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What is this canopy? #6

 

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howardwhite  (C 3896)

Oct 1, 2007, 4:52 PM
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What is this canopy? #6 Can't Post

And who, and where, and would you like to jump it?Sly

HW
Attachments: C2.jpg (68.3 KB)
  C3.jpg (57.9 KB)


Rover  (D 241)

Oct 1, 2007, 5:37 PM
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Re: [howardwhite] What is this canopy? #6 [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't know, don't know, don't know - and no.


(This post was edited by Rover on Oct 1, 2007, 5:38 PM)


mccurley  (E 663)

Oct 1, 2007, 6:16 PM
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Re: [howardwhite] What is this canopy? #6 [In reply to] Can't Post

Is it another Barish creation?

In the first photo it looks like a couple of birds are sitting on top of itLaugh


Zing  (D 6343)

Oct 1, 2007, 6:18 PM
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Re: [mccurley] What is this canopy? #6 [In reply to] Can't Post

I know ... I know ... I've got the book those photos are in sitting on the bookshelf.


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Oct 1, 2007, 6:26 PM
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Re: [howardwhite] What is this canopy? #6 [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi howard,

You're getting down to the bottom of the barrel now. Cool

I think it was an R&D project as a replacement for military paratroopers. A precursor to what Para-Flite (oops, Airborne Systems) is now producing.

Was it glued together? I seem to remember something like that about it.

NO, I do not want to jump it. Crazy

JerryBaumchen


howardwhite  (C 3896)

Oct 1, 2007, 6:34 PM
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Re: [Zing] What is this canopy? #6 [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't get it from a book; I got it from Parachutist. You can even see the Para-Gear ad on the back of the page.
But I want the book.Cool

HW


(This post was edited by howardwhite on Oct 1, 2007, 6:37 PM)


Beatnik  (D 1051)

Oct 1, 2007, 6:59 PM
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Re: [howardwhite] What is this canopy? #6 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
would you like to jump it?

Of course, do you even have to ask.


howardwhite  (C 3896)

Oct 1, 2007, 7:31 PM
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Re: [mccurley] What is this canopy? #6 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Is it another Barish creation?
No.Tongue

In reply to:
In the first photo it looks like a couple of birds are sitting on top of it

I think one of the birds is actually the bag (see attached)

HW
Attachments: C1.jpg (28.5 KB)


Jim_Hooper  (D 4019)

Oct 2, 2007, 12:11 AM
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Re: [howardwhite] What is this canopy? #6 [In reply to] Can't Post

HW - the photo triggered a cob-webby synapse. I do remember it appearing in Parachutist. It was called X-something. X-wing? X-canopy?
Hoop


howardwhite  (C 3896)

Oct 2, 2007, 2:46 AM
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] What is this canopy? #6 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You're getting down to the bottom of the barrel now.
You've obviously never seen my barrel.Cool
This one is much closer to the bottom.
These pictures speak to something I haven't seen for years; skydivers with both engineering and sewing skills creating essentially one-off canopies and then (for the most part) having the courage of their convictions and jumping them. No military contracts going on here, no thought of huge riches -- just a personal challenge and lots of time.
The canopy in the OP was designed by someone whose name you'll recognize, and its design was the subject of a multi-page article in Parachutist.

HW


(This post was edited by howardwhite on Oct 2, 2007, 2:47 AM)
Attachments: c4.jpg (79.0 KB)


piper17  (D 3362)

Oct 2, 2007, 11:14 AM
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Re: [howardwhite] What is this canopy? #6 [In reply to] Can't Post

It is, I believe, a cruciform design. Lemoigne, Reuter, Puskas, Fox and a number of other names in the business have patents on this type of canopy.

Don't know who the jumper is in the picture.


howardwhite  (C 3896)

Oct 3, 2007, 3:42 PM
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Re: [piper17] What is this canopy? #6 [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, since this one seems to be boring...Frown
In reply to:
It is, I believe, a cruciform design.
Well, yes, but "cruciform" just means "cross-shaped." And if you Google "cruciform parachute," you'll get a lot of hits, including some stating that "squares" are just highly-modified cruciform parachutes. And you'll see them in common use for cargo drops and for air and spacecraft deceleration.
Hoop notes "the photo triggered a cob-webby synapse. I do remember it appearing in Parachutist. It was called X-something. X-wing? X-canopy?"
Actually it was called the "Cross Parachute," and it was developed and made by Gary Patmor. The article about it, in the May, '68 Parachutist and the pictures were by Carl Boenish. The jumps were in October '67 at Yolo County Airport.
His description: "Two large rectangular strips, each 10 x 40 feet of nylon twill...are placed perpendicular to and bisecting one another. The 10 x 10 foot 'high pressure' area formed by the common intersection of the two rectangular strips is double weight.. and is securely fastened at the corners. Each of the four 'arms' has five suspension lines 36 feet long sewn to it at equal intervals."
Boenish notes that while the canopy can be "steered" by pulling down lines, "the forward speed essentially is identical to that of the prevailing wind."
If you look at magazines from the 60s and 70s, you'll find several articles about home-grown parachute designs, usually jumped only by the person who built them. I haven't seen any of that lately.

HW


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Oct 3, 2007, 9:53 PM
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Re: [howardwhite] What is this canopy? #6 [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi howard,

Yup, now I remember it.

Last I saw of Patmor was at a competition at Antioch in Spring '71. He was jumping an original ParaPlane, the little one. I heard that he got into hang-gliding and set some type of world record somewhere out in the California desert.

He did a lot for jumping back in the '60's.


JerryBaumchen


377  (F 666)

Oct 3, 2007, 11:16 PM
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Re: [howardwhite] What is this canopy? #6 [In reply to] Can't Post

Beatnik would jump it for sure. He has seriously impaired judgment when it comes to old canopy designs. The weirder and rarer, the more he wants to jump them. You know the ancient canopies you see at garage sales from some old timer, for $20, that is what he likes to jump. If you see a PC, Sled, T-Bow, Dactyl or other blast from the past flying by in the 21st century, you aren't hallucinating. It's just Beatnik doing his own version of dumpster diving.


Jim_Hooper  (D 4019)

Oct 4, 2007, 2:03 AM
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Re: [howardwhite] What is this canopy? #6 [In reply to] Can't Post

Howard -Rather than play the whats this canopy quiz when no one could possibly know the answer, I submit the photo of my own modest effort. For relative workers of the early- to mid-70s, the catchwords were weight and low profile. In pursuit of these, I replaced parts of a 26 Navy conical with panels from a C-9 to create a semblance of Lemoigne slots, installed ParaCommander-style steering lines, pulled down the apex, added crown lines and tried calendering it with starch. It was packed it in a bag to fit the NB-6 Navy container, which I mounted upside-down (the bottom being marginally narrower than the top) on a Stylemaster harness, the stock ripcord handle replaced with a blast handle. Mated to my poptop belly reserve, it was indeed low profile by the standards of the day. Openings were something of a lottery, and brisk when they happened, while landings though stand-upable with a good breeze were not kind on the knees. With the confidence (or arrogance) of youthful immortality, I actually did a couple of demos into Tampa and St Pete with it. Never crossed my mind that I was being outrageously foolish. After about 50 jumps, it was stolen from the Zhills loft, leaving me utterly bereft.
Hoop
SCR242 Zhills Ten-man #9
Attachments: Yesterday-3.jpg (121 KB)


howardwhite  (C 3896)

Oct 4, 2007, 3:01 AM
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Re: [377] What is this canopy? #6 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Beatnik would jump it for sure. He has seriously impaired judgment when it comes to old canopy designs.
Oh, I know that. He's jonesing for my Volplane, whenever I manage to get it back from the person I "loaned" it to a few years ago.

HW


377  (F 666)

Oct 4, 2007, 4:22 AM
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Re: [Jim_Hooper] What is this canopy? #6 [In reply to] Can't Post

What an amazing parachute Hoop! What is the story on the white red split on the one panel? Frankencanopy indeed.


Jim_Hooper  (D 4019)

Oct 4, 2007, 5:47 AM
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Re: [377] What is this canopy? #6 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What an amazing parachute Hoop! What is the story on the white red split on the one panel? Frankencanopy indeed.

All the orange parts came from a C-9 and were slightly larger than what they replaced. The split I thing you're asking about (on the left side - and matched to the right) was open to the rear. Forward speed was about the same as a PC, though rate of descent was roughly 10% higher. Not bone-crushing, but certainly firm.


Beatnik  (D 1051)

Oct 4, 2007, 5:53 AM
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Re: [377] What is this canopy? #6 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Beatnik would jump it for sure. He has seriously impaired judgment when it comes to old canopy designs.

LOL


JumpUpMyAss  (C 11562)

Oct 4, 2007, 6:07 AM
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Re: [Jim_Hooper] What is this canopy? #6 [In reply to] Can't Post

 
I remember watching guys like you when I started jumping 1975 and thinking to myself 'these guys are nuts'.
The days of the 'Super Cheapo'. At that time I could not understand why your generation was so interested in messing with their canopies.
Now I look back and realize it was a 'transitional period' in sport parachuting that will never happen again (atleast not in my lifetime).
Jumpers today don't think like you guys did (and still do). They don't have to anymore -everything is already invented and readily available for a price.
I don't know if its was better or not back then but it was sure interesting to watch.
I wonder many jumpers today would consider modifying their main with ideas they themselves thought of and then test jumping it? It all changes when its 'your ass' in the rig @ 7200 ft.
I'll bet it was the same at every drop zone in the country to some degree 35 years ago and a sign of the times. If you 'ain't got it then it hasn't been invented so you gotta make it yourself - knock yourself out'


Jim_Hooper  (D 4019)

Oct 4, 2007, 7:13 AM
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Re: [JumpUpMyAss] What is this canopy? #6 [In reply to] Can't Post

Before my 'Super 26' was stolen, I reduced the pack volume on my ParaCommander by taking six feet off the suspension lines and removing the stabilizer panels, immediately discovering why they were called stabilizers. Gave it away, did the 26', then had a Thunderbow on which I did about 300 jumps, then a Paradactyl, a Starlight, and finally, when I had about 1200 jumps, accepted a gratis Strato-flyer from Dick Morgan when the company was pushing it hard. Compared to the others, openings on the Flyer were as gentle as a spring rain. And reliable, inasmuch as I'd chopped away 25 malfunctions up to that point. (Only one in the next 2300.) It really wasn't until the mid- to late-'70s that market forces were enough for manufacturers to invest in R&D. Until then, a canopy served the primary function of getting you safely on the ground so you could go back up for more freefall. Posers of the 'Look-at-me-I've-got-the-latest-matching-gear' variety were as rare as rocking horse shit back then. Reputation depended on how fast, smooth and consistent one was in the air, with no marks at all for how stylish one's ensemble was. (Uh-oh, did I just hear a hint of grumpy old fart there? I think I did.)
Hoop


(This post was edited by Jim_Hooper on Oct 4, 2007, 8:27 AM)


jonstark  (D 8298)

Oct 4, 2007, 7:48 AM
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Re: [JumpUpMyAss] What is this canopy? #6 [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I remember watching guys like you when I started jumping 1975 and thinking to myself 'these guys are nuts'.
The days of the 'Super Cheapo'. At that time I could not understand why your generation was so interested in messing with their canopies.
'

Living on $200/month I didn't have much spare money. Jumps at 7500' were $3.75 so I didn't go that high all the time either. I bought a 28" cheapo for 5$ which was about all I could spare for a canopy. I took that cheapo and removed the guts of the 550 which ran from skirt to apex which removed about a large lunch bag of bulk. I also shortened the lines by 2-3 feet which removed a lot of bulk as well. I liked the drive of a 3TU and the maneuverability of a 7TT so I cut it into a 5TU and put it into a short sleeve. I thought it was hot stuff. Shortly afterwards I inherited a Buchman rig with a Golden Knights' Taffeta tri-con and Strato-Star. That Tri-con was huge with all the reinforcing tape and a bear to pack.

Later, to expedite student jumps after I'd thrown three and followed them out, I would cut away that main. Then I used to take the gutted cheapo, previously S folded into a paper bag with the risers taped to the top, and stash it under the pilots seat. I'd take a load of students up and static-line them out then have the pilot make another pass while I hooked the capewells up to my rig. Climbing out with my back to the wind and the bag tightly cradled in my arms I'd hop off and let go. It was weird to see it go out all banana shaped and open right in front of me. Did it with other canopies too but the cheapo was the funniest looking.

It was all about bulk, light weight and flattest container. The containers got really wide in the late seventies as they were behind the wings of the "wing war" jumpsuits and a belly band would kind of wrap it closer to your waist.

jon


highspeeddirt

Oct 4, 2007, 8:33 AM
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Re: [howardwhite] What is this canopy? #6 [In reply to] Can't Post

got any pictures of Ted Strong"s "Wing Ding" canopy?


kkeenan  (D 22164)

Oct 4, 2007, 10:05 AM
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Re: [Jim_Hooper] What is this canopy? #6 [In reply to] Can't Post

That's a really cool canopy, Hooper. It really sucks to have something like that ripped off after all that work.

Being a poor USAF 3-striper back in '76, I too tried to create a good light-weight, low-volume RW canopy, but with a minimum of work. I took a C-9, stripped the lines out of the canopy, and left the 4-line release on it. I always got funny looks when flying the unmodified 28' with the 4 lines trailing behind. And it was kind of a pain to re-tie the lines after each jump. But you certainly couldn't beat the price. I stood up most of the landings, too. Wink

Kevin K.


Jim_Hooper  (D 4019)

Oct 4, 2007, 11:41 AM
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Re: [kkeenan] What is this canopy? #6 [In reply to] Can't Post

Kimbo - I'm quite sure the spirit of innovation still resides in the hearts of many younger-generation jumpers. In fairness, the equipment 35-odd years ago was extremely basic and actually lent itself to home-made modifications. One would need technical expertise on an order of magnitude over what we had then before tinkering with modern canopies today.

Kevin - as far as having the fruits of my rather crude cut-and-paste job ripped off, could be Fate was looking out for me. Regarding 4-line release, Phil 'Crusty' McLean used used one at Z'hills, as did (I think) Roger 'Ramjet' Clark for a while.

Hoop


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