Forums: Skydiving: Skydiving History & Trivia:
DB Cooper

 

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ltdiver  (D 20506)

Feb 8, 2008, 12:56 PM
Post #126 of 52765 (32536 views)
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Re: [Orange1] Cooper Coda [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
ok... so has anyone used that location to try track the flight path, rather than working backwards from where the money was found and how it may or may not have got there?

Without knowing in very fine detail the winds aloft, the final resting place of the placard is meaningless. It could have drifted, blown by the winds, for miles from where it departed the aircraft.

all of which arguments are true to some extent in trying to figure out where cooper landed or how the money landed?

Placard---Flutter...flip...flutter...flip...flutter....land...swish...flip...blow....

Cooper---Swoosh....Crumple....Ouch!

Money bag----Thunk.

Or something like that...Tongue

ltdiver


Sluggo_Monster

Feb 8, 2008, 5:15 PM
Post #127 of 52765 (32483 views)
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Re: [nigel99] Cooper Coda [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
.... then what is the elevation of the DZ - people say it is rugged is it 1 or 2 thousand feet ASL meaning an 8-9k AGL potential exit?

Nigel99,

Give me an e-mail address (not this site PM) to send them and I will send you he following hi-res USGS TOPOs that cover the FBI original DZ:

Ariel Quadrangle North.jpg (1,867 KB)
Ariel Quadrangle South.jpg (1,741 KB)
Woodland Quadrangle North.jpg (1,929 KB)
Woodland Quadrangle South.jpg (1,958 KB)
Seamless Hot Zone North.jpg (2,698 KB)
Seamless Hot Zone South.jpg (2,629 KB)

The Ariel Quad is the East Part if the Hot Zone, The Woodland Quad is the West part of the hot zone. The seamless maps are the North and South parts of both quads.

This way you can pick a spot and know the elevation (within 40 feet). These are all I have on my laptop (I’m on the road tonight). If you need other areas, I can get them for you when I get home (Monday). I have all the USGS 1:100,000 and 1:24,000 maps of Oregon and Washington. These are much better than the MapTech Topos.

Send me an e-mail address by PM, e-mail, or post here and tell me which ones you want. I’ll send them immediately. My private e-mail is: walkertrain at hotmail dot com

This offer is extended to all.

Sluggo_Monster


skyjack71

Feb 8, 2008, 7:07 PM
Post #128 of 52765 (32444 views)
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Phone Conversation w/Carr [In reply to] Can't Post

I called Carr to see if he was reading the thread - he stated that he had not He stated he can only provide information from the file and he is not actively investigating the case.

He again asked me to send what I had on Duane in the way of records - which I am doing. But, he also told me that the only way I can prove Duane was Cooper is to put him on the plane...I asked how him how I am supposed to do that. His reply - ticket or witness. There is only one way for me to get a witness - that is to confront Tina and Florence myself with the correct photos - age appropriate.

I have asked myself - how I could get them to view photos without actually intruding myself into their lives - and there is no way..I would think this to be the job of the FBI.

I only know one other way to put Duane on that plane . We are aware that more conversation took place between Duane and the Stewardess than we originally thought - such as the grudge question.

SmileThere was other conversation between the two of them - she was asking him questions as trained to do and dealing with her own fear, but at the same time learning something about the skyjacker. Now, I have to go deep within Duane and try to think what he might have said to her. He was being a little cocky, but sad with his answer as per the 'grudge" thing. Today I realized that I have forgotten so much about him - trying to recall metaphors he may have used.

Duane and his wife had supposedly broken up - two of her son's lived in the WA/OR area. She was the female version of himself. What would he have told Tina about her and other things in his life without revealing something that would lead the FBI to his doorstep if he survived.

CoolI need for you guys to pretend I am Cooper and you are the stewardess - fire questions at me - I will try to answer the way I think Duane would have answered. Please be kind and earnest with the questions - Remember that Tina was a good catholic girl of 20. Ask your daughter or wives if they were in Tina's place what would they ask...perhaps by doing this I will provide the FBI with the answer that will put him on the plane...I refuse to use vugarities and will replace them with the appropriate number of x's with a first letter.

ATTENTION CARR: If no such conversation happened then please let me know as there is no need to put me thru a grueling session that might not be necessary...

Ready when you are guy and gals.

(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Feb 8, 2008, 7:14 PM)


Sluggo_Monster

Feb 9, 2008, 6:00 AM
Post #129 of 52765 (32392 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Phone Conversation w/Carr [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
From skyjack71 -
she was asking him questions as trained to do and dealing with her own fear

Skyjack71,

When I get home (Monday), I’ll put on my thinking cap and see what I can come up with.

I have an old friend that I have only communicated with once in the last thirty years. I had her contact information in 2002 and we sent each other a few e-mails, so maybe it’s still good. She was a United Airlines Cabin Attendant in the late sixties (64 – 70). I will try to contact her and find out if they received any “special training” to handle hijackers. Maybe she knows about the kind of questions that would be asked.

However, remember, in 1971 there had been very few (if any) domestic hijackings. The training might have been related more to the “Fly this plane to Cuba” type of hijacking.

Later,

Sluggo_Monster


(This post was edited by Sluggo_Monster on Feb 9, 2008, 6:02 AM)


Albert18

Feb 9, 2008, 10:12 AM
Post #130 of 52765 (32358 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Phone Conversation w/Carr [In reply to] Can't Post

The only way the FBI is going to believe Duane was on that plane is if they can match a fingerprint. Does the FBI have known fingerprints of Duane and have they compared them to their fingerprints from the plane? Since we don't have these fingerprints, the FBI must do this.

The way I see it, the FBI isn't going to solve this case unless somebody comes up with a man and a substantial amount of evidence against the guy. Since we don't have the fingerprints from the plane, I don't know how anybody can get enough evidence to convince the FBI to really look at somebody.

Here is where I think the FBI is with this case today.

Cooper must have died when he jumped because they didn't find him and they didn't find him because he died in the jump. If he had lived they would have gotten him like McCoy.

I don't know how anybody can argue with that logic.

So if anybody comes forward with a suspect who didn't die in 1971, then I don't think they are interested.


airtwardo  (D License)

Feb 9, 2008, 10:31 AM
Post #131 of 52765 (32348 views)
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Re: [Albert18] Phone Conversation w/Carr [In reply to] Can't Post

So if anybody comes forward with a suspect who didn't die in 1971, then I don't think they are interested.

In reply to:

'71 huh...Cooper must have been Jim Morrison or Nikita Khrushchev! ShockedWink


SkydiveJack  (D 6486)

Feb 9, 2008, 10:48 AM
Post #132 of 52765 (32347 views)
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Re: [airtwardo] Phone Conversation w/Carr [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So if anybody comes forward with a suspect who didn't die in 1971, then I don't think they are interested.

In reply to:

'71 huh...Cooper must have been Jim Morrison or Nikita Khrushchev! ShockedWink

What about you Twardo? Your avitar has me thinking.

Wink


airtwardo  (D License)

Feb 9, 2008, 11:15 AM
Post #133 of 52765 (32343 views)
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Re: [SkydiveJack] Phone Conversation w/Carr [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
So if anybody comes forward with a suspect who didn't die in 1971, then I don't think they are interested.

In reply to:

'71 huh...Cooper must have been Jim Morrison or Nikita Khrushchev! ShockedWink

What about you Twardo? Your avitar has me thinking.

Wink

So.....how 'bout dem Cubs?! AngelicBlushWink


Orange1  (B 2638)

Feb 9, 2008, 12:29 PM
Post #134 of 52765 (32332 views)
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Re: [Albert18] Phone Conversation w/Carr [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The only way the FBI is going to believe Duane was on that plane is if they can match a fingerprint. Does the FBI have known fingerprints of Duane and have they compared them to their fingerprints from the plane? Since we don't have these fingerprints, the FBI must do this.

Jo seems convinced Duane managed to have his fingerprint records altered so she wouldn't accept that anyway. She has various reasons why she doesn't accept the DNA evidence either. etc

I have seen no evidence anywhere that Duane ever had the amount of money to hand that was involved in the hijacking. There was something about a few thousand dollars somewhere but that could well have been from some far more 'minor' crime.

The only suspect I have seen mentioned who appears to have come into a substantial amount of money (buying property etc) was Christiansen, and the FBI has dismissed him as the physical description doesn't fit the profile. There was speculation about Mayfield but he didn't appear to have actually bought the property as originally thought.

No body, no money... i'm beginning to think the theories about Cooper going in and someone else finding him, burying the body/leaving it to the vultures and taking the money are the most likely.


skyjack71

Feb 9, 2008, 2:02 PM
Post #135 of 52765 (32311 views)
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Re: [Albert18] Phone Conversation w/Carr [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The only way the FBI is going to believe Duane was on that plane is if they can match a fingerprint. Does the FBI have known fingerprints of Duane and have they compared them to their fingerprints from the plane? Since we don't have these fingerprints, the FBI must do this.

SmileThey have not to my knowledge retrieved the other prints from the massive warehouse in WA that would contain prints prior to Jefferson State Prison 9 he was there on a Felony charge). I guess they lost those also - just like the cigarette butts.

Please, guys - fire the questions that Tina may have ask - if I can't answer it - will just reference that answer as "Don't know".


skyjack71

Feb 9, 2008, 2:43 PM
Post #136 of 52765 (32289 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] This Message is for CKRET [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
As some of you know I have been seaching for a man known as Ed Horan and that he had connections to Duane and MT,ID,WA and OR.

ATTENTION JUMPERS: Do you know this name - would have been born prior to 1924.
FRANK ROACH. or
J. R. ROACH

Roach, Horan and Weber - are connected.
Mr. FBI are you listening?

I recieved an email or pm from someone in the forum stating they were familiar with Frank Roach...I was feeling poorly and was going to answer it another time. Please recontact me..........

(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Feb 9, 2008, 3:01 PM)


DBCOOPER  (D 24112)

Feb 9, 2008, 6:16 PM
Post #137 of 52765 (32261 views)
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Re: [quade] DB Cooper [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Have the indictment of Dan Cooper pulled so he can come in from the cold.

And how would the judicial system deal with the flood of people that would simply claim to have been DB Cooper in order to become rich or go down in history? How would they deal with the delusional ones living out a fantasy life that might actually think they are DB Cooper?

Was that a personal attack?Tongue


skyjack71

Feb 9, 2008, 8:29 PM
Post #138 of 52765 (32237 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] This Message is for CKRET [In reply to] Can't Post

[replyATTENTION JUMPERS: Do you know this name - would have been born prior to 1924.
FRANK ROACH. or
J. R. ROACH
Roach, Horan and Weber - are connected.
Mr. FBI are you listening?
Should this site be trashed for any reason what-so- ever - -------DROPZONE participants - I still need your help. You can direct the questions or any information you think might help me to Homes4ubyjo@aol.com


Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Feb 9, 2008, 9:59 PM
Post #139 of 52765 (32222 views)
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Re: [DBCOOPER] DB Cooper [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Was that a personal attack?Tongue

Only if the loafers fit . . . too bad they were never recovered or we could do a Cinderella on you to find out. Wink


Sluggo_Monster

Feb 11, 2008, 11:01 AM
Post #140 of 52765 (32085 views)
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Where is everybody? [In reply to] Can't Post

Uh… uh… Hello…ello…llo..o

HELLO… ELLO… LO…o

Anybody out there?… here…. ere… e

Mummm… I guess nobody’s there.


winsor  (D 13715)

Feb 11, 2008, 11:17 AM
Post #141 of 52765 (32076 views)
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Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

People who do not spend much time outdoors tend to discount how bad the elements can be. These people include both posters here and those who would jump blindly into the elements while wearing traveling clothes.

This guy:

clicky

was in better shape than Cooper - at least as far as knowing where he was and proximity to help was concerned - but it did not do him much good.

If Cooper survived, it was not due to careful planning or a clear picture of what he faced.


Blue skies,

Winsor


(This post was edited by winsor on Feb 11, 2008, 11:18 AM)


377  (F 666)

Feb 11, 2008, 2:12 PM
Post #142 of 52765 (32030 views)
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Re: [winsor] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

Somewhere there are tables published on survival time before hypothermia disables you. If Cooper was wet (very likely) then heat transfer out of his body would go faster. I don't know of any experienced skydivers who would make Cooper's jump in the clothes we think Cooper wore. The apparent lack of planning (garb and shoes) is hard to reconcile with any assumptions about Cooper being an expereinced jumper, military or civilian. Either that or he planned to exit right after takeoff, be picked up in minutes and then clothes wouldn't matter so much.


Sluggo_Monster

Feb 11, 2008, 3:19 PM
Post #143 of 52765 (32011 views)
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Re: [377] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

Based on a PM I got, I started thinking; “exactly what was the terrain like along the flight path? And, how can it be best represented?”

So, I have produced a profile of the track that I think Flight 305 took that night. It is the centerline of Victor 23. It’s designed to be interactive, so it doesn’t translate to a still image very well. The vertical scale is 0 to 2500 feet. So the peaks are way out of proportion to the ground track.

It begins at SEA-TAC on the left and ends at the RAWER Fix just south of Portland. The red crosshatched areas are maps that are off the disk (I haven’t figured out how to merge two disks yet), but that is south of the area of interest for most folks. Goble Mountain and Schumaker Mountain are flagged. The high peak at about 50 miles out is an unnamed peak about 4 miles south of the Thurston County - Lewis County line. It is 5.3 miles SE (143 deg True) from the center of the Skookumchuck Reservoir.

The important thing to notice is that the first 40 miles is pretty mild terrain, the next 75 is pretty severe, and the last 25 or 30 are very flat and mostly free of trees.

He may well have wanted to jump very near the airport (SEA), but I don’t think that was much of a plan if he did. The 1st 20 miles (SEA to Parkland) the plane would spend some of that climbing to 10,000 feet. The rest would put him over McChord AFB. The next 11.2 miles is from Parkland to the end of property that is part of Fort Lewis. Then the next 12.3 miles is from the edge of Ft. Lewis to around the Lawrence Lake/Reichel Lake area. So the 1st 21.2 miles offers urban areas and military bases as possible DZs. I don’t think he would have gotten away with that (if that was his plan). The last 12.3 miles of that first 33.5 would be mostly rural farmland. This might have been his original plan.

The next 81 miles is really inhospitable. This is the kind of terrain that most people think he jumped over. Then there’s that 23 miles (or so) that I think he jumped over. It is level (mostly) and in 1971 almost all farmland. The BTG VOR is 120 miles out on this track (it is shown right above the digits “120” as a tiny blue bubble on the profile. That’s where I think he jumped. Not by choice, but by chance.

BTW: That jump would have occurred at 2013 PST (using the FBI’s timeline).
Attachments: SEA-RAWER Track Profile.jpg (98.5 KB)


1969912

Feb 11, 2008, 7:46 PM
Post #144 of 52765 (31961 views)
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Re: [Sluggo_Monster] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

You're right about the terrain. Most of that area is quite flat. The link below is to a Wikimapia map centered on the BTG VOR (zoom in and you can see the VOR calibration/test antennas around the building). Ariel, WA is due North. Victor 23 runs into BTG from 329 degrees North, which is ~parallel to I-5 between La Center and the I-205 junction. Click "view" at upper left to change view to terrain/satellite, etc.

Second link is to photos of the Fargher Lake area, which is just right of center at the top of the Wikimapia map. The terrain at Fargher Lake is very typical for that area.

http://wikimapia.org/...;l=0&m=h&v=2


http://www.lewisriver.com/...llery/2005-misc.html

FWIW


(This post was edited by 1969912 on Feb 11, 2008, 8:14 PM)


skyjack71

Feb 11, 2008, 10:58 PM
Post #145 of 52765 (31925 views)
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Re: [1969912] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You're right about the terrain. Most of that area is quite flat

SmileFirst time I seen a map I can read - wish I could keep the map and and type in the area I am talking about and had a way to zoom in on the road - would be great if someone had something like this for 1979 - I believe I could go right to those towers.

I just did it and I deleted it -

(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Feb 11, 2008, 11:09 PM)


skyjack71

Feb 11, 2008, 11:07 PM
Post #146 of 52765 (31921 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

I felt it was not safe to leave this post up - so I deleted it - GOD why am I sick I need to go to WA. now - I just hope the area I pinpointed with in a 10 mile area is not developed - afraid to say too much on line because a man called me today who is ruthless and he keeps trying to get me to tell him how to find Tina - he lies to me in every breath -- he bugged me in 2003 and suddenly calls out of the blue again - said this was the number he called - got news I didn't use this number until 6 months ago when I let you guy have it - so he is postng here. On the phone he told me he was an attorney - - I don't believe that for one moment. Before when I checked him out he was using a calling card and the address he gave me was not correct. I did find out his home number thru an investigator and left him a message at his home...never heard from him again until today.

He acted like he was unaware of Mayfield - that is baloney - how can you live in that area and not be aware of Mayfield? I believe I know now which poster he is...and I told him lots in a pm - need to learn when to shut my mouth - right. Obviously this man will stoop to anything including badgering a girl who doesn't want to talk to the media - perhaps he needs to watch the new clip from 1971 when Tina got off that plane - let me assure you she was traumatized. The last thing she need is someone like him in her face.

(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Feb 11, 2008, 11:25 PM)


1969912

Feb 11, 2008, 11:51 PM
Post #147 of 52765 (31911 views)
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Re: [skyjack71] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
You're right about the terrain. Most of that area is quite flat

SmileFirst time I seen a map I can read - wish I could keep the map and and type in the area I am talking about and had a way to zoom in on the road - would be great if someone had something like this for 1979 - I believe I could go right to those towers.

I just did it and I deleted it -


If you are asking how to keep the map, just add it to your "bookmarks" (might be called "favorite places" or something in Windows Internet Explorer). To open that map again just click on it in your bookmarks or favorites list. The map will open to the same zoom, etc. as when you saved it. Not sure if that helps.

If you can give me a general idea of where to look, I can search the satellite images for the pipes and/or wires. There are several places where big powerlines cross.

This may help you get your bearings when looking at the map: At one time you mentioned thein Vancouver Red Lion Inn, which is right beside I-5. It's offficially called "Red Lion Hotel Vancouver at the Quay". The link below is to a map centered right on the hotel, and you can see I-5 on the right. Downtown Vancouver is pretty much due North. Just zoom out as needed and follow the river. When you want to save the map, just add the current view (webpage) to your bookmarks/favorites. The zoom and location will be saved. If you look at the actual URL in the little box at the top of your web browser (example: http://wikimapia.org/#lat=45.622052&lon=-122.675094&z....), you can see that the lat/long coordinates, zoom, etc. are in the URL. As you scroll/zoom around those numbers will change, and when you bookmark/favorite a map view, the URL is what gets saved.

Red Lion: http://wikimapia.org/...;l=0&m=h&v=2

Not sure if this is of any help, but hope so....


skyjack71

Feb 12, 2008, 2:45 AM
Post #148 of 52765 (31904 views)
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Re: [1969912] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't need anything on the Columbia - but I know I need to go to WA. or find authorities and people who can be trusted to let me direct them to the place -with cameras relaying back to me I will know when we find the place...somehow this should be able to be set up...I cannot fly right now except at very low altitudes and I have very serious tests scheduled that have to be done. None of this will prove that Duane is Cooper unless we find some evidence of whatever he buried there.

I found some old black and white copied totography maps I had, but no details of roads or terrain. I estimate he had about 2 miles to walk from one landmark and much further to reach the other points all with a landmarks. Unbelievable he was able to do this and the FBI not spot him - if I pinpoint it on a map then someone with the forestry dept records should be able to tell us what was there in 1979 and 1971. Also - when was the tower taken out as it wasn't there in 1979. This is going to answer a LOT of question.

I can't explain the FBI's DNA and fingerprint expertise - but my Gut told me that no man would fabricate this on his deathbed and have told another person many things over a period of yrs that in themselves meant nothing at all but that the sum total of these is the story of Dan Cooper. My desperate prayers where heard on this 11th day of Feb 2008. I have come from the lowest point in my life early this evening to the realization that nothing is impossible with God. When I went so low today was after a phone call from the man who has badgered me in the past - and my therapy after my talk with God was to write to Tina - a letter that I would never mail...and then this map shows up tonight - God does answer prayers.

I realize that we may find nothing - but I will know I stayed the course and did my best.

(This post was edited by skyjack71 on Feb 12, 2008, 2:48 AM)


Albert18

Feb 12, 2008, 8:31 AM
Post #149 of 52765 (31852 views)
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Re: [1969912] Cooper vs. the Elements [In reply to] Can't Post

Boy, that area around Fargher Lake looks like some vicious country doesn't it.

When you look at all the farmland along the flightpath in this area, you start to understand why the FBI needed such strong winds blowing him to the east/northeast and for him to open his chute the instant he jumped.


skyjack71

Feb 12, 2008, 10:13 PM
Post #150 of 52765 (31765 views)
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Re: [377] DB Cooper [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
, How do you get from a wilderness jump (or farmland jump) and blend back in when there is so much news circulating? Every guy who looked wet and disheveled was a suspect that night.

There was a cabin on the Columbia - owned by an individual who didn't live there.


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