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USPA election candidate opinions

 

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howardwhite  (C 3896)

Nov 18, 2002, 12:00 PM
Post #76 of 303 (1656 views)
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Re: [livendive] USPA election candidate opinions [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Tony Thacker has not been on the BOD, so how could your assessment of BOD activity affect your judgement of him?

2. You assessed Marylou Laughlin of the Northeast Conference as a 2. What do you know about her? In the light of the "fun jumper" theme here, she's the ultimate --S&A, CRW, para-ski as well as bellyflying with everyone, She's not afffiliated with a DZ and shows up everywhere.

HW


jceman  (D 19212)

Nov 18, 2002, 12:41 PM
Post #77 of 303 (1639 views)
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Re: [livendive] USPA election candidate opinions [In reply to] Can't Post

Dave,

Are you sure you're not confusing Tony Thacker with Gene Paul Thacker who's only comment in the candidate's statement read "One more time."?


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Nov 18, 2002, 1:06 PM
Post #78 of 303 (1622 views)
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Re: [Cloudseeder] USPA election candidate opinions [In reply to] Can't Post

>Yes you can see the unedited edition! I have no doubt that after this
>weekends Executive Comittee meeting my "original" statement will be
>available for all to peruse on Our website.

I spoke to Larry Bagley this morning. He said that USPA did indeed edit the statement for spelling and punctuation, as they do all material published by them per their governance manual. There will not be any changes made to your statement. So if you want people to see your original, unproofed copy you probably should post it.


livendive  (D 21415)

Nov 18, 2002, 2:54 PM
Post #79 of 303 (1585 views)
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Re: [howardwhite] USPA election candidate opinions [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
1. Tony Thacker has not been on the BOD, so how could your assessment of BOD activity affect your judgement of him?

jceman was correct, I saw the last name Thacker and figured it was the same person. My bad. Given that Tony has not been on the BOD, I'll change that grade to a 3, i.e. I don't know enough about him...not that these grades matter all that much.

In reply to:
2. You assessed Marylou Laughlin of the Northeast Conference as a 2. What do you know about her? In the light of the "fun jumper" theme here, she's the ultimate --S&A, CRW, para-ski as well as bellyflying with everyone, She's not afffiliated with a DZ and shows up everywhere.

I gave her a 2 for the same reason I (incorrectly) gave Tony Thacker a 2. She's ignored me every time I've asked her a question and has not appeared to oppose the Good Ol' Boys. Hopefully I've not mistaken her identity as well.

Blues,
Dave


beemertec  (A License)

Nov 18, 2002, 3:42 PM
Post #80 of 303 (1563 views)
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Re: [bodypilot90] USPA election candidate opinions [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree concerning treetop in person. I am a new to the sport jumper, so I do not know many of the names that are being thrown around in this thread. I basically have to read others opinions when it comes to who I vote for. I have however met treetop and hung out with him at the DZ and jumped with him on several occasions, and I found him to be very personable as well as very knowlegable. He treated me very well and did not mind answering any questions I had. I enjoy hanging out with him. I realize he has been a bit brash and sarcastic on the boards, but then again, I see a lot of sarcasm in these forums. I am a bit of a sarcastic person myself so it doesn't bother me. As for treetops ability to deal with people in a diplomatic way I think you may be reading him wrong. I had the opportunity to work ground crew on a July 4th demo he participated in. That day he actually had three ( maybe four) demo jumps. he also happened to be the organizer for these jumps. Keep in mind that I am new to this but I thought getting permission for demo jumps required going through various agencies. The demo I worked was on Main Street in Wood stock, GA to lead off their 4th of July parade. Now I would guess he had to talk to more than 1 or two Government agencies in order to do this. I have had experience in dealing with the government, and I have found that anyone I talk to requires a little schmoozing to get anything accomplished, and being sarcastic and rude usually gets you nowhere except out the door. Bottom line he may be sarcastic but Don Jardine is a good guy, and he really loves skydiving, and I for one believe he will do a good job. I also think if you asked around at my DZ the people that have jumped with him would echo my sentiments. You got my vote Treetop.


howardwhite  (C 3896)

Nov 18, 2002, 4:15 PM
Post #81 of 303 (1543 views)
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Re: [livendive] USPA election candidate opinions [In reply to] Can't Post

"I gave her a 2 for the same reason I (incorrectly) gave Tony Thacker a 2. She's ignored me every time "

She's in the Northeast; you're in the Northwest. How did you "ask her a question?"

HW


happythoughts  (D License)

Nov 18, 2002, 4:29 PM
Post #82 of 303 (1535 views)
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Re: [livendive] USPA election candidate opinions [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I gave her a 2 for the same reason I (incorrectly) gave Tony Thacker a 2. She's ignored me every time I've asked her a question and has not appeared to oppose the Good Ol' Boys. Hopefully I've not mistaken her identity as well.

Blues,
Dave

Allow me to answer why no one want to answer your questions (or Spanish Inquisition). Let me quote someone to you:

Quote:

Don,
I think I know where you're coming from on this, but I think pursuing it this aggressively will keep us from getting anything, i.e. future "hot seat" candidates will refuse to respond as the potential incendiary reaction is not equal to the possible positive reaction. It might be "fun" to be in someone's face, but it's not often an effective means of encouraging
meaningful discussion.

Blues,
Dave

There is the reason, in your own words. Personally, after seeing the tone used in questions to Buzz Fink and M. Murdock, I am amazed that anyone responds.


livendive  (D 21415)

Nov 18, 2002, 4:37 PM
Post #83 of 303 (1526 views)
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Re: [howardwhite] USPA election candidate opinions [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
"I gave her a 2 for the same reason I (incorrectly) gave Tony Thacker a 2. She's ignored me every time "

She's in the Northeast; you're in the Northwest. How did you "ask her a question?"

HW

By e-mail. Technology is a wonderful thing.

Blues,
Dave


livendive  (D 21415)

Nov 18, 2002, 4:42 PM
Post #84 of 303 (1524 views)
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Re: [happythoughts] USPA election candidate opinions [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
There is the reason, in your own words. Personally, after seeing the tone used in questions to Buzz Fink and M. Murdock, I am amazed that anyone responds.

Can you show me, in my words, where I've used such a terrible tone with Buzz Fink? M. Murdock? Marylou Laughlin? More than once with any BOD member or candidate?

Blues,
Dave


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Nov 18, 2002, 4:46 PM
Post #85 of 303 (1521 views)
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Re: [Cloudseeder] Don Jardine suing USPA? [In reply to] Can't Post

I just saw this on rec.skydiving:

> Considering that there has been no *good faith* attempt by USPA to
> abide by Our own rules ,as evidenced by the continued presentation of an
> edited form of my candidates' statement on Our website,I believe that it is
> in the best interest of the Membership if I were to seek an injunction to
> halt the election process until such a time that *my* candidates' statement
> can be properly presented to the Membership.

Can I take this as an indication that you will be taking legal action against USPA because they proofread your candidate's statement? Wow. Well, I guess we live in an age where skydivers sue each other.


happythoughts  (D License)

Nov 18, 2002, 4:55 PM
Post #86 of 303 (1515 views)
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Re: [beemertec] USPA election candidate opinions [In reply to] Can't Post

"I have however met treetop and hung out with him "

And that is ok. He is a jump buddy, you have a few beers.

"I realize he has been a bit brash and sarcastic "

Quote:
Treasurer - Dr. Lee Schlictemeir:
I'm suprised that the frail,frequently urinating, son of a bitch has the audacity to continue to serve ,considering his own hypocrisy.

from here

I can quote these types of posts all day. Most of us who have read and kill-filed Don have seen this ad nauseum. No, we don't think these are the social skills that we are looking for in a BOD member.

As far as his social skills in person:

From Buzz Fink:
Quote:
"Sure, I teased you about it. You were an ass the way you did it. You were not there to try to help the organization. You were there to try to prove you knew more than the BoD. You were their to stir. After the meeting, you told me all they had to do was vote to suspend the rules. Like I said, you
were ther to prove how smart you thought you were. You were an ass!

I did talk with you, at length, in the bar. You seemed the most cordial person around. I guess you need the protection of a computer to lash out at
people.

You are right, you are new and only know him at the dz bar. Probably a nice guy there. The problem is that he goes to BOD meetings, not to help, but to be obnoxious. A lot of people are tired of it. Read the whole thread yourself.

link

(This post was edited by happythoughts on Nov 18, 2002, 5:13 PM)


happythoughts  (D License)

Nov 18, 2002, 5:10 PM
Post #87 of 303 (1505 views)
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Re: [livendive] USPA election candidate opinions [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Can you show me, in my words, where I've used such a terrible tone with Buzz Fink? M. Murdock? Marylou Laughlin? More than once with any BOD member or candidate?


Dave, my response was to you, but the comment about tone was not. I was just pointing out that you recognize that a general antagonistic and rude tone is going to cause people to not reply anymore. That is what I quoted you saying.

There is an old trick that wild dogs use. A female will lure an unsuspecting city-dog out into the woods. Then, the others in the pack attack. Sound familiar? Eventually the city-dogs figure it out.

Even though your questions may be useful, then a followup thread is opened and the answers are picked apart. Questions are posed and no matter what the respondent says, they are insulted. I can't see why anyone would put themselves through that. It is pointless. Therefore, I can understand why some choose not to respond. I am sorry that a few have screwed that up for the rest of us.


happythoughts  (D License)

Nov 18, 2002, 5:15 PM
Post #88 of 303 (1493 views)
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Re: [happythoughts] USPA election candidate opinions [In reply to] Can't Post

One of the above links was not working. I just fixed it.


howardwhite  (C 3896)

Nov 18, 2002, 5:18 PM
Post #89 of 303 (1488 views)
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Re: [livendive] USPA election candidate opinions [In reply to] Can't Post

"By e-mail. Technology is a wonderful thing."

Yup, but lots of us get lots of spam. Why should you feel owed a response from someone for whom you can't even vote?

HW


livendive  (D 21415)

Nov 18, 2002, 5:19 PM
Post #90 of 303 (1487 views)
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Re: [billvon] Don Jardine suing USPA? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I guess we live in an age where skydivers sue each other.

Yep, you need to look no farther than Larry Hill's suit against Mike Mullins. That's not to say Don should sue USPA, but it does show that such a willingness is apparently OK with the voting membership.

Blues,
dave


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Nov 18, 2002, 5:21 PM
Post #91 of 303 (1482 views)
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Re: [livendive] Don Jardine suing USPA? [In reply to] Can't Post

>Yep, you need to look no farther than Larry Hill's suit against Mike Mullins.

Or Kat Folger's lawsuit against Mick and Dave. Managed to put them out of business. I hope we don't put someone like that on the BOD.


Cloudseeder

Nov 18, 2002, 5:34 PM
Post #92 of 303 (1472 views)
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Re: [billvon] USPA election candidate opinions [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
>Yes you can see the unedited edition! I have no doubt that after this
>weekends Executive Comittee meeting my "original" statement will be
>available for all to peruse on Our website.

I spoke to Larry Bagley this morning. He said that USPA did indeed edit the statement for spelling and punctuation, as they do all material published by them per their governance manual. There will not be any changes made to your statement. So if you want people to see your original, unproofed copy you probably should post it.
_________________________________________________

And did you look at Our (not their) Governance Manual and confirm that there is any section which compels them to edit a candidates statement in any way? How about any statement that compels them to correct any statement submitted by any Individual Member (such as in the letters section).
Could you direct me as to where to find this "punctuation police" policy?
Or is the fact that Larry says so enough for you?
Thanks,
"Treetop"


livendive  (D 21415)

Nov 18, 2002, 5:39 PM
Post #93 of 303 (1468 views)
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Re: [howardwhite] USPA election candidate opinions [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
"By e-mail. Technology is a wonderful thing."

Yup, but lots of us get lots of spam. Why should you feel owed a response from someone for whom you can't even vote?

HW

Oh she certainly doesn't owe me a response. Likewise I don't owe her my support. When I ask someone a question and they ignore me, it usually decreases my opinion of them. Your mileage may vary.

Blues,
Dave


Cloudseeder

Nov 18, 2002, 5:41 PM
Post #94 of 303 (1465 views)
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Re: [billvon] Don Jardine suing USPA? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I just saw this on rec.skydiving:

> Considering that there has been no *good faith* attempt by USPA to
> abide by Our own rules ,as evidenced by the continued presentation of an
> edited form of my candidates' statement on Our website,I believe that it is
> in the best interest of the Membership if I were to seek an injunction to
> halt the election process until such a time that *my* candidates' statement
> can be properly presented to the Membership.

Can I take this as an indication that you will be taking legal action against USPA because they proofread your candidate's statement? Wow. Well, I guess we live in an age where skydivers sue each other.
__________________________________________________

You can take it as an indication that USPA hasn't been acting in good faith or by Our own Rules of Governance.
This election or during the last election.
How many elections are you willing to stand aside as they fragrantly violate OUR Rules?
At what point will you stand up? When they come after you?

"Treetop"


Michele  (B 26874)

Nov 18, 2002, 5:42 PM
Post #95 of 303 (1464 views)
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Re: [Cloudseeder] USPA election candidate opinions [In reply to] Can't Post

Fourth time, I think, Donn....

Why don't you put the statement up as you wrote it?

Ciels-
Michele


Jessica  (B 25202)

Nov 18, 2002, 5:48 PM
Post #96 of 303 (1460 views)
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Re: [Cloudseeder] USPA election candidate opinions [In reply to] Can't Post

I really don't understand this....

You would have preferred to have appeared to the entire Parachutist-reading populace as someone without a basic grasp of English grammar?

I wouldn't vote for someone who didn't at least appear to understand spelling and punctuation. I'm going to assume that USPA did you a favor, unless you post the original and can prove that the meaning of your statement was altered.


livendive  (D 21415)

Nov 18, 2002, 5:51 PM
Post #97 of 303 (1456 views)
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Re: [happythoughts] USPA election candidate opinions [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
There is an old trick that wild dogs use. A female will lure an unsuspecting city-dog out into the woods. Then, the others in the pack attack. Sound familiar?

Did you just call me a bitch? :-)

In reply to:
Even though your questions may be useful, then a followup thread is opened and the answers are picked apart. Questions are posed and no matter what the respondent says, they are insulted. I can't see why anyone would put themselves through that. It is pointless. Therefore, I can understand why some choose not to respond. I am sorry that a few have screwed that up for the rest of us.

There are several BOD members who secretly lurk rec.skydiving who may be offended by some of the discussions there, but there are considerably more who do not. Those ones see only the emails from me.

Blues,
Dave


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Nov 18, 2002, 5:55 PM
Post #98 of 303 (1450 views)
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Re: [Cloudseeder] USPA election candidate opinions [In reply to] Can't Post

>And did you look at Our (not their) Governance Manual and confirm that there
>is any section which compels them to edit a candidates statement in any way?

Nope, in fact I am sure there is not, just as there is nothing there that compels them to put photography in each issue of skydiving.

>Or is the fact that Larry says so enough for you?

Why yes, it is, unless you come up with better evidence (i.e. post the part of the governance manual that says that they cannot fix misspelled words.) If you just continue to threaten and bluster, producing nothing to back it up, I will go with the more reasonable guy at USPA.

I asked you before if you are threatening a lawsuit against USPA, and you responded:

>You can take it as an indication that USPA hasn't been acting in good faith or
> by Our own Rules of Governance.

So:

-you refuse to answer direct questions
-you claim things that you don't back up (i.e. they changed your statement but you don't want to show anyone the original)
-you are suing an organization that you are campaigning to be a part of
-you are running for a position you do not want
-you claim to despise some of the people you may be working with (other BOD candidates)

Anything else you want to add to your campaign?


happythoughts  (D License)

Nov 18, 2002, 6:13 PM
Post #99 of 303 (1436 views)
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Re: [Jessica] USPA election candidate opinions [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I really don't understand this....

...unless you post the original and can prove that the meaning of your statement was altered.

I agree. If meaning of it was altered, I am sure that we would all share in the outrage. This would be the type of "Evil Empire" scenario that needs to be exposed. An example of "Them".

Posting the original would certainly resolve the issue once and for all.


Cloudseeder

Nov 18, 2002, 6:38 PM
Post #100 of 303 (1443 views)
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Re: [Jessica] USPA election candidate opinions [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I really don't understand this....

You would have preferred to have appeared to the entire Parachutist-reading populace as someone without a basic grasp of English grammar?

I wouldn't vote for someone who didn't at least appear to understand spelling and punctuation. I'm going to assume that USPA did you a favor, unless you post the original and can prove that the meaning of your statement was altered.
__________________________________________________

I do know something about English grammar , spelling ,and punctuation.
I also know something of written political statements and how to write them for maximum effect. Again, I understand how best to use punctuation and capitalization for emphasis.

I also know that my statement should have been presented to the Membership "exactly as submited".

If you would like to see a copy of my original statement ask HQ.
Get Involved!
Ask Questions of Your Association!
Get Answers and then consider whether or not those answers jive with what you know as fact!

The fact is that no,
USPA has no right to edit my statement in any way, regardless of what Larry Bagley may have told Bil Von.
Another fact is that I notified HQ that my statement wasn't properly displayed to the Membership.
The Executive Committee was notified by HQ prior to their meeting of this past weekend.
My statement still has not been corrected on Our website.
I believe this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Executive Committee is not concerned with following Our Rules of Governance.

"Treetop"


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