Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Packer malfunction rate

 


AggieDave  (D License)

Nov 13, 2002, 7:43 PM
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Packer malfunction rate Can't Post

This came up in the other packing thread and I was curious what the malfunction rate is for packers at other DZs.

Is there one packer who has a ton of mals attributed to him/her or one that packs line overs everyonce in a while? How about on the tandems?

The only packer caused cut away at my DZ was at a boogie we had and it was by a packer from a different DZ packing for people from that DZ. That packer packed more then one mal that weekend, only one resulted in a cutaway, though.


AndyMan  (D 25698)

Nov 13, 2002, 8:45 PM
Post #2 of 19 (1332 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Packer malfunction rate [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not aware of any malfunction that has been attributed to a packer at my DZ.

_Am


Casch

Nov 13, 2002, 8:57 PM
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It's still not clear what exactly happened. But the consensus was that a packer error caused a guys hard-opening. It was such a hard opening that on the ground it sounded like thunder! It actually blew open 3 full cells and he chopped. He wasn't happy with the packer at all Crazy


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Nov 13, 2002, 8:58 PM
Post #4 of 19 (1319 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Packer malfunction rate [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm 1/1... packed one tandem... had one tandem chop. I'll stick to packing other stuff.


Casch

Nov 13, 2002, 9:05 PM
Post #5 of 19 (1315 views)
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Ouch...that's not a very good confidence builder. Hey, coulda been a pilot error Crazy


AggieDave  (D License)

Nov 13, 2002, 9:34 PM
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Re: [Casch] Packer malfunction rate [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
coulda been a pilot error

Depends, if it was bad line twists, then it is usually the tandem student's fault, but also partly the TM's fault for not leg locking the student right before they deployed.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Nov 13, 2002, 9:37 PM
Post #7 of 19 (1296 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Packer malfunction rate [In reply to] Can't Post

Nope... improperly stowed brake popped on opening and took the tandem for a wild ride. Smile

Since then I've packed 5 or 6 reserves and 400 mains.. I think I'm a little better now then I was then. I think I've got a save in there too on the student rig.


AggieDave  (D License)

Nov 13, 2002, 10:17 PM
Post #8 of 19 (1282 views)
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Quote:
improperly stowed brake popped on opening and took the tandem for a wild ride

Yeah, that could do it. Seems to me that a heads up TM could have popped the other brake, but I wasn't there, so who knows.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
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Nov 13, 2002, 10:27 PM
Post #9 of 19 (1275 views)
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TM is a TE with 2000+ tandems... It was wild watching from the ground. I would have chopped it on a heatbeat.


kopelen  (D 25050)

Nov 14, 2002, 6:22 AM
Post #10 of 19 (1201 views)
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Tandem students are to be controlled by the Tandem master, if a student fails to do something, then you failed to teach it, explain it, or do it. Just my .02 Smile


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Nov 14, 2002, 7:48 AM
Post #11 of 19 (1172 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Packer malfunction rate [In reply to] Can't Post

Aggiedave,
Where does the textbook say that a tandem instructor is supposed to leg lock his student right before deployment?
Initially (1986) I was taught to grab the students' hands and fly their body around the skies, but after one too many students had death grips on my hands at pull time, I quit putting my hands where they could grab them.
Leg locking students is another thing I used to do. If a student is seriously de-arched, I will try digging my heels into the tops of their knees, but half of them ignore that signal, so I revert to arching my @#$ss off. Eventually I concluded that if they want to de-arch, that is their problem. I just stick my legs out as far as possible and fly my own body.
The bottom line is that tandem students do stupid things no matter what you teach them on the ground. A good tandem instructor can fly his body well enough to prevent violent spins.
No matter what you do you are going to get line twists occaisionally.


AggieDave  (D License)

Nov 14, 2002, 8:01 AM
Post #12 of 19 (1166 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] Packer malfunction rate [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Where does the textbook say that a tandem instructor is supposed to leg lock his student right before deployment

It doesn't, but if the student has his/her knees down or is being a problem, then leg locking them works well (from what I'm told).

Quote:
No matter what you do you are going to get line twists occaisionally.

Exactly.


underdog  (D 22375)

Nov 14, 2002, 9:50 AM
Post #13 of 19 (1142 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Packer malfunction rate [In reply to] Can't Post

you can read all the books you want to, but until you've had a whuffo strapped in front of you, your just relaying theory and supposition instead of actual knowledge.


AggieDave  (D License)

Nov 14, 2002, 10:09 AM
Post #14 of 19 (1134 views)
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Quote:
you can read all the books you want to, but until you've had a whuffo strapped in front of you, your just relaying theory and supposition instead of actual knowledge.

Yes, I know, thats why I said that it was information that I got from TMs.

This is just my perspective from a packer's point of view.Smile

The original point of this thread was to try to find out what other DZ's packers are doing in the form of malfunctions, the number of which, what kind of mal and if it was on a Tandem or a sport rig.


gale  (B 5141)

Nov 14, 2002, 10:29 AM
Post #15 of 19 (1125 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Packer malfunction rate [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, I'm not badmouthing anyone here, because I like this packer, but seeing as you asked the question I thought I'd reply...

This packer has packed two malfunctions in the last 6 months. So that's maybe 2 out of 200 sport packs. One of which almost killed the jumper. Now I can't garentee that they were both his fault - one definately yes - the other probably yes. These aren't really good numbers - far higher then the rate statistically. When he flat packs student gear there are no problems, it just seems that he's not as careful pro-packing (maybe, like I said, I like the guy)

Gale


Ducky  (A License)

Nov 14, 2002, 9:32 PM
Post #16 of 19 (1074 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Packer malfunction rate [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
coulda been a pilot error

Depends, if it was bad line twists, then it is usually the tandem student's fault, but also partly the TM's fault for not leg locking the student right before they deployed.


Correct if I'm wrong here, but isn't any decent TM beyond blaming a student for problems??? I have always been under the assumption that the TM is responsible for the entire skydive.

kwak


Skyrose7  (D 26573)

Nov 14, 2002, 9:32 PM
Post #17 of 19 (1074 views)
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Re: [gale] Packer malfunction rate [In reply to] Can't Post

hmm. I am a packer at my dz. I started packing student rigs at the beginning of the summer and packed no mals. Our experienced jumpers pack their own. We haven't had a mal due to the packers in a long time.


RichM  (D 100226)

Nov 15, 2002, 4:51 AM
Post #18 of 19 (1040 views)
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Re: [gale] Packer malfunction rate [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Well, I'm not badmouthing anyone here, because I like this packer, but seeing as you asked the question I thought I'd reply...

This packer has packed two malfunctions in the last 6 months. So that's maybe 2 out of 200 sport packs. <snip>
These aren't really good numbers - far higher then the rate statistically.

Lies, damned lies and statistics as the saying goes. I know nothing about this dz, the packer, the incidents concerned, etc. But the above statement made me judder. 2 in a guessed 200. What if the next 10,000 packs have no mals? Then he/she is a good packer.

Also an average is exactly that and it is unlikely that anyone will actually be exactly average. It seems reasonable to expect a standard bell curve distribution around the average.

I hate statistics, except when I'm at work when I abuse them to validate my point of view, irrespective of the facts.Sly


gale  (B 5141)

Nov 15, 2002, 5:07 PM
Post #19 of 19 (986 views)
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Re: [RichM] Packer malfunction rate [In reply to] Can't Post

I understand what you're saying. I was attempting to answer the question posed not make judgments about this packers performance. The numbers I've listed are just what I've seen and I just posted them for informations sake. You can make what you want of them. I do.

Gale



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