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Tandem exits

 

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tqsmile  (D 855)

Aug 6, 2007, 5:01 AM
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Tandem exits Can't Post

I have close to a 1000 tandems and a couple of jumps back have started leaving the plane in a tumble instead of the big arch,after pass have requested summies,so I experimented. We do around 2 t0 3 and then I tap their shoulders and we both arch. boom stable.gives great handcam footage.
It feels for me that when I leave in a big arch it takes longer to get the tandem to drogue throw and with the tumble exit it feels quicker and, well, easier and more fun for all.I still feel safe and am still flying the tandem and always aware what the student is doing. We stay on heading and iliminates spins for me. not that I have had many.
Would like to hear your comments


aliveboy2004  (D License)

Aug 6, 2007, 6:04 AM
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Re: [tqsmile] Tandem exits [In reply to] Can't Post

Frown wow - sounds like fun!! if they don't arch when they are supposed to you might even get to experience the added excitement of the ever popular 'sidespin'.
Mad sorry - but think that you're risking your passengers safety (PA removed by slotperfect


(This post was edited by slotperfect on Aug 6, 2007, 6:20 AM)


tqsmile  (D 855)

Aug 6, 2007, 6:12 AM
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Re: [aliveboy2004] Tandem exits [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool was expecting this kinda feedback.
You are still flying the tandem and after good briefing with your student you can anticipate there actions.All sidespins I have seen and been in was from big arch from exit. My feeling is that I have built up speed,both our bodies are together and on arching I am in control.You have more than enough time to prevent a sidespinCrazy
This is not the norm for me but if I am confident in the student,we will go and fly


(This post was edited by tqsmile on Aug 6, 2007, 6:14 AM)


Premier slotperfect  (D 13014)

Aug 6, 2007, 6:21 AM
Post #4 of 69 (5246 views)
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Re: [aliveboy2004] Tandem exits [In reply to] Can't Post

PAs are not tolerated in the forums. Feel free to post your opinion on the technique/behavior, but please leave the insults out of it.


aliveboy2004  (D License)

Aug 6, 2007, 6:27 AM
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Re: [tqsmile] Tandem exits [In reply to] Can't Post

wow, if you can anticipate your passangers actions - I am really impressed with your skills. I've had students that have forgotten their name when they left the door.
But as long as it's 'more fun' (as you said in your initial post) - you should just keep going with what you're doing. Maybe you can add some 'head down' flying in with it to add a little more exitement.
Good luck with it all - hope you don't end up killing your student and yourself just so you can have 'more fun' Unsure


Peej  (B 2456)

Aug 6, 2007, 6:52 AM
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Re: [tqsmile] Tandem exits [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not a TM but have done a few hundred tandem vids with for or five different TM's. And I've seen a few different types of exits.

The regular guy that i jump with likes to exit poised facing the prop and deploy the drogue from there. Another guy that i have jumped with loves to gainer, ie backwards flip out the door, another one likes to dive out and the last one always front flips off the plane, does two or three rotations, get's stable and deploys the drogue.

All the TI's i have flown with are quite capable of hooking the passenger's legs with their own though and won't hesitate to do it if they are not arching properly.


peek  (D 8884)

Aug 6, 2007, 7:23 AM
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Re: [tqsmile] Tandem exits [In reply to] Can't Post

Unlike some of the critics I can understand your feeling of success with unstable exits. I have always felt that tandem students are going to be tense at exit time and then relax after a few seconds of freefall.

It is possible that they relax about the time you get stable and throw the drogue, so this perhaps makes things feel good to you.

However!

Training your student to do stable exits after having explained the relative wind and how it all works can teach them a lot more about skydiving than doing flips.

And if you can train your students to do a _truly_ good arch along with you, I am quite sure that you will feel stable and ready to throw the drogue even sooner. (I always have.)

It doesn't mean you will always be able to do this, but it is a very worthy goal.


johnny1488  (D 25453)

Aug 6, 2007, 7:54 AM
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Re: [tqsmile] Tandem exits [In reply to] Can't Post

I love the people who think thatsidespins and instability are the boogie man out to get you.

It's physics. There is no mystery. If you teach them to arch well, awesome. If you have to outfly them, oh well.

Have fun, but make sure you are doing it for them and not just for you.

That being said I like unstable exits too, helps me practice my flying.


Peej  (B 2456)

Aug 6, 2007, 8:10 AM
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Re: [peek] Tandem exits [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Training your student to do stable exits after having explained the relative wind and how it all works can teach them a lot more about skydiving than doing flips.

Just FYI, here in SA we don't offer Tandem progression, it's either a tandem and then AFF or straight into AFF. (We also offer static line at some dz's). So there is very little teaching going on during tandem jumps here, most passengers that come through to do them treat them like an amusement park ride. If they decide to keep skydiving they come back and sit through an FJC and do all the schooling before AFF.


diablopilot  (D License)

Aug 6, 2007, 9:07 AM
Post #10 of 69 (5178 views)
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Re: [tqsmile] Tandem exits [In reply to] Can't Post

Sure unstable exits are fun, but I don't do them intentionaly anymore with first time students.

Tandems are an introduction to skydiving, not a carnival ride. Are you and Instructor, or just some guy who give people a "ride". It takes more talent to produce stable exits than it does to flop out the door.

You have no way of being sure that your student will co-opperate when it comes time to get stable.

If you have a premeture drogue deployment you'll be in a world of hurt. Ask Greg Hunter.

You are putting HUGE amounts of extra stress on the gear leading to shorter lifespans and damages. Check with the gear owner and see how much they like repair bills and replacement parts.


peek  (D 8884)

Aug 6, 2007, 10:48 AM
Post #11 of 69 (5140 views)
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Re: [Peej] Tandem exits [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
... here in SA ... there is very little teaching going on during tandem jumps here, most passengers that come through to do them treat them like an amusement park ride.

Warning: Partial thread hijack.

Understood. It seems like in many places around the world this is the case. But why? I think it is because skydivers and DZs get into the habit of treating them like that, then the students experience it as that, then a downward spiral occurs into a carnival.

But what if the original poster began doing some serious instruction on his tandem jumps. And what if his students showed their video to others and they came to the DZ expecting to learn to skydive!

Then you could be saying, "In SA we treat all tandem jumps as skydiving instruction, not like carnival rides."

Wouldn't that be cool? That's why I was suggesting to the original poster the aspects of training mentioned.


tqsmile  (D 855)

Aug 7, 2007, 2:18 AM
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Re: [aliveboy2004] Tandem exits [In reply to] Can't Post

Why Thank you, Just to know where you coming from?No disrespect intended. How many tandems have you done,what aircraft do you use and what is your skydiving history.Smile


tqsmile  (D 855)

Aug 7, 2007, 2:38 AM
Post #13 of 69 (5014 views)
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Re: [tqsmile] Tandem exits [In reply to] Can't Post

WinkThanks to all who have had good inputs,not just shooting me down.I have read and will use,thankyou.
I do not offer carnival rides and do give my passangers a background of skydiving.I talk to them about wind,spotting while in the plane,why we spot where,explain turning while in freefall,why we open at certain altitudes.While under canopy,they fly and I teach them again about wind direction relative to the DZ.
Most of our passangers are tourists who have a to do list,I still give them the run down.
We jump a c182 so floating tandem exits are seldom.
Couple of your exits will tumble anyway.
As I said before tumble exits are not a norm
I feel I am safe out there and not out to kill myself or my pass.
variety is the spice of life.
Thanks again for the inputWink


aliveboy2004  (D License)

Aug 7, 2007, 5:41 AM
Post #14 of 69 (4988 views)
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Re: [tqsmile] Tandem exits [In reply to] Can't Post

no problem
2000+ tandems
4000+ skydives
exit from an otter


tqsmile  (D 855)

Aug 7, 2007, 5:47 AM
Post #15 of 69 (4986 views)
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Re: [aliveboy2004] Tandem exits [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice


Peej  (B 2456)

Aug 7, 2007, 6:26 AM
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Re: [peek] Tandem exits [In reply to] Can't Post

Point taken Smile

Like i said i am no TI, just a vidiot, and i have seen a few of the guys i jump with ask the student whether they feel that this would be something they'd like to continue with and then brief them on the pull, etc etc. but for the most part there is none of that. Maybe it's something we should be looking at.


peek  (D 8884)

Aug 7, 2007, 7:43 AM
Post #17 of 69 (4971 views)
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Re: [Peej] Tandem exits [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
... i have seen a few of the guys i jump with ask the student whether they feel that this would be something they'd like to continue with and then brief them on the pull...

And there might be a number of students that, (if taught how to skydive on a tandem jump), would continue instead of just thinking of it as a one time thing.

There are also some students that at first act like they do not want to learn these things, but once you teach them, they enjoy it very much.

Of all the students that I have done this with, only about 2 have been ho-hum about having learned what I taught them. The rest were quite happy they did, with some of them being very happy.

As you might be able to tell, I am a rather fervent promoter of tandem instruction right from the first jump. The effort I put out has always repaid me with having a great time watching my student's accomplishments and their delight in having done them.

(I told you all it was a thread hijack.)


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Aug 7, 2007, 9:32 AM
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Re: [peek] Tandem exits [In reply to] Can't Post

peek,

I may not be as fervent a TI as you, but I still try to start by showing tandem students a good, stable exit and the standard "boxed" landing pattern.

If they already have a mental picture of the perfect skydive, it becomes much easier to teach them in the classroom.


NSEMN8R  (D 26397)

Aug 8, 2007, 6:49 AM
Post #19 of 69 (4857 views)
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Re: [tqsmile] Tandem exits [In reply to] Can't Post

Everyone at our dz used to do 2 front flips and then tap them to start arching. I videod them doing that for about 3 years and I did my first few hundred like that. Then all the experienced guys left and I read on here that you shouldn't do flips so I started going out flat and stable.

Now I'm starting to think it doesn't really matter much. I leave it up to the student. If they want to do flips, I'm not afraid. I tell them that if they are going to pursue it they'll learn more if we work on a stable exit. And I tell them about all of the things I can teach them like freefall turns and forward movement and the correct way to wave off and pull... And I explain the S/L program to them and tell them about our $99 second jump deal becase I really want most of them to come back. But it's their money. If a dude knows he's only going to do it once and just wants video of himself doing flips out of a plane, I'm happy to show him a good time doing it.


OnYourBack  (D 25190)

Aug 8, 2007, 9:41 AM
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Re: [NSEMN8R] Tandem exits [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
But it's their money. If a dude knows he's only going to do it once and just wants video of himself doing flips out of a plane, I'm happy to show him a good time doing it.

Wuffos don't know what they want. You have to train them to want to come back. Crazy


diablopilot  (D License)

Aug 8, 2007, 8:17 PM
Post #21 of 69 (4761 views)
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Re: [NSEMN8R] Tandem exits [In reply to] Can't Post

How many tandems do you have?


NSEMN8R  (D 26397)

Aug 9, 2007, 4:19 AM
Post #22 of 69 (4734 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] Tandem exits [In reply to] Can't Post

About 900.


Andrewwhyte  (C 1988)

Aug 9, 2007, 8:06 AM
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Re: [diablopilot] Tandem exits [In reply to] Can't Post

I would never accept a student for training who doesn't speak english; would you accept a tandem student who doesn't speak a language you are fluent in?


diablopilot  (D License)

Aug 9, 2007, 8:40 AM
Post #24 of 69 (4710 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] Tandem exits [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, provided I had the time to trainthem and a translator to get the message delivered. What's your point? How does this relate to doing stable exits?


Mixoligist  (D 26787)

Aug 9, 2007, 9:53 AM
Post #25 of 69 (4693 views)
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Re: [Andrewwhyte] Tandem exits [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
would you accept a tandem student who doesn't speak a language you are fluent in?

Done it at least 25 times....you don't need words to show someone what to do.


(This post was edited by Mixoligist on Aug 9, 2007, 9:53 AM)


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