No licence is required but you should study under the supervision of a certified rigger before you start packing. Untill you become a rigger, you will need to be supervised by a rigger for your packing. I have a 15 year old pack for me some weekends. And she has been doing it for years. Most people will not let you pack for them untill you have established a record for nice openings and no damage to the canopy. Try to pack for the DZ by doing student and staff rigs while being supervised. Then after a while ask the rigger if you can expand to exp jumpers rigs. Listen to the rigger! Most important... be prepared to miss a lot of loads while packing.
Most important... be prepared to miss a lot of loads while packing.
This is absolutely true. It sucks to be stuck on the ground while all your friends are jumping. I've gotten used to it now though. I usually jump on the first and last loads of the day. On the first there's nothing that needs packing, so I come down, toss my rig aside and pack it when I get a break. For the last load, well, if it's not packed up by the time the last load goes up, an extra 20 minutes isn't going to matter. That really isn't too bad of a setup though, since the first and last loads of the day are often the most fun ones since most of the Tandem/AFF JM's are free to fun jump rather than working.
Jul 18, 2001, 2:36 AM
Post #4 of 13
Udder, while I do not share the same opinion of Spectre230, that doesn't mean that he doesn't raise some good points.
Yes, it is wise to first listen and learn from a certified rigger. Understand some of the finer points of canopy maintaince/care/packing. Once you have that under your belt (mind you...you DO NOT NEED to become a certified rigger to continue from here - the USPA states that all rigs should be packed by the person jumping it or a certified rigger. If you do not have your licence, it will raise questions in jumpers minds as to whether or not you will be able to distinguish between a snivel and spank opening, but with enough practice under a rigger, you will learn the different techniques in doing both) then you can start packing sport rigs.
But, the best way to learn is to jump in and ask ALL the questions you can...watch EVERYBODY pack their rigs...and watch ANYONE packing who packs different from what you have seen. If I see ANYONE packing a different way...I ask them to show me what they do. I have now sussed out one of the quickest pro packs I think I will ever need. I am on the ground in about a minute - which helps A LOT at boogies and such.
Other than that...if EVER in doubt...ASK. The first thing I was told when I was cleared to pack my own rigs before jumping was...having a licence to pack parachutes is really a licence to ASK if ever in doubt.
I accept if others will have differing opinions, or more to add, but here are my .02 for your consideration.
Kahurangi e Mahearangi, Pyke NZPF A - 2584 USPA C- ?????
Jul 19, 2001, 2:48 PM
Post #6 of 13
I have to agree with Chris on this one.. I don't let 'just anybody' pack my rig.. I pack my own 99% of the time.. On occasion, I will use a packer - but it's rare.. When I use a packer, it will either be a rigger or somebody that I know and has lots of jumping experience.. I always prefer to use a rigger, though.. I have never had a self induced mal - both were caused by packers(large tension knots in lines, step through)..
I also would have to agree with spectra on this. I'm very new to the sport with only 32 jumps and 16 under my own pack jobs. to me its like someone wanting to be a cop. You dont become a police officer because of the pay, you do it because you want to learn about law, or help people or get assholes off the streets. SOmeone to me that goes and gets there rigger cert abviously wants to learn about packing and all the aspects of canopies. I'm sorry but I'll trust them before I'd trust some person whether there 16 or 56 yrs old to pack my chute just so they can get a few $$ taken off there coarse! And I definatly agree that I would never let anyone pack for me that hasnt jumped. I know my pack jobs arnt the best but I've never had a mal (yet) and I've never spanked myself, so I must be doing something right! call me arrognat or an ass but like everyone says "its my life, its my skydive, I'm going to do whatever is comfortable for me!"
I don't have time to check those...I have seen them pack with reserves out of date
as a packer with only a few thousand pack jobs I take offense. it is not my job to inspect gear. people pay me to pack the main, so that is what I do. if I want my main inspected I pay an extra fee to my rigger. it is not my duty to make sure a reserve is in date. leave that up to the DZ police and the jumper. the only reserves I care about being in date are mine, and yes, I have jumped with them knowingly out of date.
Agreed about the reserve thing. I think making sure the reserve is in date is an individual responsibility. When I pack, I generally inspect and do minor user level maintenance as required on the main: replace or tighten a closing loop, replace broken or worn out rubber bands/tube stows, push slider bumpers back up and those sorts of things. If I find a frayed line, a hole in a canopy, or something of that nature, I'll have a rigger take a look at it. As for my accountability, most of the rigs I pack belong to the DZO and he has explained that if I pack a malfunction and it is clearly my fault, I will be paying for the reserve repack (as if the thought of somebody possibly dying wasn't incentive enough to do a good job). I've only had one of my pack jobs cutaway and I can tell you I was very upset until we inspected the canopy and realized it was user error. Yes, I will get my rigger's ticket one of these days and I believe when I do all the experiences I've had as a packer will make me a better one.
How does an arrogant Master Rigger side with the packers on one issue, but disagree with them on another? On one hand, I don't believe that packers are being paid to inspect anything more than a quick glance at links, lines and rubber bands. If a jumper wants a more thorough inspection, he/she should pay a licensed rigger for the 1/2 hour labor that a proper inspection requires. If a packer does any more maintenance than replacing broken rubber bands or frayed closing loops, they should charge extra. If they miss a step-through they are shirking their job.
Professional packers should not be held responsible for reserves being out of date or overdue service bulletins. The more conscientious packers will point out the omission and steer customers towards riggers who can fix the problem, but packers should not be held responsible for overdue maintenance. Hold the lazy yuppies responsible for keeping thier own reserves in date! Thanks for reading my rant!
Packers are responsible for packing mains. Period!
In the long run it comes down to attitude. If a person is curious and wants to become a good packer, they will get a license to learn. That license is called a Senior Rigger license.
Bad precident grasshopper, Weekend jumpers will emulate the example you set, even if you set a bad example. Jumping with a reserve that is out of date is illegal, but I could give a flying !@#$%^&*! about the lawyers. Having your reserve in date means that a professional has inspected it recently for wear and tear. Who cares how long the reserve canopy has been sitting there, the question is how much abuse the container has suffered.
Well, I would have to agree with Grasshopper on this too...and in my own defense, spectre, I never once mention that a 'packer' should consider packing reserves or doing any repairs on any rig, what-so-ever...that is up to a certified rigger.
BUT, as a packer (new to packing, experienced jumper) if someone asks me to pack their main, that is all I do. I pack it like I would pack my own. I take the same care, do the same checks, and depending on what kind of opening they like (i.e. I solicit this info from them before or during the pack) give them what they want. I do NOT engage in undercutting, competition, or other dubious practices to "get" the pack job. If you (in the general sense) want it...take it. If it is your side job for cash, then by all means, pack to your little hearts content. I do it to pay for my jumps (barter) and nothing more. I trust other jumpers to pack my main, and I would hope they would trust another jumper(me) to pack theirs right. On the other hand, if they were strictly a packer and didn't jump at all, well, if they had proven their worth as a packer, then if I wanted it done, I wouldn't mind asking them.
If I ever caused a mal for another jumper, I wouldn't have too much of a problem paying for their repack. But again, you wanted me to pack to save you the time...if you have a mal, you accepted that risk when you asked me to pack it.
So, not that I take offense to your post, spectre, but to each their own. I have several people at my dz who are "rich" enough to pay a packer ALL the time. Well, if you are going to throw your 5$ bucks around like that...I don't mind if it falls in my pocket. Otherwise, I strongly believe in packing for yourself. But again, I am NOT a rigger and I don't try to be. If I see something that looks sus on a rig, I will stop the pack and consult the rigger...leaving it in his hands to deal with.
Kahurangi e Mahearangi, Pyke NZPF A - 2584 USPA C- ?????