Jun 27, 2007, 2:57 PM
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Landing large American Flags
When flying American flags that are larger than 250 sq. ft., all the way up to 2,ooo sq. ft. and has a weight heavier than 20 lbs to 60 lbs hanging from the bottom of the flag, what is the proper way to land this flag? I have been told that it must be caught by persons on the ground so that no part of the flag ever touches the ground. And I've also been told by another group that it is too dangerous to try to catch the flag and that the flag needs to be declared a banner by the American Legion and that a placement card be given to the person flying the flag so that he is not dishonoring the flag in any way by letting it touch the ground. This way no one has to catch the flag upon landing. Does anyone know the correct way that this should be done?
Jun 27, 2007, 5:22 PM
Post #6 of 65
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Re: [Andy_Copland] Landing large American Flags
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Whats the differance between an American flag and others?
Andy, you have no idea. I've been living here 15 years now and it is staggering how you can go from hero to zero in a few milliseconds if you let the U.S.Flag touch the ground at a demo. Ronnie Smith flew a huge flag into the Jacksonville stadium and flew it over about 20 catchers then cut it away into their arms..... the surge when it left his rig was phenomenal though
billvon (D 16479)
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Jun 27, 2007, 5:30 PM
Post #7 of 65
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Re: [hoyt] Landing large American Flags
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We've jumped 1000 sq ft flags into demos. Sometimes we try to catch them; we fail about half the time. Other times we just chop it at 10 feet.
Jun 28, 2007, 6:15 AM
Post #13 of 65
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Re: [hoyt] Landing large American Flags
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Generally I think the populace (i.e. the american people) accept that the danger of being hit by a 20-100 lb weight hanging below the flag far out weighs the importance of keeping it off the ground.
I watched the raw footage of a 7800 sq ft American flag last weekend... and for what its worth its cutaway about 15 ft from the ground and no one tries to catch the 70 lbs of lead attached to the flag.
edited to add: from what I've heard the goal on larger flags is to get it off the ground as quickly after its landed but not to try and catch it before it lands.
(This post was edited by Icon134 on Jun 28, 2007, 6:17 AM)
Jun 28, 2007, 8:06 AM
Post #16 of 65
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Re: [Icon134] Landing large American Flags
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I believe the intention is to be able to land this flag eventually - Ditch lands the 3500 sq ft one, but this was his first jump with the 7800. The 7800 is heavy enough (~250 lbs) that it has its own round reserve in case the entire container has to be cut away so it won't kill whatever it lands on.
In reply to:
Generally I think the populace (i.e. the american people) accept that the danger of being hit by a 20-100 lb weight hanging below the flag far out weighs the importance of keeping it off the ground.
I watched the raw footage of a 7800 sq ft American flag last weekend... and for what its worth its cutaway about 15 ft from the ground and no one tries to catch the 70 lbs of lead attached to the flag.
edited to add: from what I've heard the goal on larger flags is to get it off the ground as quickly after its landed but not to try and catch it before it lands.
Jun 28, 2007, 8:15 AM
Post #18 of 65
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Re: [Icon134] Landing large American Flags
[In reply to]
In reply to:
Generally I think the populace (i.e. the American people) accept that the danger of being hit by a 20-100 lb weight hanging below the flag far out weighs the importance of keeping it off the ground.
I watched the raw footage of a 7800 sq ft American flag last weekend... and for what its worth its cutaway about 15 ft from the ground and no one tries to catch the 70 lbs of lead attached to the flag.
edited to add: from what I've heard the goal on larger flags is to get it off the ground as quickly after its landed but not to try and catch it before it lands.
Don't kid yourself...there are some that become quite enraged when Old Glory touches the ground.
And unless handled properly, the 'some' can really get an audience to turn ugly against the jumpers...like QUICK.
The A.L. placard works well, but the crowd needs to be informed prior rather than after the fact, and an honest attempt should be made to catch and recover quickly, the 'banner' anyway.
...all possible respect should be shown, and that includes the flag catchers / ground crew / other jumpers landing first, removing their covers and facing the flag as it descends.
Doesn't look real professional to have the 'gang' playing grabass out in front of the audience while waiting for the flag to descend.
And as I told the OP last year, there are better and safer ways to weight a flag that a hanging weight on the bottom.
(This post was edited by airtwardo on Jun 28, 2007, 8:17 AM)
Jun 28, 2007, 8:52 AM
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Re: [airtwardo] Landing large American Flags
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I've been trying to post this for a couple days, but this website has been screwed up ... AGAIN ... seems to be lot of that happening, but what I wanted to say is ...
Here's something all potential flag jumpers should consider. While it looks spectactular to display an American flag under canopy, it is, by tradition and not law, that the flag of the United States of America should never be allowed to touch the ground. Folks with a military background usually have a better understanding of this tradition, but it is more well known by US citizens without military service than many jumpers understand. Demo jumpers who drop the flag on the ground, whether by accident or by intention, go from champ to chump in the eyes of many spectators at the demo the instant that US flag hits the ground. I've done a few flag demos myself, although not with the gigantic sizes being jumped today, but I can speak from personal experience as both a flag jumper and a spectator. I fell down landing a Paraplane with a US flag attached above the risers and failed to stop the flag from hitting the ground. I didn't mean to let it hit the ground but it did. The crowd cheered, etc. etc. and all seemed okay, but a while later, a military vet came over to talk to me. He didn't cop an attitude, was real polite about it, but he felt he needed to explain how much seeing the flag of his country dropped on the ground affected him. I stopped doing jumps with a US flag after that. Peoples' patriotism and their feelings and emotions about the US flag and what it represents to them isn't something any jumper is going to change, no matter how well it is explained about the complexities and potential dangers of catching a flag, especially the big ones. I flew loads for Jay Stokes' 640 leap jumpathon last summer. One of the teams that helped sponsor Jay's effort capped the end of the 24-hour jumpathon by jumping a huge American flag. There were probably 1500 to 2000 people who watched the flag jump and there were lots of oohs and ahhs, but when that flag hit the ground, dead on the landing mat the jumper was aiming for, there were more than a few people in the crowd of spectators who took offense. A few negative comments about that flag jump were about the only negative vibes that came out of Jay's jumpathon. A lot of folks can't or won't understand this sentiment, but that doesn't change the fact that dropping the Stars and Stripes on the ground is insulting to many citizens of the United States. There are other banners available that have all the same colors as the US flag, look just as good in the air, and won't piss people off when it settles to the ground because, even though that banner may have a blue patch with white stars and some red and white stripes on it, it isn't considered the flag of the United States of America. Just a little something for all you current and future demo jumpers to consider. Even if the demo goes perfectly, when the Stars and Stripes hits the ground, there will be more spectators than you will ever believe who will leave the demo site with the opinion that skydivers are a disrespectful group ... and nobody need to leave that sentiment in the minds of the folks who watched the show.
Jun 28, 2007, 9:17 AM
Post #21 of 65
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Re: [Zing] Landing large American Flags
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Good post. I've always wondered about the logic of not wanting a flag to touch the good earth of the nation it represents. I suppose logic doesn't enter into it. Defining a flag to be a "banner" defies all logic too.
Do other nations have similar hangups about their flags? I know the UK doesn't.
Jun 28, 2007, 9:23 AM
Post #22 of 65
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Re: [kallend] Landing large American Flags
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I think its one of those things somewhat unique to the United States. Perhaps it defies logic, but that doesn't change the fact that dropping the US flag on the ground is bad pr. In some parts of the world one never offers another person something with the left hand, in others, one never shows the bottom of the foot to other people, and in the US, you never drop the flag on the ground. Its just the way it is.
BTW, to set the record straight... even though I am mexican, I beleive this guy is waaay over-the-top with his patriotism. Not to say that the people who do Big Brother Australia weren't stupid and should have known better than to do something which was evidently going to be seen as disrespectful and offensive by many, DUH!
Jun 28, 2007, 10:34 AM
Post #24 of 65
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Re: [kallend] Landing large American Flags
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In reply to:
Do other nations have similar hangups about their flags? I know the UK doesn't.
Pardon me, Kallend.
With respect to not wanting the U.S. flag touching the ground, its not a "hangup".
If you don't understand that and/or don't have a problem with the Union Jack drug on the dirt, I'm okay with either of those, but don't refer the U.S. flag being dropped on the ground as a "hangup".
Thanks.
Sorry all for the Offtopic-ness... Now back On Topic.
(This post was edited by ZigZagMarquis on Jun 28, 2007, 10:51 AM)
Jun 28, 2007, 10:37 AM
Post #25 of 65
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Re: [Zing] Landing large American Flags
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In reply to:
I think its one of those things somewhat unique to the United States. Perhaps it defies logic, but that doesn't change the fact that dropping the US flag on the ground is bad pr. In some parts of the world one never offers another person something with the left hand, in others, one never shows the bottom of the foot to other people, and in the US, you never drop the flag on the ground. Its just the way it is.
There are several things one needs to be aware of regarding respect to the flag.
One is to never have another flag flying higher than Old Glory.
We use state flags, military flags, corporate flags etc. and they ALL are on the ground while the US flag is still at 1000 feet.
Another is not having 'advertising' above the flag, such as on the bottom skin of the flag carrying canopy...may not seem like a big deal, and several teams are still doing it, (including the Army & Navy) but I too have heard many negative comments in regard to trying to 'commercialize' the nations standard.
It kind of depends on the venue you're jumping into.
(This post was edited by airtwardo on Jun 28, 2007, 10:47 AM)
Landing large American Flags
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