Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch?

 

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hackish  (No License)

Jan 14, 2008, 8:26 AM
Post #1 of 71 (2011 views)
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Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? Can't Post

I've found out that my reserve has 2 tiny holes in it. They are below the minimum size for requiring a patch and are in the top skin away from a rib or any other high stress area. I'm just wondering what the general opinion is on having these two holes patched. One is about 1/8" square and the other is about 1/16" and they are about 3" apart.

-Michael


bigway

Jan 14, 2008, 8:31 AM
Post #2 of 71 (2001 views)
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Re: [hackish] Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? [In reply to] Can't Post

What did your rigger say?


marinho  (D 26345)

Jan 14, 2008, 8:35 AM
Post #3 of 71 (1995 views)
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Re: [hackish] Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've found out that my reserve has 2 tiny holes in it. They are below the minimum size for requiring a patch and are in the top skin away from a rib or any other high stress area. I'm just wondering what the general opinion is on having these two holes patched. One is about 1/8" square and the other is about 1/16" and they are about 3" apart.

-Michael

I suggest you to contact the manufacturer of your container. I truly believe only them can answer your question.
Cheers,


frost  (D 25011)

Jan 14, 2008, 8:51 AM
Post #4 of 71 (1981 views)
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Re: [marinho] Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I suggest you to contact the manufacturer of your container. I truly believe only them can answer your question.
What does a container manufacturer know about reserves?


Gawain  (D 29213)

Jan 14, 2008, 8:57 AM
Post #5 of 71 (1968 views)
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Re: [frost] Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I suggest you to contact the manufacturer of your container. I truly believe only them can answer your question.
What does a container manufacturer know about reserves?

Reserves are packed in accordance with the container manufacturer's instructions, that is the prevailing guidance.


marinho  (D 26345)

Jan 14, 2008, 8:57 AM
Post #6 of 71 (1967 views)
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Re: [frost] Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I suggest you to contact the manufacturer of your container. I truly believe only them can answer your question.
What does a container manufacturer know about reserves?

Ooops, I thought I read reserve PCBlush. You're right! Still, contact the manufacturer!!!


AMT

Jan 14, 2008, 9:16 AM
Post #7 of 71 (1941 views)
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Re: [hackish] Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? [In reply to] Can't Post

I would hold it up to a light and look at the fabric weave, if the threads are pushed aside but not damaged the rigger could probably work them back into order. If the threads are damaged or the holes were caused by friction, (my LoPos seemed to suffer from this), then being a reserve it should probably be repaired as stress from fabric tension will concentrate on the edges of the holes possibly causing the damage to propagate, I assume the air flowing through the hole during deployment would also contribute to tearing.


bigway

Jan 14, 2008, 9:21 AM
Post #8 of 71 (1936 views)
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Re: [hackish] Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? [In reply to] Can't Post

MAte, personally, i know that there will be a more logic explanation of what to do than what i am about to say but seriously.. If my Reserve had a hole in it i would get a new reserve.

To me the reserve is the last line of defence and i would not want a reserve with a patsh on it or a hole in it. I know it is a bit drastic but it is a reserve and i like to feel good about my reserve.


So many people have got these aerodyne 35$ off vouchers from the eloy boogie, they were given away for free to everyone who attended. I would suggest to get one of those and buy a new one while donating this one to a school or childrens centre.


councilman24  (D 8631)

Jan 14, 2008, 9:32 AM
Post #9 of 71 (1925 views)
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Re: [bigway] Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? [In reply to] Can't Post

Man, do you get a new car when you need brake pads?

Or do you work for PD?Tongue

There is a reason the manufacturer allows patches. It OKAY!

Sure unlimited funds I might do the same, for absolutely no good reason.Angelic

And instead of giving to a school he should give it to me so I'd have another reserve to jump.Wink


hackish  (No License)

Jan 14, 2008, 9:33 AM
Post #10 of 71 (1918 views)
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Re: [bigway] Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? [In reply to] Can't Post

I am not concerned about the reserve functioning patched or unpatched. The largest hole is exactly 1 ripstop square which if you look at the rules for patching does not "require" a patch. I understand how you feel about it but being into the technical end of things I do not feel the same way.

Probably the largest influence on how the reserve does its job is going to be how well it is packed and don't worry I'll pack that sucker up carefully! Maybe this weekend if i go and pack it again I'll snap some photos.

-Michael


bigway

Jan 14, 2008, 9:51 AM
Post #11 of 71 (1901 views)
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Re: [councilman24] Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? [In reply to] Can't Post

no but i am a distributor.

The reserve is my most valued and looked after asset. If it is in any way not up to new standards then i personally would buy a new one.

just me.


diablopilot  (D License)

Jan 14, 2008, 9:51 AM
Post #12 of 71 (1900 views)
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Re: [hackish] Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've be very concerned about finding out why the reserve has damage.


bigway

Jan 14, 2008, 9:54 AM
Post #13 of 71 (1895 views)
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Re: [hackish] Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? [In reply to] Can't Post

my safire 2 has 2 little holes that are one rip stop each and i have just left them. They were caused by a thorn bush.


freefalle  (D 27777)

Jan 14, 2008, 10:35 AM
Post #14 of 71 (1846 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've be very concerned about finding out why the reserve has damage.

Damn skippy. GENERALLY speaking reserves get ripped during careless repack


bigway

Jan 14, 2008, 10:59 AM
Post #15 of 71 (1828 views)
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Re: [freefalle] Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? [In reply to] Can't Post

This is my point. People say do you buy a new car when it gets a dent.... I say i would not be happy with a reserve with holes in it cause i dont know how it has been treated. Personally i look after my gear so it does not get holes in it and if it did get holes in it from my rigger then ..... well, i dont know actually, the last thing i want to do is fuck my rigger off.

Funny thing is i only started looking after my gear so good when i was the muppet who had to walk around with a rig that had a cigarette hole in it from my bad habit.


Actually, that reminds me off my instructor showing me how to pack, while he was standing over a canopy on the ground he had the smoke hanging from his mouth and telling us at the same time to never smoke around a canopy.Laugh real old school guy.


hackish  (No License)

Jan 14, 2008, 11:41 AM
Post #16 of 71 (1794 views)
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Re: [bigway] Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? [In reply to] Can't Post

The holes were burned in it by a closing loop that was cut from the back as an experiment for a skydiving mag article that came out a number of years ago. All the gear is in really good shape save this little problem.

-Michael


AMT

Jan 14, 2008, 12:33 PM
Post #17 of 71 (1757 views)
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Re: [bigway] Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
>MAte, personally, i know that there will be a more logic explanation of what to do than what i am about to say but seriously.. If my Reserve had a hole in it i would get a new reserve<



Feel free to correct my logic: if your reserve is constructed by being sewn together then why would you fear a sewn patch that probably wont be larger than 2 inches?

If the reserve was "burned" through by the closing loop with only a 1/8" hole, it would probably last forever, but its still a hole, and I see no logical reason not to repair it.


FrEaK_aCcIdEnT  (B License)

Jan 14, 2008, 12:39 PM
Post #18 of 71 (1752 views)
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Re: [hackish] Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? [In reply to] Can't Post

I know this is a dumb question and by no means am I a rigger, so don't hose me to bad here.

Can you push your thumb through it? you know, the old rigger's thumb test.

I would think that would be a decent indication as to whether it needed a patch or not.


bigway

Jan 14, 2008, 1:14 PM
Post #19 of 71 (1727 views)
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Re: [AMT] Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? [In reply to] Can't Post

Its personal taste mate. I like new stuff.

Everything in my house is new and clean and in good condition, i like things that way. Thats all. Maybe the things in my house are only new because i just moved to this country but you get my point. I just like new stuff.
Surely there is nothing wrong with that.


Beatnik  (D 1051)

Jan 14, 2008, 1:18 PM
Post #20 of 71 (1720 views)
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Re: [hackish] Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? [In reply to] Can't Post

Why waste the money repairing a hole that doesn't need repairing? If you can't fit your figure through the hole it won't need repairing and really won't affect anything. If it gets larger, which I can't see any reason it would if it is being packed properly and not abused, then patch it. Also, being about 3 inches apart is getting close together once you start patching. The person doing it might just do one patch and then you are left with one big one in the reserve and judging by the description, it doesn't need them in the first place.


jee  (C License)

Jan 14, 2008, 1:30 PM
Post #21 of 71 (1713 views)
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Re: [hackish] Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've found out that my reserve has 2 tiny holes in it. They are below the minimum size for requiring a patch and are in the top skin away from a rib or any other high stress area. I'm just wondering what the general opinion is on having these two holes patched. One is about 1/8" square and the other is about 1/16" and they are about 3" apart.

-Michael

You can buy a brand new PD reserve for $800.00.
Buy one today. Why would you want to take any chances with your life.


diablopilot  (D License)

Jan 14, 2008, 1:38 PM
Post #22 of 71 (1708 views)
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Re: [jee] Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? [In reply to] Can't Post

You buy a brand new reserve after every pack job?


mark  (D 6108)

Jan 14, 2008, 2:25 PM
Post #23 of 71 (1682 views)
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Re: [hackish] Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I've found out that my reserve has 2 tiny holes in it. They are below the minimum size for requiring a patch and are in the top skin away from a rib or any other high stress area. I'm just wondering what the general opinion is on having these two holes patched. One is about 1/8" square and the other is about 1/16" and they are about 3" apart.

-Michael

From the PD Reserve Owner's Manual: "Small snags and holes small than 1/8 inch square (one ripstop box) located further than 10 inches from the closest line attachment may be left unrepaired as long as as there are no more than one in an 10-inch circle. A maximum of three such snags per cell are allowed."

Depending on your exact circumstances, the damage you describe may require repair, and maybe not.

If it does require repair, PD says: "Any hole or tear up to 10 inches in length may be repaired by a senior rigger as long as the closest area of the completed reapir is at least 1 inch from the nearest seam and at least 5 inches from the nearest tape or line attachment. These are minor repairs."

The FAA says a minor repair is anything that's not a major repair; a major repair is one that, if done improperly, might affect the airworthiness of the system. By extension, a minor repair is one that, if done improperly, will not affect the airworthiness of the system.

Put the PD instructions and FAA definition together and draw your own conclusions. I think you're looking at a $50 repair at most, and I'd take that over the $800 repair other folks have proposed.

If you do decide to throw away your canopy, please throw it my way. I'll be happy to pay for shipping.

Thanks in advance!
Mark


(This post was edited by mark on Jan 14, 2008, 2:26 PM)


peek  (D 8884)

Jan 14, 2008, 2:41 PM
Post #24 of 71 (1667 views)
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Re: [Gawain] Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Reserves are packed in accordance with the container manufacturer's instructions, that is the prevailing guidance.

Do you have a reference for that?


Gawain  (D 29213)

Jan 14, 2008, 4:28 PM
Post #25 of 71 (1604 views)
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Re: [peek] Holes in a reserve - to patch or not to patch? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Reserves are packed in accordance with the container manufacturer's instructions, that is the prevailing guidance.

Do you have a reference for that?

As it relates to some of the canopy manuals. For example, on PD Reserve's Manual, Part XVII, it states:
Quote:
If the rig manufacturer specifies a packing method
other than the one shown, and the rig manufacturer
specifically authorizes its use for this parachute you
may decide which instructions to follow.

Aerodyne's Smart manual says in 3.1.7:
Quote:
Using the manufacturer's manual as a guide, inspect the harness / container system
into which the SMART RESERVE is to be packed.

I've not looked at every source.

Also, the container manufacturer will usually outline the best way to position the canopy when packing into the free-bag, to ensure the best position for compressing the spring and pilot chute, etc.

edit to add: AC 105-2c, Para 11A (thanks Mark, I knew I overlooked something)


(This post was edited by Gawain on Jan 14, 2008, 5:29 PM)


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