Forums: Skydiving: Wind Tunnels:
Will these minutes do any good?

 


VincentVL.  (Student)

Nov 7, 2007, 8:34 AM
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Will these minutes do any good? Can't Post

I'm starting AFF in March/April. My local tunnel is currently offering a discount on the introductory "crash course" so I'm thinking about taking a tunnel course.

I would get 2 X 1.5 minutes in the tunnel.
If it's necessary I'd be willing to purchase 2 or 3 extra minutes. Total time spent in tunnel somewhere between 3 and 6 minutes.

My questions.

1. Will this help me significantly during my AFF?
2. When should I go in the tunnel? Between Level 1 and 2; or between 2 and 3?

Thx again!


Partorg  (D 27070)

Nov 7, 2007, 12:10 PM
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Re: [VincentVL.] Will these minutes do any good? [In reply to] Can't Post

Take 10 before-within-and afterWink
You can underestimate tunnel time. In a first shock of AFF your body and mind will have one less problem. It will be familiar with a freefall conditions. Take as much as you can afford. This is my personal opinion. Would simulator help to pilot before he actually fly? This is even more critical. Good luck.


VincentVL.  (Student)

Nov 7, 2007, 12:41 PM
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Re: [Partorg] Will these minutes do any good? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for the kind words.

Now to specify my question: I'm pretty positive tunneltime is great and all. However, if I can ONLY spend 5 minutes in a tunnel (2X1.5 and 2X1)...

1. Will it be enough to make a difference?
2. When should I get them?


JustChuteMeNow

Nov 7, 2007, 12:59 PM
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Re: [VincentVL.] Will these minutes do any good? [In reply to] Can't Post

This question is hard to answer because we can't see you fly. Some people need to repeat an AFF level if they have problems with turning, instability, etc. It will be cheaper to fix the problem in a tunnel setting; however, not everyone has problems.

My suggestion would be to wait and IF you have a problem, try and fix the problem in the tunnel. A good tunnel coach will be able to maximize your learning and help you correct poor body position.


derrickiv  (B 31726)

Nov 7, 2007, 3:24 PM
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Re: [JustChuteMeNow] Will these minutes do any good? [In reply to] Can't Post

I got tunnel time in between AFF 2 and 3 (3 is the first time the instructors let go of you during free fall). Up here at SVCO, they have a awesome deal where for about $180, you get 15 minutes and coaching.

I never failed an AFF jump and I would attribute that in large part to the tunnel time I got. I was confident in my abilities after the "short" 15 minute session so I had no problem in the sky making turns and doing forward/back movement.

It was money well spent because if I had failed a jump, I would have payed about the same amount to redo.. instead, I spent $180, "insured" I wouldn't fail a jump and learned a lot. Even if you wouldn't have problems completing AFF without tunnel time, a little bit of time will just make you that much better while you are working towards your A and beoyond.


VincentVL.  (Student)

Nov 7, 2007, 3:57 PM
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Re: [derrickiv] Will these minutes do any good? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah...

If I could just spend 180 bux for 15 minutes of tunnel time the choice would be easy.

Over here it's 20€ a minute. So a tunnelcamp of 10 minutes costs 200€. On top of that you have to go through an introduction course which costs about 70€.
In other words...13 minutes of tunnel time will cost you 270€.

Frankly...I'd rather repeat a jump or two instead of spending 270€ on a tunnel course.


djd  (D 10759)

Nov 7, 2007, 4:03 PM
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Re: [VincentVL.] Will these minutes do any good? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Over here it's 20€ a minute.

can i ask where over here is, what tunnel are you talking about..?


VincentVL.  (Student)

Nov 7, 2007, 4:23 PM
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Re: [djd] Will these minutes do any good? [In reply to] Can't Post

Roosendaal.

Why?


derrickiv  (B 31726)

Nov 7, 2007, 5:00 PM
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Re: [VincentVL.] Will these minutes do any good? [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh, doh, sorry. I read VL, and thought it was FL.. assumed you were near Orlando.. my bad.


hparrish  (D 25090)

Nov 7, 2007, 6:29 PM
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Re: [VincentVL.] Will these minutes do any good? [In reply to] Can't Post

How much is a jump at your the DZ you are taking AFF? I would assume AFF Levels 1-10 would be significanlty higher than 10 minutes of Tunnel Time.

To put it into perspective 10 minutes in the tunnel is equal to 10 Jumps.

I don't see how that is too expensive.


Morrison79  (C 37447)

Nov 7, 2007, 8:52 PM
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Re: [VincentVL.] Will these minutes do any good? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm no expert by any means, but you should be able to get through AFF with no tunnel time at all. If you have the means to get some time that will help you. Buy what you can afford and talk to the tunnel coach before you get in and let him know what your intentions are. Make sure they know you will be going through AFF and that you are not just there for a thrill ride type deal.


djd  (D 10759)

Nov 8, 2007, 3:31 AM
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Re: [VincentVL.] Will these minutes do any good? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Roosendaal.

Why?

Cool tunnel... If you go say Hi to Mark the Australian instructor.

He was working with me at Bodyflight Bedford.

as regards to cost, it is more expensive in Europe and England than the USA, but the more you buy the cheaper it gets so maybe get with some others from yr dropzone to bulk buy an Hr.

If no one at yr dropzone are going to the tunnel, then call the tunnel and find out if there are any camps running, a lot of these camps have spare time and as they get a good discount ( sometimes ) the flight time you buy is no more expensive than what it would be if you brought it yrself plus you should get some good coaching thrown in..

Hope this helps.

Dave..


tdog  (D 28800)

Nov 8, 2007, 6:44 AM
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Re: [VincentVL.] Will these minutes do any good? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Yeah...

If I could just spend 180 bux for 15 minutes of tunnel time the choice would be easy.

Over here it's 20€ a minute. So a tunnelcamp of 10 minutes costs 200€. On top of that you have to go through an introduction course which costs about 70€.
In other words...13 minutes of tunnel time will cost you 270€.

Often tunnels have "skydiver rates", which is different than the rates they charge to the one time fliers who are coming for a birthday party or something.

I think you should go to the DZ, start talking to people, and finding out the "in" to the tunnel.

In reply to:
Frankly...I'd rather repeat a jump or two instead of spending 270€ on a tunnel course.

Well... I disagree. AFF is not about pass/fail, but about getting you ready to jump with YOUR FRIENDS. People with this mentality often don't stick in the sport because they never get good enough to have rewarding skydives and find the most simple docks to be difficult.

Get a bit of tunnel time with good coaching - and you can have real rewarding jumps.

I took a student up for a checkoff dive over the summer. He had some tunnel time. He looked at the requirements in the book and said, "this is way to easy and a waste of my money. I am going to fly this whole thing on my back." I played along. It was a crap load of fun.

Skydiving is about QUALITY, not QUANTITY.

Any fool can bust a hole thru the sky. These fools often leave the sport when they discover gravity works. A skilled skydiver does it with grace and control - and it takes MANY, MANY, MANY more jumps and money to learn this in the sky than in the tunnel...


(This post was edited by tdog on Nov 8, 2007, 6:45 AM)


Partorg  (D 27070)

Nov 8, 2007, 6:49 AM
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Re: [tdog] Will these minutes do any good? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Well... I disagree. AFF is not about pass/fail, but about getting you ready to jump with YOUR FRIENDS. People with this mentality often don't stick in the sport because they never get good enough to have rewarding skydives and find the most simple docks to be difficult.

Get a bit of tunnel time with good coaching - and you can have real rewarding jumps.

I took a student up for a checkoff dive over the summer. He had some tunnel time. He looked at the requirements in the book and said, "this is way to easy and a waste of my money. I am going to fly this whole thing on my back." I played along. It was a crap load of fun.

Skydiving is about QUALITY, not QUANTITY.

Any fool can bust a hole thru the sky. These fools often leave the sport when they discover gravity works. A skilled skydiver does it with grace and control - and it takes MANY, MANY, MANY more jumps and money to learn this in the sky than in the tunnel...

Very well said. I could not agree more.


VincentVL.  (Student)

Nov 8, 2007, 7:16 AM
Post #15 of 22 (2356 views)
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Re: [Partorg] Will these minutes do any good? [In reply to] Can't Post

Alright. Can't argue with that.

I'll call the tunnel and see what is possible. Perhaps I'll even consider the 10 minute camp.

Thx for the advice


djd  (D 10759)

Nov 8, 2007, 10:38 AM
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Re: [VincentVL.] Will these minutes do any good? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Alright. Can't argue with that.


Thx for the advice

YIPPEEE

well done you... some body actually listened and made the right choice....

By the way YOU owe Beer because thats a first for Dropzone.com.....
CoolTongue

May you have many more First's and buy lots of beer..

Welcome to Skydiving...Wink


pinkfairy  (C 85665)

Nov 12, 2007, 8:02 AM
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Re: [VincentVL.] Will these minutes do any good? [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, IMHO, you don't need tunnel time to pass AFF, but you'll definetely learn something, and maybe it will give you confidence that you can pass the levels, which can help you pass. The AFF levels in themselves aren't difficult, but if you're sure you'll fail, then that's what you're gonna do.

Tunnel flight is also great fun. It can be frustrating and give you bruises, but definetely fun. I did my first 1 hour and 15 min this week, it was expensive, but worth every penny.

So do it if you feel like it. You don't have to, but I'm sure you won't regret it.

Smile


leroydb  (D 25743)

Nov 12, 2007, 5:40 PM
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Re: [VincentVL.] Will these minutes do any good? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have over 700 sky jumps and just used 10 min of time this friday and worked on knee flying and back flying. I then used that experiance the next day on some real skydives... Anyone can learn and gain knowledge and experiance from time in a tunnel...

Le Roy


stormywinters

Nov 12, 2007, 6:32 PM
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Re: [VincentVL.] Will these minutes do any good? [In reply to] Can't Post

  Its about confidence, a good skydive will lead to a good/fun canopy ride. If you get unstable at pull time, an recover, it could still effect your canopy ride? Crazy I saw this AFF student today in the tunnel holding his heading, had forward an backward movement, turning left and right, waiving off, and he could hold a "pull" position(one arm back). He did that in 6 mins of tunnel time, the guy was GOOD. His name was Sean. Cool guy.


djd  (D 10759)

Nov 13, 2007, 4:25 AM
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Re: [Partorg] Will these minutes do any good? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
. AFF is not about pass/fail, but about getting you ready to jump with YOUR FRIENDS.Skydiving is about QUALITY, not QUANTITY.

Any fool can bust a hole thru the sky. These fools often leave the sport when they discover gravity works. A skilled skydiver does it with grace and control -


Ok please dont take this as a personal Dig.

First AFF, IS Pass or Fail.

In the UK we have an FS manual which skydivers work through when they have done there consolidation jumps after AFF, !! THIS !! is what gets them ready to fly with there friends, I believe in the USA you have skydive U, but im not sure if this runs as in the UK.

Fact... if you have tunnel time you will get through this quicker..:)


In reply to:
...Any fool can bust a hole thru the sky. These fools often leave the sport when they discover gravity works. A skilled skydiver does it with grace and control...
In reply to:

I have seen many people who are new to skydiving doing 4 way.... or trying, getting very frustrated because exits dont fly or they only manage to do 1 point.. if that.. then they get bored and leave...

They are not FOOLS they have been let down by the experienced people at there drop zones.

I forget how many times i have gone up with relatively inexperienced skydivers and launched a tube or got a group to do a horny gorilla to land and all of them say wow thats a first never done anything like that before it was so much FUN..
We did nothing constructive so to speak just burn a big fat smiling hole in the sky...( some of these guys and girls have never been unstable on purpose since there qualifying dive )

Sometimes you dont even need to jump with them.. just tell a cpl or few of them what to do, tell them what to look out for on the safty side of things and watch them land laughing all the way to the packing mat...

personaly i think No one should be looked at as a FOOL ( unless they are dangerous )

just Uneducated. YOU should take time out and talk to these people and help them as i am sure somebody did with you when you first started in this sport.

As i said at the begining dont take this personaly, But every skydiver is revenue in our sport and allows dropzones to grow and get better equipment for the masses to use, if people leave then we only have ourselves to blame...

Anyway as this thread is in the Tunnel forum, i had better add......

Tunnels are Great and teach you loads.... I know i work in one...

Blue skys..


dragon2  (D 101989)

Nov 16, 2007, 2:01 AM
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Re: [tdog] Will these minutes do any good? [In reply to] Can't Post

The 20 euro/min IS the skydiver rate. Unless you buy an hour it doesn't get cheaper. Jumping is at least 25 euro for 12k so the tunnel is a bit cheaper per min. With some skydiver deals you can get free coaching (we have some freeflyers who regularly have tunnel evenings like that) but that's it. Of course beginners get free coaching from the tunnel marshalls and he should say he's going for AFF (some of the marshalls are AFF instructors too).

You can fly to Orlando if you want to book like 2 hrs and still have money leftover Unsure


tdog  (D 28800)

Nov 16, 2007, 6:29 AM
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Re: [djd] Will these minutes do any good? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Ok please dont take this as a personal Dig.

First AFF, IS Pass or Fail.

In the UK we have an FS manual which skydivers work through when they have done there consolidation jumps after AFF, !! THIS !! is what gets them ready to fly with there friends, I believe in the USA you have skydive U, but im not sure if this runs as in the UK.

Fact... if you have tunnel time you will get through this quicker..:)

Since I was the one who first posted "AFF is not about pass/fail", then someone agreed, and you replied to their agreement, I will respond... (That does not make sense, oh well).

1) Anyone who views AFF as pass/fail is doing a disservice to themselves and the ability for humans to learn at different rates. I have heavily modified the higher levels to cater to the student's needs - and ironically, I make them HARDER for students who have tunnel time, not EAISER for others.

In the USA, there are only a few things on each level that is cut and dry - pass/fail. For an example, on level 2 the student must pull on their own without a reminder because on level 3 they will be let go - whereas on level 2, if the turns suck but still work - they can move on with a note in their file that on level 4 they need to perfect the turn...

Quote:
In the UK we have an FS manual which skydivers work through when they have done there consolidation jumps after AFF, !! THIS !! is what gets them ready to fly with there friends, I believe in the USA you have skydive U, but im not sure if this runs as in the UK.

2) Excluding canopy control, altitude awareness, and tracking... (all important skills) - I bet someone with tunnel time, 9 times out of 10, will outperform their peers on their "FS manual jumps." In the US we have the USPA training program, and to give you a hint between a few students I have worked with:

Student 1 - exited plane, had fall rate issues, tracked too hard and crashed into me, reached for grips, and never completed the dock.

Student 2 - "Hey T, I wanna do my A licence check off dive. This thing looks way too easy. Can I do the whole jump backflying, the SIM does not say I have to be on my belly."

Student 3 - Swoop and dock. I told the student I would climb out and give an exit count - and he should follow as close as possible. In the door I was on my knees helping spot with another student. Our turn. I looked at my friend (student) and said, "I am so going to screw you" and fell out on my back. He had the longest swoop and dock I have ever given to a student. He went into a steep head down track that took most of the dive to complete, followed by a real nice dock.


Which students had tunnel time of the 3 listed above? Which ones not only completed the learning objectives of the training program, but took them a step farther? Which ones are ready to be the last out on a 20 way, versus barely able to do a 2 way?

This is why I say the tunnel time helps...



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