Mar 30, 2008, 7:45 PM
Post #1 of 18
I am wondering why P.D. does not make the Vengeance is it due to bad openings? Or maybe it was just time for a change. I'm looking at a few different options for a different canopy and the Vengeance might be on my list. Let me know what you guys think.
I have understood that PD will make a vengeance if someone orders one..
I made <50 jumps on a vengeance and not one opening was bad at all. A little twichy yes, but never hard.
I liked the canopy. The only negative thing is that it can be a pain in the ass to get the air out of it once you have landed..
I think one of the reasons why PD stopped offering the VN could be that they have to pay licence payments to Brian Germain because of the airlock design.. Though this is just a guess, so I could be wrong here..
Well instead of guessing, I contacted the factory for the straight answer about the Vengence.
Basically the canopy wasn't a big seller and a much better canopy was released to take its place in the product lineup, the Katana. The factory still knows how to make the canopy, just like they know still know how to make a Sabre1, but that doesn't necessarily mean they'll make you one. Obviously they're still maintaining the canopies that people have purchased and have no plans to discontinue offering maintenance.
As for the airlock patents and royalties, as I understand it Germain invented the airlock, but he doesn't own the patent. Furthermore, I wouldn't think that PD would have discontinued a product simply due to royalties. Look at the Velocity, PD will make what people want regardless of the cost to manufacture the canopy; however, the cost will obviously be passed on to the consumer, which would be expected.
Ironically.........PD Manufactures the Big Air Sportz canopy line.
So if you order a Samurai which is what the Vengeance Design was based from, you are getting an Air Locked canopy, designed by Brian Germain and built by PD.
To me the Samurai is the better canopy anyway. The Line Trim set is different than the Vengeance which makes a Samuria a little more ground hungry than a Vengeance. The Samurai also had more of a Negative Recovery Arc than the Vengeance. For me.......That is the performance I wanted. I owned two Vengenace canopies and One Samurai and thought the Samurai was superior.
That is the straight scoop from a former Big Air Sportz Dealer........Me.
It just wasn't that good of a canopy. The Samurai was a far better option for anyone looking for Airlocks. The Katana is a far better option for someone looking for a good swooper that's more friendly than a Velocity.
Keep in mind that Big Air Sportz contracts with PD to build the Samurais - so PD gets paid no matter which airlocked canopy that somebody buys.
i have close to 1000 jumps on various size vengance. they are an awesome canopy. at the time they were the best stepping stone to the velo. i never chopped one, and had pretty consistant openings. they are a pain in the ass on windy days trying to gather up after landing. i loved having airlocks, whether or not i was safer i felt safer in turbulant conditions with airlocks. the canopy dives great and has awesome rear riser range! honestly its a shame they dont make the veng any longer. good news is you can get used ones super cheap becuz they arent that desired. i flew a 135 and a 120 then went to the velo 96. it was a very smooth transistion. the velo was obviously different but to be honest it didnt feel all that un familiar after so many jumps on my veng. now that the katana and xcrss2 are out there it they have dominated the market. but imo the veng has qualities you just cant get from any other wing besides the big air sports airlocked samurai.
i cant disagree more. i think you will find that people that have put a good amount of jumps on the veng have alot of good things to say about em. most nay sayers either put only a couple jumps on the veng or never jumped one. they were a great canopy. the openings at the time where consistant with most of pds products of that generation. pd's are not exactly known for outstanding openings.
I agree with him.........I owned both a Vengeance 120 and a Samurai 120, put about 200 on the Vengeance and 400 on the Samurai. I thought the Samurai was a MUCH Better canopy, in just about every aspect.
There are some vengeances with a tendency to open off-heading, I love my 135 and a 135 and a 120 I borrow sometimes, I jumped another 135 that always opened in a left turn... If I didn't wingsuit and they didn't pack so big I'd fly a vengeance still.