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Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities

 

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mollyo

May 30, 2007, 3:21 PM
Post #1 of 342 (3651 views)
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Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities Can't Post

In July a group of us will be presenting a petition at the USPA Board of Directors meeting to ask for a rule change to help prevent canopy pattern collisions. If you would like to support us, please reply to this post with your name and license number (or USPA number) and we will add your name to the petition.

The petition is:

We, the undersigned, support a BSR change to reduce landing fatalities by separating high performance and standard pattern landings.


freeflyimpaired  (D 26548)

May 30, 2007, 3:56 PM
Post #2 of 342 (3625 views)
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Re: [mollyo] Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm all for separating landing areas but that doesn't work for all DZ's. I'm not going to support something that as far as I'm concerned could turn into a ban on diving approaches. I feel that individual DZ's need to handle this on a DZ specific basis since no rule can accomadate every situation that DZ's are dealing with.

I do feel strongly that DZO's need to seriously consider what they can do to make the landing area/areas safer for everybody. But right now a rule from USPA saying they need to separate all landing areas is simply going to result in many DZ's having to ban either swooping or straight in approches to accomadate the new BSR.

Joe.


AFFI  (D 25538)

May 30, 2007, 3:59 PM
Post #3 of 342 (3619 views)
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Re: [mollyo] Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities [In reply to] Can't Post

Is the petition going to state the specific proposed verbiage, or just that we want a new BSR and vaguely describe it as "by separating high performance and standard pattern landings".

Will a BSR addition really change anything anyway?
Seems like not all the collisions have been high performance landing issues, some of the incidents have been so bizarrely unlikely occurrences that I feel compelled to place them in the shit happens category.

It is just strange how unlikely incidents that have never happened at all or very rarely in the distant past seem to pop up in clusters very strange
-


pwln  (C 35574)

May 30, 2007, 4:01 PM
Post #4 of 342 (3617 views)
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Re: [mollyo] Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities [In reply to] Can't Post

I still have not seen a "good" fix for what seems to be the problem.

What about classic accuracy? They don't belong with the swoopers. So we need a whole extra area for them?


Velo96  (D License)

May 30, 2007, 5:27 PM
Post #5 of 342 (3548 views)
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Re: [mollyo] Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities [In reply to] Can't Post

A new BSR will not prevent acts of stupidty and arrogance such as swooping in the middle of traffic. DZO's need to make a plan that works for their particular landing area, and make the jumpers stick to their rules. Those who refuse to play well with others should be grounded. It doesn't do any good to yank the membership of an arrogant asshole who has caused a collision and killed himself and an innocent jumper. That is about the only thing a landing area BSR would be good for. Unless the DZO's grow some balls, the stupiduty will continue and we will lose more friends. Separate the traffic with a separate landing area or through time by getting the swoopers to exit on a separate pass so they are not performing a 270 into those flying a standard box pattern. If everyone would learn more about canopy flight and respect the airspace around them it would go a long way towards eliminating these fatalities. That is, except for the occasional jackass who thinks he is above all of this and can swoop wherever he wants.


Para_Frog  (D 29814)

May 30, 2007, 7:01 PM
Post #6 of 342 (3498 views)
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Re: [mollyo] Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, that's what we need...more federal regulation. Good answer. It's like wanting the government to raise your kids instead of disciplining them yourselves.Crazy

Why don't you collectively bitch slap the idiots at your respective dropzones who act like morons and think they own the place. Grow some stones and take back your sport. That's what we do at mine.

We protect our DZOs as well as respectful jumpers from idiots.


kallend  (D 23151)

May 30, 2007, 7:37 PM
Post #7 of 342 (3480 views)
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Re: [Para_Frog] Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Yeah, that's what we need...more federal regulation. Good answer. It's like wanting the government to raise your kids instead of disciplining them yourselves.Crazy

.

Since this proposal has NOTHING to do with federal regulations or the government, your rant seems pretty far off the mark (that is, totally irrelevant).

Molly, I should like to see the exact nature of the method of "separation" before supporting it. Will it be designed by the DZ or USPA? Are there any guidelines?


(This post was edited by kallend on May 30, 2007, 7:39 PM)


waltappel

May 30, 2007, 7:50 PM
Post #8 of 342 (3458 views)
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Re: [mollyo] Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities [In reply to] Can't Post

Please add my name to the petition--Because of Bob.SmileSmile

Walt Appel, D-21458


waltappel

May 30, 2007, 7:55 PM
Post #9 of 342 (3448 views)
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Re: [Para_Frog] Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Yeah, that's what we need...more federal regulation. Good answer. It's like wanting the government to raise your kids instead of disciplining them yourselves.Crazy

Why don't you collectively bitch slap the idiots at your respective dropzones who act like morons and think they own the place. Grow some stones and take back your sport. That's what we do at mine.

We protect our DZOs as well as respectful jumpers from idiots.

Personally, I'd be ok with having a fund so we could put bounties on the idiots, but we are in a sport where peer pressure is the rule--especially among belly flyers, and they still represent a big portion of our sport. Most jumpers are simply not willing to tell the idiots to fuck off because they are scared of getting black-balled off of bigways or whatever.

I agree with what you are saying about the bitch slapping, but most jumpers are simply unwilling to do that.

Walt


waltappel

May 30, 2007, 7:58 PM
Post #10 of 342 (3446 views)
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Re: [Velo96] Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Unless the DZO's everyone in the skydiving community grows some balls, the stupiduty will continue and we will lose more friends.

Don't put it on the DZOs--we *all* need to do something.

Walt


Para_Frog  (D 29814)

May 30, 2007, 8:07 PM
Post #11 of 342 (3430 views)
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Re: [kallend] Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities [In reply to] Can't Post

So USPA is NOT a governing body? Then I guess we can just ignore all previous BSRs as irrelevant? Regulation by definition is governing.

Your rant on my rant is a little off the mark there slick.

And I concur Walt. It's tougher at the bigger DZs. I suppose I take for granted that at the smaller ones it's easier to reign in the nutz.


(This post was edited by Para_Frog on May 30, 2007, 8:14 PM)


AFFI  (D 25538)

May 30, 2007, 8:55 PM
Post #12 of 342 (3410 views)
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Re: [waltappel] Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Please add my name to the petition--Because of Bob.SmileSmile

Walt Appel, D-21458

If Walt is in, I am in - please add my name too...
-


2shay  (D 1)

May 30, 2007, 10:49 PM
Post #13 of 342 (3383 views)
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Re: [mollyo] Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities [In reply to] Can't Post

we all can do something and so I don't care to involve the uspa. I hate the feeling of choices being taken away from me. My opinion and I am sticking to it.


katecooper  (D 7333)

May 30, 2007, 11:51 PM
Post #14 of 342 (3371 views)
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Re: [mollyo] Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities [In reply to] Can't Post

Kate Cooper D-7333 USPA 8944

I support this petition.

Large DZ, Small DZ. It is EVERYONE's responsibility to enforce safety in the landing pattern. This proposal will lay the ground work for allowing this to happen. Things are changing. This is NOT anti-Swooper or Big-way or Accuracy. It is PRO-safety.

In a few years people will (hopefully) wonder why patterns were routinely mixed in a haphazard manner as they safely perform the manuevers they wish to in the correct landing areas.

Hopefully.

blue skies and PEACE

kate


justinhawxhurst  (C 21844)

May 31, 2007, 12:01 AM
Post #15 of 342 (3368 views)
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Re: [katecooper] Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities [In reply to] Can't Post

It has already been said but to make a rule that will not be able to be followed by all dz's becouse of the size and landing areas is wrong. It should be set out for each DZ to patrol their own LZ and do what works for them to make it safe not make a rule from a building in some town somewhere to say you have to do this when they do not know what the dz has for an landing area.


AndyMan  (D 25698)

May 31, 2007, 5:10 AM
Post #16 of 342 (3332 views)
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Re: [mollyo] Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities [In reply to] Can't Post

I do not.

3 years ago, the leading cause of death was from people hooking it in. The industry dealt with that problem through education, not regulation. The result was that last year had the fewest fatalities in recent history, both internationally and in the US.

This year a new problem is surfacing. Education will be more productive than regulation.

_Am


kallend  (D 23151)

May 31, 2007, 5:15 AM
Post #17 of 342 (3322 views)
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Re: [Para_Frog] Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So USPA is NOT a governing body? Then I guess we can just ignore all previous BSRs as irrelevant? Regulation by definition is governing.

Your rant on my rant is a little off the mark there slick.

.

A BSR is NOT a "federal regulation". I guess you didn't bother to read your own post.

For your information, this IS what you wrote:
"Yeah, that's what we need...more federal regulation."


(This post was edited by kallend on May 31, 2007, 5:19 AM)


kallend  (D 23151)

May 31, 2007, 5:24 AM
Post #18 of 342 (3308 views)
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Re: [AndyMan] Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I do not.

3 years ago, the leading cause of death was from people hooking it in. The industry dealt with that problem through education, not regulation. The result was that last year had the fewest fatalities in recent history, both internationally and in the US.

This year a new problem is surfacing. Education will be more productive than regulation.

_Am

Hi Andy,

If people kill themselves through ignorance, that is one thing. Killing OTHERS is another thing altogether. The purpose of the proposed BSR (which I support) is to prevent irresponsible people from killing others.


kallend  (D 23151)

May 31, 2007, 5:27 AM
Post #19 of 342 (3304 views)
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Re: [justinhawxhurst] Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It has already been said but to make a rule that will not be able to be followed by all dz's becouse of the size and landing areas is wrong. It should be set out for each DZ to patrol their own LZ and do what works for them to make it safe not make a rule from a building in some town somewhere to say you have to do this when they do not know what the dz has for an landing area.

How do you feel about it if the BSR just mandates that DZs shall implement a plan for the separation of HP landings from standard pattern landings, and leaves it up to the DZO to come up with a plan that fits his/her DZ's particular circumstances? The separation does not have to be spatial - it can be separation in time if the LZ is particularly small.


Para_Frog  (D 29814)

May 31, 2007, 5:28 AM
Post #20 of 342 (3299 views)
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Re: [kallend] Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities [In reply to] Can't Post

USPA has the administrative support in litigation of the FAA. (As in a recent incident here). That is a federal agency professor.

You're splitting hairs to make this argument a political PA. Spare me.

Everyone else gets my point...whether they agree with it or not.


kallend  (D 23151)

May 31, 2007, 5:29 AM
Post #21 of 342 (3299 views)
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Re: [2shay] Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
we all can do something and so I don't care to involve the uspa. I hate the feeling of choices being taken away from me. My opinion and I am sticking to it.

So if you CHOOSE to swoop through a landing big way, you think you should be allowed to do it?


kallend  (D 23151)

May 31, 2007, 5:32 AM
Post #22 of 342 (3296 views)
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Re: [Para_Frog] Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
USPA has the administrative support in litigation of the FAA. (As in a recent incident here). That is a federal agency professor.

You're splitting hairs to make this argument a political PA. Spare me.

Everyone else gets my point...whether they agree with it or not.

When discussing rules, precision of language is important. As are facts. USPA is not a federal agency and BSRs are not federal regulations.


Premier faulknerwn  (D 17441)
Moderator
May 31, 2007, 5:43 AM
Post #23 of 342 (3287 views)
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Re: [katecooper] Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities [In reply to] Can't Post

I support it too. Wendy Faulkner D-17441 USPA 100252

I've got over 2000 CRW jumps and am very comfortable around other canopies in the air, but I'm frigging scared to death to have to land in the same landing area as people doing big turns on final.. I've come really close to being taken out more than once..


(This post was edited by faulknerwn on May 31, 2007, 5:48 AM)


Nightingale  (B 26984)

May 31, 2007, 5:45 AM
Post #24 of 342 (3287 views)
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Re: [katecooper] Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Kate Cooper D-7333 USPA 8944

I support this petition.

Large DZ, Small DZ. It is EVERYONE's responsibility to enforce safety in the landing pattern. This proposal will lay the ground work for allowing this to happen. Things are changing. This is NOT anti-Swooper or Big-way or Accuracy. It is PRO-safety.

In a few years people will (hopefully) wonder why patterns were routinely mixed in a haphazard manner as they safely perform the manuevers they wish to in the correct landing areas.

Hopefully.

blue skies and PEACE

kate


Ditto.

Kristin Koenig B-26984


JumpRu  (D License)

May 31, 2007, 5:56 AM
Post #25 of 342 (3271 views)
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Re: [mollyo] Petition to support a BSR change to reduce canopy fatalities [In reply to] Can't Post

Im strongly against BSR. This is bad idea. Education and communication will do much more for safety.


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