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Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury)

 

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davepend  (D 16439)

May 21, 2007, 9:26 AM
Post #1 of 149 (6130 views)
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Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury) Can't Post

In reply to:

OFF TOPIC (sorry):

Packing Jarrett,
It's great that you like to backfly, just please stop doing it DIRECTLY BENEATH the tandems. That airspace belongs to them.

-dp


(This post was edited by PhreeZone on May 21, 2007, 6:45 PM)


stratostar  (Student)

May 21, 2007, 5:43 PM
Post #2 of 149 (5951 views)
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Re: [davepend] Injury - Rocky Point Mexico - May 5?, 2007 [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
just please stop doing it DIRECTLY BENEATH the tandems

Wow ! Holy bat crapShockedShockedShocked, I guess no one ever gave the lad the cardinal rules of shooting tandem videos, or maybe he thinks the rule don't apply to him.Mad

Rule #1 Never above or below TDMS, period!

Jarrett, you really need to read up on the death of Sean Crossman a tandem master who was KILLED by video flyer. It only takes a second to change other peoples life.


catfishhunter  (D 28796)

May 21, 2007, 7:05 PM
Post #3 of 149 (5910 views)
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Re: [davepend] Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury) [In reply to] Can't Post

Someone obviously thinks it is a good Idea. SHouldn't the TM/s in those Videos be the ones ripping the Kid an new (_*_)


yeyo  (D 32048)

May 21, 2007, 7:11 PM
Post #4 of 149 (5907 views)
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Re: [davepend] Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury) [In reply to] Can't Post

There was a thread about this not long ago. Im bad seaching, but if Im not mistaken, the TM is his dad.


stratostar  (Student)

May 21, 2007, 7:19 PM
Post #5 of 149 (5902 views)
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Re: [yeyo] Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury) [In reply to] Can't Post

That is no goddamm excuse to risk the life of the unknowing and non understanding of the real danger TDM PAX. TDM masters who condone these types of stunts should have their rating taken away for good and maybe even the USPA GM of the DZ, IMHO.


packing_jarrett  (D License)

May 21, 2007, 7:37 PM
Post #6 of 149 (5885 views)
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Re: [davepend] Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury) [In reply to] Can't Post

all right I'll bite. Tell me how this is dangerous.

I'll agree this is not a perfect video but many respected video flyers will fly very similar to the way I shoot tandems.


mnealtx  (B 30496)

May 21, 2007, 7:51 PM
Post #7 of 149 (5874 views)
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Re: [packing_jarrett] Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
all right I'll bite. Tell me how this is dangerous.

I'll agree this is not a perfect video but many respected video flyers will fly very similar to the way I shoot tandems.

*note: Youtube is blocked from military networks, so I haven't seen the vid*

As to what's dangerous? A quick search brought up how Sean Crossman was killed.

1. Premature deployment of your main/reserve.

2. Premature deployment of tandem main/reserve.

Either scenario (depending on where you're shooting from) could possibly kill all 3 of you.


(This post was edited by mnealtx on May 21, 2007, 7:58 PM)


packing_jarrett  (D License)

May 21, 2007, 8:06 PM
Post #8 of 149 (5862 views)
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Re: [mnealtx] Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury) [In reply to] Can't Post

yep that sucks for them.Frown

Moral of the story is don't have a premature opening.

WOW that was a quick thread...

Moderators you can take care of the rest of this thread now


stratostar  (Student)

May 21, 2007, 8:07 PM
Post #9 of 149 (5858 views)
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Re: [packing_jarrett] Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury) [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Tell me how this is dangerous.

It's called a premature opening of any of your canopies while under them and you coming to a sudden stop in to them, what is so hard to understand about that?

What you think it can't happen or that the chances or so slim it's worth risking the life of the PAX. Ya know the dude who took out S.C. was told a number of times to keep from getting above the TDM, yet the shadow of the camera man on the drouge shot was really cool too and yet, the same as you he too thought "what danger" till he killed someone because he was on top of them when deployment came.

Quote:
but many respected video flyers will fly very similar to the way I shoot tandems

WHO? Do you mean by "many respected" guys like Mike Mcgowan, Tom Sanders, Craig O'Brian, Norm Kent, Greg Gasson, Don Simonds, TC Weatherford, Wendy Smith and the like or do you mean your local Joe cool guys when you say "many respected"???

Risking your own ass is one thing, risking a PAX for no good reason other then "killer" video shots is another all together.


(This post was edited by stratostar on May 21, 2007, 9:12 PM)


stratostar  (Student)

May 21, 2007, 8:10 PM
Post #10 of 149 (5851 views)
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Re: [packing_jarrett] Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury) [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Moral of the story is don't have a premature opening.

No more like punk ass kids shouldn't be flying video if they have no respect and can't act like an adult in an adult job.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

May 21, 2007, 8:21 PM
Post #11 of 149 (5837 views)
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Re: [packing_jarrett] Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
all right I'll bite. Tell me how this is dangerous.

I'll agree this is not a perfect video but many respected video flyers will fly very similar to the way I shoot tandems.

Very few videographers are more respected than Norman Kent. He doesn't fly under tandems. Or directly under others.
Attachments: norman.jpg (26.6 KB)
  norman_tweenie.jpg (43.9 KB)


packing_jarrett  (D License)

May 21, 2007, 8:22 PM
Post #12 of 149 (5838 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
No more like punk ass kids shouldn't be flying video if they have no respect and can't act like an adult in an adult job.

or that.

Old man, you can delay yourself from getting arthritus from replying to this thread. I'm not going change just because some cyber (PA removed) flaming me up about the way I do things.


(This post was edited by packing_jarrett on May 21, 2007, 8:41 PM)


stratostar  (Student)

May 21, 2007, 8:38 PM
Post #13 of 149 (5820 views)
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Re: [packing_jarrett] Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury) [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I'm not going change

We all already know that.

Quote:
I'm not going change just because some cyber (PA removed) flaming me up about the way I do things.

I'm not flaming you at all, but calling it the way I see it, your showing your IQ in your postings and proving to the whole world with your statements and posting of the video that your a danger to TDMs with your careless attitude towards others safety.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


packing_jarrett  (D License)

May 21, 2007, 8:46 PM
Post #14 of 149 (5811 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
your a danger to TDMs with your careless attitude towards others safety.

Attitudes have no danger. Activities do.
________________________________________

Going low on a formation is bad then.

Verticle transitions in formation skydiving are bad then

Verticle transitions in freeflying are bad then

Backflying all together is bad then.
___________________________________________

Skydiving is a dangerous sport, yes I know, In my 16 years... well probably like 11. I've seen some bad things happen too.

Its our job to make it as safe as can be.


mnealtx  (B 30496)

May 21, 2007, 8:55 PM
Post #15 of 149 (5797 views)
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Re: [packing_jarrett] Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Its our job to make it as safe as can be.

And being under/over the tandem is going to 'make it as safe as can be', how, exactly?


stratostar  (Student)

May 21, 2007, 8:59 PM
Post #16 of 149 (5796 views)
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Re: [mnealtx] Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury) [In reply to] Can't Post

Ya know pissing into the wind only gets your feet wet.


mnealtx  (B 30496)

May 21, 2007, 9:03 PM
Post #17 of 149 (5791 views)
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Re: [stratostar] Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury) [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah...but ya gotta try...y'know?

I just pray he doesn't have to learn that lesson the hard way...


pilotdave  (D License)

May 21, 2007, 9:42 PM
Post #18 of 149 (5764 views)
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Re: [packing_jarrett] Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury) [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Going low on a formation is bad then.

Verticle transitions in formation skydiving are bad then

Verticle transitions in freeflying are bad then

Backflying all together is bad then.

Can you not see that tandems are different from all of those? Do what you want, but leave the innocent bystanders out of it. Just because they signed the waiver doesn't mean you don't have to TRY to keep them safe.

Dave


(This post was edited by pilotdave on May 21, 2007, 9:43 PM)


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
May 21, 2007, 10:06 PM
Post #19 of 149 (5748 views)
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Re: [packing_jarrett] Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury) [In reply to] Can't Post

>Moderators you can take care of the rest of this thread now

This forum exists so skydivers can discuss safety issues and learn how to skydive safely. Sounds like you've learned something here about the "no go" areas on a tandem. It is an important lesson to learn; mistakes with tandems can kill not only experienced jumpers who have accepted the risks of screwing around, but passengers/students who have not.

Everyone makes the occasional error - but an error does not become a mistake until you refuse to correct it. I hope you can see your way clear to correcting this one.


dragon2  (D 101989)

May 21, 2007, 11:29 PM
Post #20 of 149 (5727 views)
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Re: [packing_jarrett] Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury) [In reply to] Can't Post

Besides is being very dangerous, it's also not a very good video because why are your knees in frame all the time? Most of our cameramen do backfly here, but I never see any bit of their anatomy in frame when not intentional (ie offering a shoe to grab). Also your goggles showing in frame would not be allowed here for paid tandem videos.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

May 22, 2007, 12:54 AM
Post #21 of 149 (5708 views)
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Re: Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury) [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
...it's also not a very good video....

I thought it was terrible video.
1. knees in frame
2. very shaky
3. all over the place (far/near)
4. into the sun
5. TM/Video arms blocking view of student when docking
6. "all about" TM and Videoguy, not about the student
7. freakin' too much fish-eye effect

Had I been the student, I would have refused to pay for that video AND had a kind word or two of thanks for screwing up the video of my first skydive.

Dude. Tandem video is for the student. It's not a record of what you and the TM do in the sky. The student is the star of the show. The "money shot" is the smile on the students face. Try to get one.


dragon2  (D 101989)

May 22, 2007, 12:55 AM
Post #22 of 149 (5704 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury) [In reply to] Can't Post

Well yeah, but I was trying to be nice Angelic


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

May 22, 2007, 1:30 AM
Post #23 of 149 (5694 views)
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Re: [dragon2] Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury) [In reply to] Can't Post

You 2 seem to find a nice, strong grip on him. Pirate


Ms.sofaking

May 22, 2007, 5:05 AM
Post #24 of 149 (5627 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury) [In reply to] Can't Post

Come on the issue isn't the quality of the video. My guess is he'll be a hell of a camera man someday. The issue is safety. And the bigger issue is the safety of a passenger, that while they signed a waiver. probably don't have a clue nor a choice of the risk he's adding.
I think the risk he's adding comes directly from his signature line. What does he know? He's only 16? If I still possessed the knowledge I had when I was 16 I would know more than you too. He is quite an accomplished skydiver for a 16 year old. But, obviously is a child who is allowed to make decisions regarding tandem passengers lives. The greater concern might be the TM allowing him to do so. I'm glad people's lives weren't put in my hands at 16. And I hope he learns that he still has much to learn, before it kills someone or himself. This is not about skills as a cameraman or skydiver. It's about responsibillty. I have an advantage over him, learning to skydive at 34, while he may be a better skydiver than me, I came in with the knowledge that I don't know it all. I can learn from people such as yourself with more experience and people more experienced at life in general.


Andy9o8  (D License)

May 22, 2007, 7:17 AM
Post #25 of 149 (5558 views)
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Re: [packing_jarrett] Backflying with tandems (Was Rocky Point injury) [In reply to] Can't Post

Read Chrismgtis's remarks in this thread. What a great attitude he has. The contrast between his attitude and yours is pretty stark.

http://www.dropzone.com/...post=2810394#2810394


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