Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
150 container & 170 canopy

 


Squeak  (E 1313)

Nov 22, 2002, 12:11 AM
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150 container & 170 canopy Can't Post

If i use a longer closing loop can i put a 170 canopy in a 135-150 container for a few months?
Before i get a 150 canopy?


indyz  (D 28525)

Nov 22, 2002, 12:27 AM
Post #2 of 17 (1518 views)
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Re: [Squeak] 150 container & 170 canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If i use a longer closing loop can i put a 170 canopy in a 135-150 container for a few months?
Before i get a 150 canopy?
Depends. What size and type of container and what type of main? I have a Spectre 170 shoehorned into a Vector III V344 (sized for a Spectre 150). I'm actually limited by the size of the bag and main container, not the length of the closing loop.


nacmacfeegle  (D 11004)

Nov 22, 2002, 1:43 AM
Post #3 of 17 (1501 views)
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Re: [Squeak] 150 container & 170 canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

If you use a smaller packing 170 such as a 7 cell (eg spectre) you should be okay....
However, if I were you, I'd have a chat with a rigger, and the container manufacturer to be sure.


bobsoutar  (D 5310)

Nov 22, 2002, 3:00 AM
Post #4 of 17 (1494 views)
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Re: [Squeak] 150 container & 170 canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

You will need to check the pack volume of the 170 first. If it's ZP try for one with a few jumps on it (200 -300) or you're going to be sweating buckets when you try to pack it.

You could probably pick up a 170 made of F111 fairly cheaply - most 150 containers will take up to a 175 if it is F111 fabric.


(This post was edited by bobsoutar on Nov 22, 2002, 3:00 AM)


mollusc  (D 66539)

Nov 22, 2002, 6:27 AM
Post #5 of 17 (1466 views)
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Re: [Squeak] 150 container & 170 canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

My javelin j-1 (max 150) fits the silhouette 170 very easily. It is a hybrid, hence packs smaller than a 9-cell ZP. Still, I guess it would fit almost any 170 ZP or even a 190 hybrid or F-111.


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Nov 22, 2002, 7:11 AM
Post #6 of 17 (1446 views)
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Re: [Squeak] 150 container & 170 canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

Depends. If you're a good packer (or don't mind a tough pack job), and/or if you live in a more humid climate then it might be okay.

If you're just learning to pack, why put yourself through the hassles of learning to pack something that doesn't fit right? The difference between overall container size if you get one built to fit a 170 compared to one built to fit a 150 is about a half inch. If you aren't 5'5" and 120 pounds I doubt you'll notice a difference.

Another thing to consider is that most containers are sized for the reserve to be the same size or one size smaller than the main container is sized for. Feel confident that you can (safely, in a worst case situation, on your first jump with your own rig) land a reserve that is one size smaller than the main you feel safe flying?

Humidity is also an issue. If you jump in an area that is drier (desert, for example), your canopies will pack up bigger than they will if you live in an area that is more humid (Flordia, for example). It's easy to put a zp 170 in a Javelin J1 (built for 150) in Florida; it's a bit more work to pack the same gear in Eloy.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Nov 22, 2002, 9:12 AM
Post #7 of 17 (1416 views)
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Re: [Squeak] 150 container & 170 canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

>If i use a longer closing loop can i put a 170 canopy in a 135-150
> container for a few months?

You can fit almost anything into almost anything. The question is - how safe will it be? You can generally go up or down one size without affecting deployment, protection or bag closure.

If you can't close the container even by lengthening the loop, obviously it's too big.

If you can lengthen the loop and close the container, but it's big enough that the d-bag is hanging out or the main pin protector no longer protects the pin, it's too big.

If you can get everything closed, but you have to really whale on the closing loop and pull the pin protector very tight, be aware that you are putting a lot of stress on the main container, and that may end up wearing your rig out prematurely (popped stitching, pulled grommets, damaged stiffeners.)


Michele  (B 26874)

Nov 22, 2002, 11:25 AM
Post #8 of 17 (1388 views)
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Re: [billvon] 150 container & 170 canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

Bill -

Quote:
You can fit almost anything into almost anything. The question is - how safe will it be? You can generally go up or down one size without affecting deployment, protection or bag closure.

Is it a more likely possibility of having a "nothing out" (because it got squinched in there really tight), and then, on dumping the reserve, you shake the main loose and go from nothing out to "two out"?

And in that scenario, in which reserve first then main, would that be more likely to cause an entanglement, or is that not necessarily so? (assuming you don't cutaway before deploying reserve)

Ciels-
Michele


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Nov 22, 2002, 11:32 AM
Post #9 of 17 (1379 views)
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Re: [Michele] 150 container & 170 canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

The mal would be PC in tow on a throw out or stuck pud on a pull out system.

And double outs are weird. The same set up migh be fine dozens of times, but one time it will just entangle for no reason. Best thing to do is avoid getting into this situation to start with.


Michele  (B 26874)

Nov 22, 2002, 11:41 AM
Post #10 of 17 (1376 views)
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Re: [PhreeZone] 150 container & 170 canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the correction, Phree...I am still learning. I had the right pix in my head, just had the wrong name.

Baglock means ?

Ciels-
Michele


CanuckInUSA  (D 26396)

Nov 22, 2002, 11:52 AM
Post #11 of 17 (1368 views)
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Re: [Michele] 150 container & 170 canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Baglock means ?

The canopy is stuck in the dbag. Cutaway and pull your reserve. Angelic


Sonic  (B 102345)

Nov 22, 2002, 11:58 AM
Post #12 of 17 (1363 views)
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Re: [Michele] 150 container & 170 canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Baglock means
The pilot chute has pulled out the bagged canopy up to line stretch, but the canopy stays in the bag. Time for plan B.


Michele  (B 26874)

Nov 22, 2002, 12:38 PM
Post #13 of 17 (1345 views)
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Re: [Sonic] 150 container & 170 canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

Question: A baglock is ?
Quote:
The canopy is stuck in the dbag. Cutaway and pull your reserve.
Quote:
The pilot chute has pulled out the bagged canopy up to line stretch, but the canopy stays in the bag. Time for plan B.

Yup...that cleared it up for me, thanks! CrazyWink

What I am thinking is is container lock, yes?

Ciels-
Michele


(This post was edited by Michele on Nov 22, 2002, 12:39 PM)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Nov 22, 2002, 2:26 PM
Post #14 of 17 (1326 views)
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Re: [Michele] 150 container & 170 canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

>Is it a more likely possibility of having a "nothing out" (because it
> got squinched in there really tight) . . .

I think that's rather unlikely. To cause a total, you'd have to assume a pullout that was so tight you couldn't extract the pin - you'd need a positive leverage device to get a pin that tight, and even then it would be hard to do. On a throwout, same deal except you'd get a PC in tow. It's just very hard to make the pin-extraction force high enough to cause a PC in tow unless you have other problems (like a rusty or damaged pin, or a trapped bridle.)

Once the container is open, again, it's rare that you could squeeze the main in there so tight that it's not going to come out. About the only time you see this is when there are other problems, like a line trapped by a grommet or something.

By far, the most problems I've seen with too-large canopies in rigs is exposed risers/lines/pins. This can result in a prematurely released toggle or even a mal when the toggle comes free and wraps around something.


drenaline  (C License)

Nov 22, 2002, 3:43 PM
Post #15 of 17 (1313 views)
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Re: [Squeak] 150 container & 170 canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
If i use a longer closing loop can i put a 170 canopy in a 135-150 container for a few months?
What kind of lines are you using? dacron lines affect pack volume.


Kris  (D 26033)

Nov 23, 2002, 7:34 AM
Post #16 of 17 (1263 views)
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Re: [Michele] 150 container & 170 canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
What I am thinking is is container lock, yes?

Correct!Smile

Kris


sabregrl  (D 24057)

Nov 27, 2002, 8:15 AM
Post #17 of 17 (1196 views)
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Re: [Squeak] 150 container & 170 canopy [In reply to] Can't Post

I've had my Sabre 170 in my rig that was built for a 150 for almost 3 years. The main problem I've had is with the closing flap flipping up (not good because you could have a premature deployment). I've had this fixed by my rigger soon after it was noticed. I recently demo-ed a 150 and realized that if I ever go smaller than a 150, I'd have to get a new container because the 170 has stretched out the container a lot. But remember, I've been stuffing the 170 in it for almost 3 years. If you plan to downsize earlier than me, your rig will probably not stretch as much and you'd have more use out of it.



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