Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Canopy Relative Work:
Using risers etc. to control canopies flight...

 


JohnPolk  (C 32121)

Nov 14, 2002, 6:30 PM
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Using risers etc. to control canopies flight... Can't Post

I've only got one crw jump, but my buddy and we like to fly close under canopy and play around. We're the same weight and we've got identical canopies, but we can only get so close to each other. If you're behind someone how do you get the extra drive to catch them? we cant do it without sinking out?? Just thought u could throw some pointers

blue skies


AggieDave  (D License)

Nov 14, 2002, 11:12 PM
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Re: [JohnPolk] Using risers etc. to control canopies flight... [In reply to] Can't Post

If the person in front holds in 1/4 to 1/2 brakes, then you should be able to catch them. Also, you may have to use your rear risers just a bit to climb to them, since they'll be altering the attack of their canopy. It would be easier if you do turns of equal radius and catch him out of the turn, flying to him at an angle, turning to get the dock (not too steep of an angle and not too hard/fast or you may wrap).

The first two to form a stack is what I've found the hardest, since once you start getting people in a stack, the formation slows down (like doing a formation in freefall) and they're easier to catch.


CReW dogz, if I'm wrong, please correct this CRW pup (me).Smile


bobsoutar  (D 5310)

Nov 15, 2002, 2:12 AM
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Re: [JohnPolk] Using risers etc. to control canopies flight... [In reply to] Can't Post

Aggiedave is mainly right although 1/2 brakes is way too much (no more than 1/4). It is always easier for the top guy to come down and back so set up that way to start with.

The big crime is to get too far behind the other guy so get yourself level and off to one side - you can gently crab across by using front riser and opposite toggle to get closer - remember the canopy momentum will take it on a bit after you stop the input.

If you do get down and behind, call to your buddy to come around and down to you.

Plan B is to ask him to give you some brake 1/8 - 1/4 and come towards him from a 45 degree angle using rear riser input for lift (bend your knees up if you are facing into wind and need some extra drive).


crwmike  (D 6139)

Nov 15, 2002, 5:48 AM
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Re: [JohnPolk] Using risers etc. to control canopies flight... [In reply to] Can't Post

In freefall, if you go below the other person, what's the best way to float up? :) It's easier for him to come down to you.

In CRW, it's easier (and quicker) for the front person to come back to you.

Base/pins are hard. I've seen many a pair of experienced CRWDogs chase eachother around the sky for several thousand feet trying to get a two stack (not me, of course ;)

The method I use for base pin with an inexperienced person is to fly side by side (anywhere from bumping end cells to a canopy width). On command, whoever is slightly higher start about a 20 degree turn to the outside. The other Dog turns to the inside (let your nose slide right across his back. When his torso gets roughly toward the center three cells, he grabs ...well, whatever he can reach, put your feet in the lines and have fun.

Repeat as desired

CRWSkies,

Michael

In reply to:
I've only got one crw jump, but my buddy and we like to fly close under canopy and play around. We're the same weight and we've got identical canopies, but we can only get so close to each other. If you're behind someone how do you get the extra drive to catch them? we cant do it without sinking out?? Just thought u could throw some pointers

blue skies


JohnPolk  (C 32121)

Nov 15, 2002, 12:31 PM
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Re: [bobsoutar] Using risers etc. to control canopies flight... [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Quote:
It is always easier for the top guy to come down and back so set up that way to start with.


Do you mean to turn and come in behind him? this is what we've been doing, but then the problem is to try and get enough forward speed to catch him w/o sinking out


Premier faulknerwn  (D 17441)
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Nov 15, 2002, 1:56 PM
Post #6 of 16 (1185 views)
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Re: [JohnPolk] Using risers etc. to control canopies flight... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:

Do you mean to turn and come in behind him? this is what we've been doing, but then the problem is to try and get enough forward speed to catch him w/o sinking out

When I go up with a newbie I always have them dock on me first. I mainly fly in quarter brakes or so, but as they're on rear risers (just a little - too much stalls you out) coming up to me, I'm constantly adjusting my brake levels to not flow and popping them to just kill lift. Basically as they're flying forward at me, I'm looking over my shoulder at them and "backing up" (not literally of course) at them.

If that doesn't work, often it helps to fly with one front riser and one toggle. Warping your canopy like that dogs it out pretty well. (this is a LOT of riser and a lot of toggle).


bobsoutar  (D 5310)

Nov 18, 2002, 3:32 AM
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Re: [JohnPolk] Using risers etc. to control canopies flight... [In reply to] Can't Post

No, turn and come to the side of him (about 1 canopy width), you can then both ease up an outside toggle to get closer.

It is difficult to close if you get behind as you are catching the backwash from the guy in front - if you do fall a bit behind it is best to approach from 45 degrees down and 45 degrees to the side.

You would probably both benefit from doing a bit of CRW with some more docile canopies to get the hang of this.


parachutist  (D 25468)

Nov 18, 2002, 7:41 PM
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Re: [faulknerwn] Using risers etc. to control canopies flight... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If that doesn't work, often it helps to fly with one front riser and one toggle. Warping your canopy like that dogs it out pretty well. (this is a LOT of riser and a lot of toggle).

I never did well with base-pin til some Toadsucker suggested warping the canopy. After I learned the basics of warping it seemed so simple. The warped canopy is a slow sinky target.... being slow & sinky makes it easy for just about anyone to nail this target.

Chris


DJL  (C License)

Nov 18, 2002, 10:33 PM
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Re: [parachutist] Using risers etc. to control canopies flight... [In reply to] Can't Post

But what is so bad about just going heavy on your brakes or rear risers to stall the canopy a bit (receiving the dock)? Is it just that the canopy gets more squirrely w/ stronger input? For two-way crw or base-pin it's not like that's going to end up in a big nylon mess. So, willing to hear voice of experience.

-Doug


bobsoutar  (D 5310)

Nov 19, 2002, 2:45 AM
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Re: [DJL] Using risers etc. to control canopies flight... [In reply to] Can't Post

Going heavy on your brakes or rear risers to stall the canopy a bit will just take you up and over the top of the guy trying to dock.

When receiving the dock you should be a sitting duck for the guy docking on you. You may need your hands for grabbing canopy so brakes/risers isn't usually an option anyway.


Premier faulknerwn  (D 17441)
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Nov 19, 2002, 2:46 PM
Post #11 of 16 (1090 views)
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Re: [DJL] Using risers etc. to control canopies flight... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
But what is so bad about just going heavy on your brakes or rear risers to stall the canopy a bit (receiving the dock)? Is it just that the canopy gets more squirrely w/ stronger input? For two-way crw or base-pin it's not like that's going to end up in a big nylon mess. So, willing to hear voice of experience.
-Doug

Its not bad, if it works as long as it doesn't get too squirrely. I usually sit in front varying the amounts of brakes I use to "back up" so to speak to the canopy behind me. I like warping a lot too - it works great.

Big key is fly your trim until they're all the way there - don't let go when they're 3 feet out. That's why I practically always catch with my feet.
W


parachutist  (D 25468)

Nov 19, 2002, 5:29 PM
Post #12 of 16 (1082 views)
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Re: [DJL] Using risers etc. to control canopies flight... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
But what is so bad about just going heavy on your brakes or rear risers to stall the canopy a bit -Doug

Doug,

What Bob and Wendy said above =]

I feel as Bob does.. brakes make you floaty so if the base is floaty then it seems more difficult for the pin to catch the base. Unless you do as Wendy does, & take the brakes far enough to stall the canopy & sink it smoothly. I haven't learned to that with much control yet. It always feels squirrely to me when I stall my Lightning

I guess I should put some practice into smooth stalls & learn that method too. For some reason warping has always seemed easy for me (after I figured out how to keep the warped canopy going straight... heh).

Chris


CReWpilot

Nov 20, 2002, 5:35 PM
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Re: [parachutist] Using risers etc. to control canopies flight... [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry If i Sound like an conservative @#$hole, but if niether of you have done any crew (excluding your one jump) then before you guys go out and try to figure it out, make some jumps with someone who does know what they are doing. I know a two stack may not sound like much, but I have seen some two stacks get pretty nasty. If neither one of you are real experienced, then you can get yourselves into real trouble


DJL  (C License)

Nov 20, 2002, 6:55 PM
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Re: [CReWpilot] Using risers etc. to control canopies flight... [In reply to] Can't Post

Dear Conservative @#$hole, Just kidding.

I'm guessing that you were referring to me as the one with one crw jump, not Chris... Don't worry, I'm in good hands. Haven't gone to crw camp yet but most of my measly 20 crw jumps have been with a really experience crw dog. I asked about sinking out the canopy with deep brakes vs warping because on my non-crw canopy I usually outfly whomever is trying to pin me if I just warp. I've found that I can sink it a bit more with deep brakes to take the pin and once I kick a foot into a line I'll drop the brakes and grab nylon. Thanks, everyone, for the input.

Regards,
Doug, student.


freakous  (D 23636)

Nov 21, 2002, 12:29 PM
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Re: [DJL] Using risers etc. to control canopies flight... [In reply to] Can't Post

Dear Doug student,

It might be possible that "Conservative" was speaking to the original poster. You are in good hands with your mentor. "Conservative" likely doesn't want to hear about another Texas incident. If you recall, two jumpers with low time canopy experience went out with the intention of not docking. Unfortunately, they wrapped and couldn't get out.


(This post was edited by freakous on Nov 21, 2002, 12:38 PM)


DJL  (C License)

Nov 21, 2002, 2:47 PM
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Re: [freakous] Using risers etc. to control canopies flight... [In reply to] Can't Post

Ah yes, as in how john polk said, "I only have one crw jump..." Ok, 2 and 2 together now.

See you Saturday(?), Ass.

-Doug

Edit: to eliminate one liner. Yeah, I recall the recent Dallas wrap. Conservative is right on about that, CRW is a lot of fun but everyone should start with someone with real crw experience and a lot of time in the sport. In fact I think everyone jumping should learn the first steps just to be safer canopy fliers.


(This post was edited by DJL on Nov 21, 2002, 2:58 PM)



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