Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Wing Suit Flying:
Prodigy

 


base754

Aug 20, 2007, 1:51 AM
Post #1 of 24 (1607 views)
Shortcut
Prodigy Can't Post

On average, what would be the ideal vertical speed in a prodigy to obtain the best glide ratio. I herd 75mph roughly, but wanted get a few opinions on this. I am currently working on finding the sweat spot for max glide ratio.Also, when jumping my prodigy it always feels like the wind is trying to rip the grippers away from me, does anyone else feel this. They say you only need light tension on the grippers. I would love to hear from anybody with experience with this suit.c-ya


unclecharlie95  (C 100027)

Aug 20, 2007, 2:48 AM
Post #2 of 24 (1594 views)
Shortcut
Re: [base754] Prodigy [In reply to] Can't Post

Yuri and Mirko are the men to speak to!


KrisFlyZ  (C 34590)

Aug 20, 2007, 3:54 AM
Post #3 of 24 (1575 views)
Shortcut
Re: [unclecharlie95] Prodigy [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Yuri and Mirko are the men to speak to!

Czech Martin said you were flying back to the landing area at the ITW. That is no easy task. Please post your thoughts.

Kris.


base754

Aug 20, 2007, 8:14 AM
Post #4 of 24 (1510 views)
Shortcut
Re: [unclecharlie95] Prodigy [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks, does Yuri post on here often, If not, do you have contact information on him?


KrisFlyZ  (C 34590)

Aug 20, 2007, 8:41 AM
Post #5 of 24 (1502 views)
Shortcut
Re: [base754] Prodigy [In reply to] Can't Post

Yuri posts here as Outrager.

75 mph is way too much downward speed. Yuri is flying his Prodigy at 2.1 L/D that makes the forward speed 157.5mph.

The other way around it is 35 mph vertical. This is what Yuri has said (15m/sec in his words) is the ballpark vertical speed at best glide.


Kris.

(This post was edited by KrisFlyZ on Aug 20, 2007, 9:30 AM)


base754

Aug 20, 2007, 9:08 AM
Post #6 of 24 (1477 views)
Shortcut
Re: [KrisFlyZ] Prodigy [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks!!!!!!!! Wow, thats impressive, but if thats Yuris horizontal speed what would his vertical speed calculate out to being?


Kookaburra  (D 13836)

Aug 20, 2007, 9:44 AM
Post #7 of 24 (1452 views)
Shortcut
Re: [KrisFlyZ] Prodigy [In reply to] Can't Post

Oooooooops... something does not square up there, If the fwd speed is 157 mph and the GR is 2.1.... then the vertical speed should be 78 mph, not 35.... or am I missing something?


robibird  (D 404)

Aug 20, 2007, 9:52 AM
Post #8 of 24 (1445 views)
Shortcut
Re: [KrisFlyZ] Prodigy [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Yuri is flying his Prodigy at 2.1 L/D that makes the forward speed 157.5mph.
In reply to:

yuri certainly flying very well, but no man on earth fly any wing suit w this speed. just check norway video and see the comparison between full flight Prodigy and coming to him V2....

In reply to:
The other way around it is 35 mph vertical. This is what Yuri has said (15m/sec in his words) is the ballpark vertical speed at best glide.

answer to this is : Impossible!!!

Smile


KrisFlyZ  (C 34590)

Aug 20, 2007, 10:49 AM
Post #9 of 24 (1426 views)
Shortcut
Re: [robibird] Prodigy [In reply to] Can't Post

Jeez Wink.

I was being sarcastic with the 157.5 mph.

About the 15m/sec, he was not talking specifically about the prodigy. But said any speed sustained below 15m/sec in GPS data should be discarded as spurious.

Kris.


KrisFlyZ  (C 34590)

Aug 20, 2007, 10:56 AM
Post #10 of 24 (1420 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Kookaburra] Prodigy [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Oooooooops... something does not square up there, If the fwd speed is 157 mph and the GR is 2.1.... then the vertical speed should be 78 mph, not 35.... or am I missing something?

Possibly the ability to use a calculator or keyboardTongueSmileSmileSmileWink.

35.xx * 2.1 = 75

75 * 2.1 = 157.5

TongueTongue


pbla4024  (C 2033)

Aug 20, 2007, 12:36 PM
Post #11 of 24 (1392 views)
Shortcut
Re: [KrisFlyZ] Prodigy [In reply to] Can't Post

I did 54 km/h with Phantom once (skydive of course, first half of jump, Pro Track).


base754

Aug 20, 2007, 1:18 PM
Post #12 of 24 (1367 views)
Shortcut
Re: [robibird] Prodigy [In reply to] Can't Post

Okay, well let me try to ask this in a different way. Based, on what the prodigy is realistically capable of achieving horizontally what would your vertical speed need to be to obtain this. I understand there are lots of factors Im sure, so Im not looking for exact data, just a mere estimate so I have something to work toward, the rest Im sure I will work out for time in the air. Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!


The111  (D 29246)

Aug 20, 2007, 1:35 PM
Post #13 of 24 (1359 views)
Shortcut
Re: [base754] Prodigy [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I am currently working on finding the sweat spot for max glide ratio

To find the sweat spot you must wear an all black suit on a very hot and humid day. Walk around on the tarmac for at least 20 minutes before the plane arrives. Before long, you will be sweating profusely. TongueWink

Seriously though, this is going to be entirely dependent on weight and body type, and with all the variables the problem is still way too complex to get any reliable answer here. If you can really control your fallrate that precisely, then here is a simple experiment you can perform to find the answer on your own:

Do a flight at exactly 40mph.
Do a flight at exactly 45mph.
Do a flight at exactly 50mph.
Do a flight at exactly 55mph.
Do a flight at exactly 60mph.
Etc.

Wear GPS on all flights and compare results. Go through your data and make a graph of your glide ratio vs your fallrate. When you're done with that, throw it away because it's meaningless. Laugh Just as there are too many variables to analyze, there are too many to control during the jump. Add to that the fact that I can fall 60mph STRAIGHT DOWN or I can fly very fast forward at 60mph fallrate, and you realize that there is no direct correlation between fallrate and glide ratio only. Whatever your max glide ratio is, you may be able to get it at 2 entirely different fallrates, and even everything in between with different body positions. With an airplane with only flaps for control it's a different picture... but we have too much surface area we are able to move.


(This post was edited by The111 on Aug 20, 2007, 1:41 PM)


outrager

Aug 20, 2007, 2:20 PM
Post #14 of 24 (1333 views)
Shortcut
Re: [KrisFlyZ] Prodigy [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
75 mph is way too much downward speed. Yuri is flying his Prodigy at 2.1 L/D that makes the forward speed 157.5mph.

You should stop pulling the numbers out of your, errr, back door.

35mph is a ballpark for S3 and Vampires. Prodigy on skydives last year was measuring in 60mph avg range. Thinking about it, i never measured vertical on recent base flights. Vertical speed is a bit slower now - maybe Robi can time Kjerag flights from the video? That would also get a rough idea about horizontal speed.

2.0 is a glide from the best flight, average ones would be more like 1.7. That's plenty to fly over the bar at ITW, but not enough to make many of the other interesting sites.

There's one feature that makes Prodigy a unique choice for some of the gnarliest sites, though: you can do a massive running exit, clearing huge ledges, and you can also safely pull very low.


KrisFlyZ  (C 34590)

Aug 20, 2007, 2:42 PM
Post #15 of 24 (1319 views)
Shortcut
Re: [outrager] Prodigy [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
75 mph is way too much downward speed. Yuri is flying his Prodigy at 2.1 L/D that makes the forward speed 157.5mph.

You should stop pulling the numbers out of your, errr, back door.

If you spent one sec thinking it would have been obvious that the 157.5 was posted to show that 75 mph is an unrealistic downward speed. Jeez, you seem really eager to jump at a chance to ridicule me. I gotta ask. Wink Did ya score some brownie points? Tongue

The 2.1 came from this post . Are you in the habit of posting numbers out of your, err, back door? LaughTongueSmile

Kris.

(This post was edited by KrisFlyZ on Aug 20, 2007, 2:43 PM)


Kookaburra  (D 13836)

Aug 20, 2007, 11:03 PM
Post #16 of 24 (1239 views)
Shortcut
Re: [KrisFlyZ] Prodigy [In reply to] Can't Post

Ever thought of another pseudonym? Something like KrisSmartAss for instance Tongue


Kookaburra  (D 13836)

Aug 21, 2007, 12:30 AM
Post #17 of 24 (1226 views)
Shortcut
Re: [base754] Prodigy [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually I find your query very pertinent... first when the grippers are trying to escape our little hands it's because the wing is in a deep stall and the vertical speed (VS) has increased, when the wing does not act as a parachute but really fly smoothly, ideally laminar, then we can hold the grippers lightly, no sweat, also we can feel air passing overhead, so it's not too hard to know whether we are flying or just falling and we can use that to monitor VS as an indication of the type of flight we are doing either for time or for distance. Logically VS would be slower for time and faster for distance. So knowing what is the optimum VS for either, a brief look at Viso set for speed would tell us about the flight configuration. So far we don't have a real-time way of checking flight parameters with GPS (unless Herwig comes up with it) besides the fact that GPS is relative to ground, not ambient air, so not really indicative of GR... so the idea of checking VS is very valid as far as I am concerned... untill we become really perceptive like the pro... afterall birds don't need all that electronic, do they? or to paraphrase Virgil, "They fly because they think they fly" Crazy


muero

Aug 21, 2007, 4:58 AM
Post #18 of 24 (1188 views)
Shortcut
Re: [base754] Prodigy [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok, I have read all these threads and I like to say that I have my own intension from these things.

The first is, that hold the wings easy with just two fingers is absolutely doable. When there is more preasure, it would say to me that you open the armwings to much. When I fly the prod to the bar, than i have medium armwings stretched, easy to hold, bent upper body, head down, feel the air keeping my rig lifting up...stretched legs totally...and make as less bodypositionchangings as possible during the flight....

I use a gps as well but like some others say as well, I try to fly a good position, with a overall highspeed and than I have a look if the glideratio is better or not....I will never try to fly a direct speed or a special fallrate, cause to many facts are important to this and we all have different bodysizes, weights, etc...

But the GPS is a perfect indicator to watch if you make steps forward.

When I see Yuri flying, he uses a more stretched armwing, but he flys more atmonauti-style. This is not really easy and keeps more power to hold the wings.

In my beginnings I try just to fly fast, as fast as possible and than I reduce the fallrate softly(with more arms and upperbody-bents), but this reduces the speed as well...controlled this by a GPS, you will quickly see where your best possible glideratio is to find.

...Just my intension...Wink

Mirko


ScottGray  (D 29628)

Aug 21, 2007, 5:24 PM
Post #19 of 24 (1111 views)
Shortcut
Re: [base754] Prodigy [In reply to] Can't Post

I have trained a number of students using the Prodigy suit and made a number of jumps on them as well. My brother started his wing suit flights using the Prodigy. - All of these full altitude skydives - I have yet to meet someone who uses one as their primary suit. I would think most would be BASE jumpers.

While far from optimized flights, I would be hard pressed to see vertical speeds less than mid - upper sixties with a good pilot maxed out. I have seen some good forward speeds. BUT IMHO, there is no substitute for greater surface area in a well designed configuration. When I am training students on the prodigy I typically jump an aerobatic wing suit, which gives me much more range and speed relatively speaking.

What I like about the platform is the ease of transition for students into doing a wing suit flight.

My students average in the high 80s to low 90s vertical speed.


The111  (D 29246)

Aug 21, 2007, 7:57 PM
Post #20 of 24 (1098 views)
Shortcut
Re: [ScottGray] Prodigy [In reply to] Can't Post

I've jumped a Prodigy exactly once, a long time ago... I just pulled the Paralog and while I averaged around 70mph for the dive, I had a 20 second section of steady 50-55mph flight.


(This post was edited by The111 on Aug 21, 2007, 7:58 PM)


BlindBrick  (C 35382)

Aug 22, 2007, 8:00 AM
Post #21 of 24 (1039 views)
Shortcut
Re: [base754] Prodigy [In reply to] Can't Post

I am 350 lbs out the door with my Prodigy which gives me a W/L of 1:"Really Fuckin Insane" and I can get my vertical down to the mid-90's if I go for slow fall. Going for horizontal speed I get a fall rate of around 130 mph.

-Blind


(This post was edited by BlindBrick on Aug 22, 2007, 8:01 AM)


base754

Aug 22, 2007, 8:14 AM
Post #22 of 24 (1029 views)
Shortcut
Re: [BlindBrick] Prodigy [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow, your a big guy, but thats hauling some serious ass.............How does your forward speed feel during these jumps?


pattersd  (D License)

Aug 22, 2007, 11:59 AM
Post #23 of 24 (1000 views)
Shortcut
Re: [ScottGray] Prodigy [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm 5'10 245Lbs out the door and was getting mid to low sixties with a Prodigy last summer, probably put about thirty jumps on it. Maxed out in the Prodigy was very similar to relaxed in my S3, the forward speed of the prodigy was not as much as the S3 though.
I would think that someone with a more advantageous wing suit build would be able to improve on my numbers.


BlindBrick  (C 35382)

Aug 22, 2007, 1:00 PM
Post #24 of 24 (983 views)
Shortcut
Re: [base754] Prodigy [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Wow, your a big guy, but thats hauling some serious ass.............How does your forward speed feel during these jumps?

It didn't feel particuarly fast to me, but multiple people on the ground said I was overtaking the C-182 I exited from, before I turned away.

-Blind



Forums : Skydiving Disciplines : Wing Suit Flying

 


Search for (options)