Forums: Skydiving: General Skydiving Discussions:
Jump with a tandem?

 

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shibbayshib  (B 32363)

Jul 17, 2007, 11:25 AM
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Jump with a tandem? Can't Post

Hey guys. I just got my A license and have been trying to get some of my friends out to the drop zone to at least do a tandem. Besides the money excuse, they ask me if I could jump out with them. Obviously I couldn't be their JM with 38 jumps, but I was wondering: How many jumps/what USPA rating do need to jump with a tandem?


DougH  (D License)

Jul 17, 2007, 11:28 AM
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Re: [shibbayshib] Jump with a tandem? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it goes by the manf.

While I don't agree that it can only be done by D license holders with 500 jumps I don't think 38 jumps is close to meeting the proficiency needed.

You will be adding unnecessary risk to an already complicated jump. Your friends will have a great skydive without you being in freefall with them.


AggieDave  (D License)

Jul 17, 2007, 11:30 AM
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Re: [shibbayshib] Jump with a tandem? [In reply to] Can't Post

You typically need 500 jumps, a TI or AFF rating. Some DZs let that slide if the jumper is a video guy, but all in all its not all that great.

Go on the plane with your friend, jump out before your friend and be in the landing area when they land. That's the best thing you can do until you get a lot more experience. Go read the tandem fatality report if you doubt that.


jtval  (D 26340)

Jul 17, 2007, 11:30 AM
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Re: [shibbayshib] Jump with a tandem? [In reply to] Can't Post

Strong (tandem manufacturer) says 500 jumps (and you must have your AFF rating, i think)


USPAs recommendation is slightly less strict but I don't know the exact requirements. Read the SIM at uspa.org.


talk to your TM/S&TA/DZO.


If they think you have the experience they may let you.

I.E. If you have tons of tunnel experience....numbers may not represent experience.


TheBachelor  (D 22560)

Jul 17, 2007, 11:30 AM
Post #5 of 36 (3435 views)
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Re: [shibbayshib] Jump with a tandem? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've found that it's up to the jumpmaster. I didn't even ask until I had over 500 jumps.


jtval  (D 26340)

Jul 17, 2007, 11:32 AM
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Re: [TheBachelor] Jump with a tandem? [In reply to] Can't Post

well, that's the easy answer.Tongue


As a disclaimer I usually add the requirements. Most people have no clue that such requirements existShocked


freefalle  (D 27777)

Jul 17, 2007, 11:34 AM
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Re: [shibbayshib] Jump with a tandem? [In reply to] Can't Post

It depends on the tandem master, I believe the USPA recommends that anyone jumping with a tandem be a tandem instructor or aff instructor.

I personally am pretty particular about who I will let lurk my tandems, I need to know them and know their skill level in order to be comfortable enough to do it, I can pretty well assure you that with a skydiver with 38 jumps, is not going to lurk a tandem with me. I don't mean to sound like an ass but I just wouldn't feel comfortable with it.

Enjoy your progression, enjoy improving your skill there will be plenty of tandems for you to lurk in the future


jtval  (D 26340)

Jul 17, 2007, 11:38 AM
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Re: [freefalle] Jump with a tandem? [In reply to] Can't Post

for the Original poster.

SIM


Booster_MPS  (C 36331)

Jul 17, 2007, 11:49 AM
Post #9 of 36 (3396 views)
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Re: [shibbayshib] Jump with a tandem? [In reply to] Can't Post

Please don't take this as being harsh......

With an A license and only a few jumps there are FAR too many things that can go wrong to consider this. Even if you did not get hurt, having a tandem jump that did not go as planned would take away from your friend's experience. Let them enjoy the jump under the care of a JM - there should be nothing to distract them from the experience.

The list of things that could go wrong to injure somebody are far too great to list. My DZ would not even consider it for that reason.


Icon134  (D 29820)

Jul 17, 2007, 12:08 PM
Post #10 of 36 (3367 views)
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Re: [Booster_MPS] Jump with a tandem? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Please don't take this as being harsh......
for what its worth I don't get the impression that the OP was looking to being able to actually do it... they seemed to be merely looking to get guidance about what the requirements actually were...

and I think its been answered... a few times over in fact... Tongue

edited to add: having just scanned the SIM the closest thing I can find refering to jumping with tandems is in the camera flying (advanced progression) section and it references the Instructional Rating Manual (and since my IRM is at home I'll have to look at it later) Blush


(This post was edited by Icon134 on Jul 17, 2007, 12:21 PM)


BigSky  (B 28752)

Jul 17, 2007, 12:08 PM
Post #11 of 36 (3367 views)
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Re: [jtval] Jump with a tandem? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
for the Original poster.

SIM

I must be missing it. I have looked around for an exact number of jumps or license to jump with a tandem but I dont see it in the sim.


jtval  (D 26340)

Jul 17, 2007, 12:23 PM
Post #12 of 36 (3346 views)
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Re: [BigSky] Jump with a tandem? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I must be missing it. I have looked around for an exact number of jumps or license to jump with a tandem but I dont see it in the sim.


You can get some info from
6-8 camera flying section. Although one may not be flying camera, I would use it if I was looking for a reference.


Icon134  (D 29820)

Jul 17, 2007, 12:29 PM
Post #13 of 36 (3337 views)
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Re: [jtval] Jump with a tandem? [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Refer to the USPA Instructional Rating Manual for guidelines on minimum experience and qualifications for flying camera for student training jumps.


a. A skydiver should have extensive camera flying experience with experienced jumpers prior to photographing or videoing student jumps.

b. The USPA Instructor supervising the jump should conduct a thorough briefing with the camera flyer prior to boarding.

c. All procedures and the camera plan should be shared among the USPA Coach or Instructor, the camera flyer, and the student making the jump.



(This post was edited by Icon134 on Jul 17, 2007, 12:31 PM)


jtval  (D 26340)

Jul 17, 2007, 12:43 PM
Post #14 of 36 (3319 views)
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Re: [Icon134] Jump with a tandem? [In reply to] Can't Post

It also states (paraphrase)

videot should have 50 jumps on current gear.

the OP doesn have 50 jumps, period.


Icon134  (D 29820)

Jul 17, 2007, 12:44 PM
Post #15 of 36 (3317 views)
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Re: [jtval] Jump with a tandem? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It also states (paraphrase)

videot should have 50 jumps on current gear.

the OP doesn have 50 jumps, period.
it does... Blush


jtval  (D 26340)

Jul 17, 2007, 12:52 PM
Post #16 of 36 (3305 views)
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Re: [Icon134] Jump with a tandem? [In reply to] Can't Post

. General


a. Prior to jumping, a skydiver should have enough general jump experience to be able to handle any skydiving emergency or minor problem easily and without stress.

b. A camera flyer should possess freefall flying skills well above average and applicable to the planned jump.


(1) belly-to-earth

(2) freeflying (upright and head-down)

(3) canopy formation

(4) multiple (for skysurfing, filming student training jumps, etc.)

c. A USPA C license is recommended.

d. The jumper should have made at least 50 recent jumps on the same parachute equipment to be used for camera flying,


C-license =200jumps.


Icon134  (D 29820)

Jul 17, 2007, 1:01 PM
Post #17 of 36 (3292 views)
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Re: [jtval] Jump with a tandem? [In reply to] Can't Post

the only real problem with this information is that it is primarily in reference to camera flying which the OP hasn't actually expressed an interest in doing...

which is why I chose the reference I did...


BigSky  (B 28752)

Jul 17, 2007, 1:03 PM
Post #18 of 36 (3287 views)
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Re: [jtval] Jump with a tandem? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ya I found all that but never found anything in black and white that says you need x amount of jumps or what license to jump with a tandem.


jtval  (D 26340)

Jul 17, 2007, 1:15 PM
Post #19 of 36 (3270 views)
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Re: [BigSky] Jump with a tandem? [In reply to] Can't Post

back to my origianl post.(though I dont know where to find the info)

500 jumps and a rating.(according to strong manuf.)


Icon,
I understood why you added the text you did.
but if a cam flyer can not jump with someone until the minimum "reccommendations" I doubt a non camerflyer can jump with them.


the point being, that with any luck at all the OP read the SIM, came across the text you posted first(since it is first in the sim) then came across the text I posted and learned something.


diablopilot  (D License)

Jul 17, 2007, 1:24 PM
Post #20 of 36 (3257 views)
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Re: [DougH] Jump with a tandem? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
While I don't agree that it can only be done by D license holders with 500 jumps

That's a manufacturer's requirement, and for good reason.


jtval  (D 26340)

Jul 17, 2007, 1:42 PM
Post #21 of 36 (3237 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] Jump with a tandem? [In reply to] Can't Post

JP,
I'm not challenging you. I know that to be true, but do you know where I could find the reference?


I know I could get it when I talk to Simon, My Rigger, but is there an online version of the text?


Icon134  (D 29820)

Jul 17, 2007, 2:04 PM
Post #22 of 36 (3211 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] Jump with a tandem? [In reply to] Can't Post

I just pulled out my IRM (It's Edition 4: 2004)

Section 4-5 of the tandem instructor rating course section references "Minimum experience qualifications" for flying video for a tandem (i.e. student jumps)

3. Minimum experience qualifications:

a. 300 group freefall skydives
b. 50 jumps flying camera with experienced jumpers


then it goes into some considerations for jumpers photographing tandems...


(This post was edited by Icon134 on Jul 17, 2007, 2:06 PM)


DougH  (D License)

Jul 17, 2007, 2:18 PM
Post #23 of 36 (3193 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] Jump with a tandem? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
While I don't agree that it can only be done by D license holders with 500 jumps

That's a manufacturer's requirement, and for good reason.

I left out safely accidentally from my comment.

I won't argue with your real life tandem experience. Smile

But I don't agree for one second that the tandem manf. recommendations are 100% safety based; while they are motivated by safety they are also trying to protect themselves from legal liability.

If safety was the only consideration I would expect to see the SIM and manf. recommendations match? More so why isn't the vid requirement higher than 500 jumps, doesn't flying video add even more risk than just flying with the tandem?

Either way my main point was that he should just let his friends know they are better off enjoying their skydives without him being in the air with them. Tongue


(This post was edited by DougH on Jul 17, 2007, 2:45 PM)


diablopilot  (D License)

Jul 17, 2007, 2:26 PM
Post #24 of 36 (3184 views)
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Re: [DougH] Jump with a tandem? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
If safety was the only consideration I would expect to see the SIM and manf. recommendations match? More so why isn't the vid requirement higher than 500 jumps, doesn't flying video add even more risk that just flying with the tandem?

Questions I have posed to USPA officials without result.


diablopilot  (D License)

Jul 17, 2007, 2:59 PM
Post #25 of 36 (3166 views)
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Re: [jtval] Jump with a tandem? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
JP,
I'm not challenging you. I know that to be true, but do you know where I could find the reference?


I know I could get it when I talk to Simon, My Rigger, but is there an online version of the text?


Quote:
SIGMA TANDEM SYSTEM OWNERS MANUAL
Page2:X Section 5: Student Techniques Chapter 3 - Other Activities 11301- 00.00.0000
These guidelines are not optional. They must be followed, or the Tandem Instructor and Tandem rig owner will be in
violation of the User Agreement under which Tandem jumping is operated and will consequently no longer be
allowed to legally perform Tandem Jumps.
PARTICIPANTSQUALIFICATIONS
For any relative worker to accompany a Tandem pair, the following criteria must be met:
1) Relative worker must have a minimum of 500 relative work skydives; or
2) Relative worker must be either a current Tandem Instructor or a current AFF jumpmaster.
3) Relative worker must have made at least 100 relative work jumps in the last year.
4) Cameramen must meet all the above guidelines, and in addition, must have at least 100 camera jumps.

http://www.relativeworkshop.com/...0TANDEM%20MANUAL.pdf


(This post was edited by diablopilot on Jul 17, 2007, 3:00 PM)


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