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Advice for an AFF Student RE: Early flare

 


hechz  (Student)

Jan 28, 2008, 2:28 PM
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Advice for an AFF Student RE: Early flare Can't Post

've just made my third jump this past weekend. On my final jump of the day I flared way too early (20-30 ft.), but was lucky enough to recover. I still landed REALLY hard, but wasn't hurt. I was fixated on where I was landing as I had another skydiver directly in front of my intended landing target, and a wind-sock on the other side.

What is the best way recovery procedure from an early flare? I didn't really know what to do, I got lucky.

/I am planning on discussing this more with my instructor


MarkM  (C 35089)

Jan 28, 2008, 2:44 PM
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Re: [hechz] Advice for an AFF Student RE: Early flare [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I am planning on discussing this more with my instructor

Pretty much your best option.

No one here knows your training, what you're flying, your capabilities, what the terrain conditions are where you're at, etc etc. So any advice we give you can be off and you don't really know enough to filter the poor or situational advice from the good.

But if you walked away, you did something right, and everyone biffs it in now and then, so don't sweat the hard landings.


Superfletch  (D 26145)

Jan 28, 2008, 3:12 PM
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Re: [hechz] Advice for an AFF Student RE: Early flare [In reply to] Can't Post

If you find that you have fully flared your canopy way to high, let up your flare to your shoulders and then finish your flare at the correct altitude. Then prepare to PLF because you are probably going to NEED to.

If you start to flare and don't get passed your shoulder below 20 feet but still too high, don't continue your flare. Just hold what you've got and then FINISH it at the correct altitude and prepare to PLF.

If you start your flare above 20 feet and catch yourself before you go past your shoulders, you will probably be able to go back to full arm extension and do a proper flare at the correct altitude.

As you previously stated however, you should sit down and talk to your instructor. You may wish to put a radio back on and receive additional help but your instructor will make these decisions.


diablopilot  (D License)

Jan 28, 2008, 3:18 PM
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Re: [hechz] Advice for an AFF Student RE: Early flare [In reply to] Can't Post

Stop looking down at where you think your feet are going to hit and you'll have less trouble with flaring high at all.

If you do find yourself flaring high (20 to 30 foot range) pause in your flare, then use the remaining toggle stroke to cushion your landing and prepare to PLF. It should not be all that "hard" a landing if you're on appropriately sized canopies.

If you flare high (20 to 30 foot range) do not "give back" the flare. The canopy will surge and you'll likely not be aware enough to pull the canopy out of the resulting dive.


hechz  (Student)

Jan 28, 2008, 3:19 PM
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Thanks very much for the advice!


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Jan 28, 2008, 3:45 PM
Post #6 of 18 (1759 views)
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Re: [hechz] Advice for an AFF Student RE: Early flare [In reply to] Can't Post

>What is the best way recovery procedure from an early flare?

Low (10 feet or so) - hold the flare, prepare to PLF.

Medium (30-50 feet) - go to half brakes, flare fully at 10 feet, prepare to PLF.

That's what we teach. Your instructor may have a different angle.


Premier faulknerwn  (D 17441)
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Jan 28, 2008, 5:22 PM
Post #7 of 18 (1729 views)
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Re: [hechz] Advice for an AFF Student RE: Early flare [In reply to] Can't Post

And to avoid an early flare, I always tell folks that if you see the ground rushing up at you, say 3 oh shits and then flare :-) I was told by a military instructor that the military puts their jump towers at 34 feet because that is the general altitude most people start getting "ground rush"... So if you expect that, its easier to wait and flare correctly...


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jan 29, 2008, 6:42 AM
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Re: [Superfletch] Advice for an AFF Student RE: Early flare [In reply to] Can't Post

I disagree.
Letting toggles up - any more than belt level - starts a complex series of pendulum motions that consume lots of altitude.
It is far simpler to simply continue holding your toggles low and clamp your legs together in preparation to PLF.

Oh! And humans are notoriously bad at eyeballing altitude, so you really should discuss this with the instructor who watched your last landing.


chrismgtis  (B 32561)

Jan 29, 2008, 11:36 AM
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Re: [hechz] Advice for an AFF Student RE: Early flare [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
've just made my third jump this past weekend. On my final jump of the day I flared way too early (20-30 ft.), but was lucky enough to recover. I still landed REALLY hard, but wasn't hurt.

Are you on radio? I don't know if they do this at all drop zones, but at ours we are put on radio through AFF and given instructions under canopy. The instructors can tell you when to flare this way and it makes it a lot easier to start learning where to flare as a new jumper with no previous experience doing so.


hechz  (Student)

Jan 29, 2008, 12:40 PM
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Re: [chrismgtis] Advice for an AFF Student RE: Early flare [In reply to] Can't Post

We do this too. My first few jumps were directed. On this one my instructor asked me if I wanted to flare on my own. I confirmed it, and just immediately flared. I think I just heard "flare" and reacted.


chrismgtis  (B 32561)

Jan 29, 2008, 12:58 PM
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Re: [hechz] Advice for an AFF Student RE: Early flare [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
We do this too. My first few jumps were directed. On this one my instructor asked me if I wanted to flare on my own. I confirmed it, and just immediately flared. I think I just heard "flare" and reacted.

Well now that you're not being told to flare, remember not to look straight down. It's a lot like driving, you want to look so far ahead of you. It will take practice to get the timing right. I had a lot of a crazy landings. I only started to finally get the hang of being more consistent around 40+ jumps. Smile And I still can't promise you I will stand it up. Though I do a lot more now.


(This post was edited by chrismgtis on Jan 29, 2008, 12:59 PM)


hechz  (Student)

Jan 29, 2008, 1:23 PM
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Re: [chrismgtis] Advice for an AFF Student RE: Early flare [In reply to] Can't Post

I had one face plant on my first solo landing, glided neatly to a stop and walked to gather my canopy on my second, and then flared early on the third. What's funny is that I didn't even realize I was being told when to flare the first two times.


(This post was edited by hechz on Jan 29, 2008, 4:49 PM)


JohnDeere  (D License)

Jan 29, 2008, 6:46 PM
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Re: [hechz] Advice for an AFF Student RE: Early flare [In reply to] Can't Post

Go to your instructor and ask why he did not talk to you about this after that jump during debreif. This is not a sport where an instructor should jump expect that you learned your lesson.


AFFI  (D 25538)

Jan 29, 2008, 10:34 PM
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Re: [riggerrob] Advice for an AFF Student RE: Early flare [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Letting toggles up - any more than belt level - starts a complex series of pendulum motions that consume lots of altitude.
It is far simpler to simply continue holding your toggles low and clamp your legs together in preparation to PLF.

Oh! And you really should discuss this with the instructor who watched your last landing.

Keep in mind that there can be additional factors to consider. At 30 feet holding deep brakes can stall some canopies that students are jumping these days.

The best advice that keeps ringing through is what da rigger man said, talk to the instructors that are training you personally.

Bring back the big Mantas


hechz  (Student)

Jan 30, 2008, 12:43 PM
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Re: [JohnDeere] Advice for an AFF Student RE: Early flare [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh we talked about it, but I wanted to get some other viewpoints on how to avoid locking in on the ground. Also was hoping to hear that it was pretty common. I did get that so I don't feel as bad for making the mistake in the first place. I now have to take what my instructor, and others, have said to heart.


JohnDeere  (D License)

Jan 30, 2008, 5:54 PM
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Re: [hechz] Advice for an AFF Student RE: Early flare [In reply to] Can't Post

Didnt know your instructor had talked to you about it.


AFFI  (D 25538)

Jan 31, 2008, 7:11 AM
Post #17 of 18 (1343 views)
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Re: [hechz] Advice for an AFF Student RE: Early flare [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I now have to take what my instructor, have said to heart.

There, fixed it for ya...


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jan 31, 2008, 9:10 AM
Post #18 of 18 (1334 views)
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Re: [AFFI] Advice for an AFF Student RE: Early flare [In reply to] Can't Post

At 30 feet holding deep brakes can stall some canopies that students are jumping these days.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>...

That canopy should be taken out of service until the brake lines have been lengthened.

First jump students should never be allowed to jump canopies that can be stalled during a poorly-timed flare.
Far fewer injuries occur while sliding forward (weak flare) than when falling backwards (stalled).



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