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Fleecing the Collegiates

 

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thrillseek  (D 25523)

Dec 6, 2002, 2:47 PM
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Fleecing the Collegiates Can't Post

OK all, here's the deal:

Entry fees are up to $120 now PER COMPETITOR for collegiates, and everyone i've talked to about it is disgusted. Does your school's club have $480 just for entering a 4-way competition?? Skydive Marana is 20 miles down the road from Eloy, and they're offering deals that equal +/- $5 A JUMP!!!!

I don't want to be "that guy", but here it is:

SCREW ELOY FOR NATIONALS -- LET'S ALL GO TO MARANA AND HAVE OUR OWN COMPETITION SANS USPA. They haven't looked out for the little guy on this one. Period. End of story.

This isn't going to get any better for us if we don't make a statement. We'll all have a great time at Marana and get TONS more jumps than we would at Eloy. Since it's so close, we won't have to change travel plans that much....A Good number of collegiates are already planning on going to marana, so....WHO'S WITH ME?

A.T. Clinger
Founder,
National Collegiate Skydiving Association


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Dec 6, 2002, 3:12 PM
Post #2 of 38 (3270 views)
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Re: [thrillseek] Fleecing the Collegiates [In reply to] Can't Post

I protested the $100 fee last year by just fun jumping instead. I had as much if not more fun since I could screw around the whole time.

Cost: Every entrant will pay $120 plus event fees.
Accuracy (4 jumps) $10 per jump.
Sport Accuracy $10 per jump (number of rounds unknown).
Style (3 jumps) $14 per jump.
2-way Formation Skydiving $160 per team, includes air-to-air video.
4-way Formation Skydiving $324 per team, includes air-to-air video.
Freefly $160 per team, includes air-to-air video


That puts just to do 3 freefly jumps the cost is $200, then add in Sport Accuracy at the 3 rounds it lasted last year you'be be looking at $240 for 3 full altitude jumps and 3 hop and pops.

Then you get the dinner and a raffle ticket... if they are doing that this year. And the way last years dinner was scheduled was if you were driving more then a few hours like most people you had to skip the dinner if you wanted to get back to the first day of classes.


thrillseek  (D 25523)

Dec 6, 2002, 3:33 PM
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Re: letter to the board of directors, USPA [In reply to] Can't Post

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: MSU skydiving Club <skydive@murraystate.edu>
To: fullboard <fullboard@uspa.org>
Subject: collegiate nationals

Expensive. Outrageously overpriced. A disgusting way of fleecing the poorest group of jumpers. Disgusting. An outrage.

These are some of the many comments I am hearing from college students across the country regarding this year's collegiate nationals.

There is talk of many of the jumpers that would have competed at Eloy meeting up in Marana, where during the same time peroid they will be having an "all you can jump for 5 days for $250" event. I have a funny feeling that unless someone steps in and looks out for the little guy, the little guys are going to hold their own nationals somewhere else with no USPA affiliation.

This may seem like a small issue to those of you on the board, but to those of us that are considered "the future of the sport" it represents a trend in which the USPA sits by and lets the Big dropzones treat the USPA as their own private business organization. I may only be a college student with the ink barely dry on my D-license, but i can't imagine this being what the founders of the organization had in mind. I'm all for business and capitolism in general, but let's be realistic here folks. It is obvious when you open up the parachutist magazine and look at the names of the people running this organization and realize that a majority are owners of large dropzones that there is a serious conflict of interest happening here.

With all of this going on, I proposed an organization designed specifically to prevent cost issues and upset college skydivers -- The National Collegiate Skydiving Association. Ideally, this would be a part of the USPA, so that there would be a clear liaison for collegiates. The idea was met with a lot of enthusiasm, however, nothing has been done in time to prevent Skydive Arizona from increasing the entry fee from last year's already expensive $100.
No one even asked a single college student where THEY wanted the nationals to be, not to mention what the cost should be. I seem to remember being able to compete in this year's US Nationals and only having to pay $40.
Common sense dictates that if there isn't some remedial action taken to help out the collegiates, two things will happen:
1. We'll all go to another dropzone where it is more affordable, and
2. We'll hold our own nationals there.

We all want to participate, and enjoy being members of the USPA, but enough is enough.

So, like your magazine says..."Hey USPA, what have you done for me lately?"

Sincerely,

A.T. Clinger
Founder,
National Collegiate Skydiving Assoc.

______________________________
******MSU Skydivers******
"Defying gravity since 2001"
_____________________________
http://campus.murraystate.edu/skydive


bodypilot90  (D 24249)

Dec 6, 2002, 3:35 PM
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Re: [thrillseek] Fleecing the Collegiates [In reply to] Can't Post

have you e mailed anyone at the Uspa? How did they respond. What natioal directors have you contacted, ect?


thrillseek  (D 25523)

Dec 6, 2002, 3:41 PM
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Re: [bodypilot90] Fleecing the Collegiates [In reply to] Can't Post

i contacted the whole board of directors, as well as hearing "hey, if i were in your guy's shoes, i'd do the same thing" from one regional director, which i think it wise not to mention [his/her] nameWink


skymedic  (C 33561)

Dec 6, 2002, 4:03 PM
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Re: [thrillseek] Fleecing the Collegiates [In reply to] Can't Post

Go to the other DZ...screw Eloy for doing that....


bodypilot90  (D 24249)

Dec 6, 2002, 4:24 PM
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Re: [thrillseek] Fleecing the Collegiates [In reply to] Can't Post

well I hate to put it like this but this IS the reason you need to elect board members that understand what YOU want.


freefallin14  (D 25069)

Dec 6, 2002, 4:46 PM
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Re: [thrillseek] letter to the board of directors, USPA [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree that it is a load of crap. I wasn't planning on going this year anyway (have a wedding new years eve I have to go to) but now am not feeling so bad about not being able to go. I would like to hear how they can justify this, especially if nationals was $40 as you say. Where is this money going to? If I were in your shoes I would go down the street to Marana (isn't Mullin's king air there?) for that $250 deal.

Bret


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
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Dec 6, 2002, 5:48 PM
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Re: [freefallin14] letter to the board of directors, USPA [In reply to] Can't Post

Mullins is at Coolage, but Manara has the Rocket 100. Its almost as fast as Mullins and the prices with the boogie are only a fraction of Eloy's cost.

120 for college kids but 40 for the Nationals? I can see some increase just since there are not the same number of people to offset some of the fixed costs such as trophies etc. But if they are paying extra to have Judges flown in or something... there is no need for that at the collegents. Last year most RW teams were lucky to turn 4 or 5 points, I think even Airspeed or and of the Teams of jumpers can judge that level. And Mike Ortiz current BOD is out there... sounds like a perfect freefly judge to me.

I'm wondering if the $120 includes anything beyond the "Ok... you can jump for your school" type stuff. If it includes stuff like a meal or two, free demos from Square2 or something that might be a bit different.


cmnorris  (D License)

Dec 7, 2002, 6:34 AM
Post #10 of 38 (3120 views)
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Re: [thrillseek] letter to the board of directors, USPA [In reply to] Can't Post

so, how do we make the National Collegiate Skydiving Assoc a reality?


markbaur  (D 6108)

Dec 7, 2002, 7:58 AM
Post #11 of 38 (3107 views)
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Re: [thrillseek] letter to the board of directors, USPA [In reply to] Can't Post

Collegiates, like Nationals, are subject to a proposal/bid process. The competing proposals and bids should be available from USPA. You should ask, so you can see what your $120 is buying.

It may be that the alternatives were $120 vs no Collegiates at all.

The Skydivers Competition Manual governs competition and judging, and requires rated judges for Collegiates. If you want to be able to use unrated judges, then you should propose changes to the USPA Competition Committee. (As an aside, I'd recommend you target individual USPA board members who might be sympathetic. When you write to "fullboard," none of them will feel much heat.)

I think the NSL is a better model for competition, so I wish you the best of luck organizing the Collegiate Skydiving League. I'd like to see Collegiate 2- and 4-way dives drawn for League meets, in addition to the rookie/intermediate/advanced/open 4-way draws. (Okay, A/AA/AAA/AAAA.) The S&A folks could compete weekly from their home DZs, where they likely have facilities and judging available.

Mark


pilotdave  (D License)

Dec 7, 2002, 8:50 AM
Post #12 of 38 (3101 views)
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Re: [thrillseek] Fleecing the Collegiates [In reply to] Can't Post

Hell yeah. If everyone is gonna boycott collegiate nationals, I might just have to enter! Maybe I could win something! I think I'll go for accuracy. I might win landing 50 feet from the target!

Just kidding. There's no way I'd spend that much money to compete. I won't be going out there, but good luck. Does the USPA have any explanation for where all this money goes?

Dave


kallend  (D 23151)

Dec 7, 2002, 11:03 AM
Post #13 of 38 (3082 views)
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Re: [thrillseek] Fleecing the Collegiates [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
OK all, here's the deal:

Entry fees are up to $120 now PER COMPETITOR for collegiates, and everyone i've talked to about it is disgusted.

That's more than the regular Nationals!

Seems to me like an open invitation to go independent.
Want a faculty sponsor?

John K. - Professor
Faculty advisor, IIT Skydiving Club.


cmnorris  (D License)

Dec 7, 2002, 1:58 PM
Post #14 of 38 (3052 views)
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Re: [pilotdave] Fleecing the Collegiates [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm sure USPA knows fairly nothing. I tried to clear up a point in October for my club members and no one at USPA was able to give a satisfactory answer.

Here was the question:
How many jumps can you have and participate in the 2-way competition?

It doesn't say anywhere in the manual. It doesn't even mention whether or not there are the novice, intermediate, and advanced classes that the other events have. When I e-mailed USPA, it took a week to get this answer: "the 2-way competition is meant to be for novice competitors."

How did that help at all? I also was told that I was right and that the manual needed "revising."

I also made the mistake of asking USPA about registration fee info before it was posted on the Skydive Arizona website. At UF we need to have travel approval way before the event so that we can receive funding. Likewise, the USPA person that I e-mailed then was clueless.

I've reached the conclusion that collegiates is pretty much put on by the DZ holding the competitions, with little USPA input.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Dec 7, 2002, 3:07 PM
Post #15 of 38 (3040 views)
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Re: [cmnorris] Fleecing the Collegiates [In reply to] Can't Post

The 2 way is restricted to both people having less then 100 jumps. Its in the SCM.


rocketfeuille  (A 42170)

Dec 7, 2002, 4:44 PM
Post #16 of 38 (3025 views)
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Re: [thrillseek] Fleecing the Collegiates [In reply to] Can't Post

Are all the jumps during the holiday boogie that expensive? Or just competition jumps? Sorry if this is a retarded question...


indyz  (D 28525)

Dec 7, 2002, 5:01 PM
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Re: [rocketfeuille] Fleecing the Collegiates [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Are all the jumps during the holiday boogie that expensive? Or just competition jumps? Sorry if this is a retarded question...
Those are the comp rates. But really, if you look at it the competition jumps are somewhat reasonably priced. Freefly, for example, costs about $27 per round per competitor. That's not bad at all considering that a camera flier is included.

It's the entry fee that feels like a ripoff.


cmnorris  (D License)

Dec 8, 2002, 5:56 AM
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Re: [PhreeZone] Fleecing the Collegiates [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The 2 way is restricted to both people having less then 100 jumps. Its in the SCM.

Actually, it's not in there. Apparently, in older versions of the SCM, the 100 jumps that you referred to was in there. The version that is online at the USPA website now makes no mention of jump numbers anywhere. That's why the USPA guy I was corresponding with admitted that the SCM would need to be revised.


Premier TomAiello  (D 22400)
Moderator
Dec 8, 2002, 7:49 PM
Post #19 of 38 (2923 views)
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Re: [thrillseek] letter to the board of directors, USPA [In reply to] Can't Post

I just sent in my USPA dues. I attached a copy of your letter to the board.

I think it's lame to take advantage of the group of skydivers who (a) are least able to stand up for themselves, and (b) are most important to the future of the sport.

Good luck with that.


thrillseek  (D 25523)

Dec 8, 2002, 8:04 PM
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Re: [TomAiello] letter to the board of directors, USPA [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks Tom.
It means a lot to me to hear that you were willing to do that. I'm sure i speak for all the would-be collegiate competitors when i say we appreciate that kind of support. I hope the USPA will see that we just want to be able to compete at reasonable costs...it's a hell of a drive just to get to Arizona for a lot of us, and we sure could do without those extravagant costs.

FYI,
I e-mailed the competition committee this evening asking if there's a way that the USPA can subsidize costs for non-military academy college students....we'll just have to see what happens in DC....maybe they'll realize there are a LOT of upset members and do something. If not, i am still working on organizing the first un-official non-USPA collegiate nationals this year at Marana, just in case. Wink
A.T.


lgershen  (D 25265)

Dec 9, 2002, 8:58 AM
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Re: [thrillseek] Fleecing the Collegiates [In reply to] Can't Post

AT,

I talked with you over email and I fully agree with you. The prices are way too high! I understand the military academies get a lot of money for their jumps, registration, etc. Someone on rec.skydiving believes they should get that payment b/c they are serving the country, "smart", etc. I don't agree with this guy on that fully. But anyway, even if they are getting supplemented with money, we should should be subsidized quite a bit too. In fact, I think the registration fee should be LESS than the $40 nationals registration fee. After all, we are college students! I know that I can't afford $120 + jumps + flying + food + everything else under the sun even though I am making more money now as a graduate student. USPA doesn't seem to care about us the way they should. Then again, we make up a miniscule amount of the skydiving population.


In addition to this, I believe whole heartedly (as per your suggestion) that we should organize a national organization for collegiate skydivers. We should have more regional competitions similar to NSL's matchups. This way, more collegiate teams could participate and more people would realize there is more to do with the club after you completed all of the AFF levels. I personally think that the board of directors have us so down on their priority list, that they may not take notice to our wants and needs. But, remember, persistance (by the majority of collegiate skydivers, not only a few) will allow us to obtain our goal.

Blue Skies, Soft Landings,
Lewis
D-25265
Maryland Skydiving (www.umd.edu/StudentOrg/cpsc)


Luminous  (D 19251)

Dec 9, 2002, 8:59 AM
Post #22 of 38 (2845 views)
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Re: [thrillseek] letter to the board of directors, USPA [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I e-mailed the competition committee this evening asking if there's a way that the USPA can subsidize costs for non-military academy college students....

WTF ? I had to give my view on this.

NO ! If you can't afford to jump, stay on the ground.
Or get a job. If you have a job, work some more hours. Or wait till you graduate and get a job that allows you to afford it.

You want it NOW? Join the military like the military acadamy boys did, sure they get to jump subsidized by our taxes, in exchange for their service. That I consider a fair trade.

But to expect USPA (aka: USPA MEMBERS) to pay your way, in part or in full. No way.

"The future of skydiving" showing up with their hands out. How sad.

BSBD
Larry


AggieDave  (D License)

Dec 9, 2002, 9:06 AM
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Re: [Luminous] letter to the board of directors, USPA [In reply to] Can't Post

I would hate to see the "regular" skydiving college types be subsidized. What I would like to see is the USPA lower the costs of collegates.

Quote:
Join the military like the military acadamy boys did, sure they get to jump subsidized by our taxes, in exchange for their service. That I consider a fair trade.

I don't, let me explain why before you start flaming. I go to Texas A&M Univeristy, I was in the Corps of Cadets and have a Marine Corps contract. I talked quite a bit to the 3 different ROTC offices about getting money for a Corps of Cadets skydiving team. You know what they said? Nope, aint gonna happen. How am I any different the the Academy types? The program I've been through is actually harder then the Academies and I'm going to serve my country in the Marines. I guess I'm not good enough, then.

"Give me an Army of West Point graduates and I'll win a few battles, give me a few Aggies and I'll win the war!" --Gen. Patton.


Rdutch  (D 24618)

Dec 9, 2002, 9:35 AM
Post #24 of 38 (2833 views)
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Re: [thrillseek] Fleecing the Collegiates [In reply to] Can't Post

Here is a potential solution to the problem.
THe NSl has skyquest every year, Im sure if enough College teams got together and emailed Kurt gabel, he would consider adding a class to the competition. (College Class). The one thing that you would probably have a hard time with is getting him to do freefly though. But with enough input anything is possible. If all the collegate teams got together on the forum and made a unanimous proposal, it could be forwarded to the Nsl.
Just an Idea.


Watcher  (D 24876)

Dec 9, 2002, 12:18 PM
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Re: [Rdutch] Fleecing the Collegiates [In reply to] Can't Post

Skyquest was a bit pricy too imo. $255 per person then the split of the camera man. Was a bit much for a team and collegiates (not includeing travel) is about the same.

Jonathan


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