unsure

JerryBaumchen


Krip  (Student)

Dec 21, 2011, 12:11 AM
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] Cowboys Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hi Krip,

Quote:
WE had a DZO flying a beaver

Would that have been a yellow one by any chance?

When I first started jumping, we had a older pilot who told me about always going straight ahead and take whatever you have.

Trying to turn back is what killed all on board at Issaquah in the summer of '72; and that was with a jumper/pilot flying.

I lost a very close friend that day.Unsure

JerryBaumchen

Hi Jerry

I think we've all lost friends wihen the pilot listens to the wrong voice.In their head.

Every pilot I've ever talked to says go straight. I expect a Jump pilot to be current with all the T.O. and landings ea day to go thu their emergency procedures just like a jumper. I know Crazy

The beaver was from Kapow east Jesse was flying which was unusual.I got a pic somewhere of the pieces I'm thinking tellow with orange stripes om top of the wing, Don't quote me it might have gone to alaska .

The back seat was a hammick. Tight for for 3 jumpers. When the bird flipped a women in the left read position hit her potect on the back of the pilots one piece seat and broke it. the back of the seat. The protect saved her brain. I think she got a black eye out of it.


The worker bee pilot that usually the bird said he was very glad that when the rubber band broke the DZO was flyingTongue

He was current and would have done the same thing the DZO did but he didn;t have to hear any bitching about did you do this or that first.


NovaTTT  (D 17887)

Dec 22, 2011, 10:37 AM
Post #23 of 32 (3583 views)
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In reply to:
Damn you cowboyMadMadMad

R


Cowboy wasn't piloting, he was jumpmastering the load.


sunpooped


WGore  (D 3379)

Dec 22, 2011, 11:19 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
Damn you cowboyMadMadMad

R


Cowboy wasn't piloting, he was jumpmastering the load.

It has been a long time now and I knew the bulk of the folks on that airplane and one was a very close friend. There were some rumors that Cowboy was cutting corners on maintenance at the time. If true Cowboy sure paid the ultimate price along with 16 other folks. The pilot was green as well, had just been checked out. Typical accident where a number of factors come together fatally.
sunpooped


NovaTTT  (D 17887)

Dec 22, 2011, 11:39 AM
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Re: [WGore] Cowboys Caravan [In reply to] Can't Post

Given the clogged filter (sludge), regardless the fuel storage situation at WWSPC, I think it's a safe bet to speculate Cowboy was cutting corners. Unsure

And you're right about the links in a chain.

Where did that "sunpooped" come from? Crazy


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