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FJC Malfunction Video

 

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Para5-0  (D 19054)

Apr 2, 2007, 12:26 PM
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FJC Malfunction Video Can't Post

Those Instructors that do use a malfunction video in your FJC, I know not all do, what video are you using? Are there any student FJC friendly malfunction videos being used, and if so where can I get one? The one I was using is not bad but obviously outdated.

Thank You.


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Apr 4, 2007, 5:22 PM
Post #2 of 68 (4033 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] FJC Malfunction Video [In reply to] Can't Post

OK then what is being used, plastic lamenated pics?
Am I the only AFFI using a video to assist me?

Just looking to improve my FJC.....


labrys  (D 29848)

Apr 4, 2007, 7:13 PM
Post #3 of 68 (4017 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] FJC Malfunction Video [In reply to] Can't Post

We use a "home-made" one. The mals were packed into an intentional cutaway rig.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)
Moderator
Apr 4, 2007, 9:15 PM
Post #4 of 68 (4001 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] FJC Malfunction Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Mike McGowan used to have/may still have one he made, catch up w/him at Eloy....


dragon2  (D 101989)

Apr 6, 2007, 12:09 AM
Post #5 of 68 (3926 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] FJC Malfunction Video [In reply to] Can't Post

You could always make your own, plenty of mals on skydivingmovies for instance. I got this mal on tape somewhere
http://www.12000ft.com/video/22.html


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Apr 6, 2007, 7:42 AM
Post #6 of 68 (3909 views)
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Re: [dragon2] FJC Malfunction Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks, a couple of our guys at the DZ are working on putting something together, I will distribut when it is done, to those that might want to use to assist teaching. I beleive a small part was just posted on skydiving movies. Just a beginning.


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Apr 7, 2007, 4:50 AM
Post #7 of 68 (3863 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] FJC Malfunction Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Its funny this post is here . I am working with a AFFI on making a video . This what we have so far . Its in its early stages and the last part is going to be taken out

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=5577


(This post was edited by ozzy13 on Apr 7, 2007, 4:51 AM)


tdog  (D 28800)

Apr 7, 2007, 8:37 AM
Post #8 of 68 (3849 views)
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Re: [ozzy13] FJC Malfunction Video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Its funny this post is here . I am working with a AFFI on making a video . This what we have so far . Its in its early stages and the last part is going to be taken out

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=5577

Your video has high production quality to it - however I would not use it in the current state yet... Some of the mals are so slow - "we get it, time to move on"... Some of the mals are breezed by...

Also, I don't like the fact some of the mals show chops and some don't... Why? I want to teach my students when and when not to chop. You have many chop-worthy shots, some get chopped, some don't. Some they wait a long time, some they don't....

For an example, the line over gets chopped, but the tear doesn't.

Also, I did not like the crash landings into the tent at the WFFC, as the cutaway was below the 2,500 foot decision altitude taught to FJC students and the crash was avoidable.

So, now that I tore it apart like an ass-hat... Here is what I would try to do. Don't show ANY EPs - just show the mal pre-EP. Make sure every video clip is "by the book". And make sure each one has a very happy ending (for an example, I think the line twists on a reserve would be too scary to show. We all know it could happen, we discuss it in the class, but lets not build the negative thought "my reserve is going to mal too" with video.) Shocked


chriswelker  (D 19678)

Apr 7, 2007, 11:27 AM
Post #9 of 68 (3839 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] FJC Malfunction Video [In reply to] Can't Post

the cutaway video from pier ltd is a good one.


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Apr 7, 2007, 11:36 AM
Post #10 of 68 (3836 views)
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Re: [tdog] FJC Malfunction Video [In reply to] Can't Post

 - however I would not use it in the current state yet... Some of the mals are so slow - "we get it, time to move on"... Some of the mals are breezed by...

Well this is one of my fears in posting it . Getting critics. It still is in the early stages . I put it on skydiving movies so my AFFI could take a look at it and tell me what he thought.

Also, I don't like the fact some of the mals show chops and some don't... Why? I want to teach my students when and when not to chop. You have many chop-worthy shots, some get chopped, some don't. Some they wait a long time, some they don't....

On this I am limited to the footage I can get. I think we want to show the malfunction and he can discuss the end result. They use flase cards right now and this way you can understand it a little better ( maybe)

For an example, the line over gets chopped, but the tear doesn't.


The tear does I just didnt show it .

Also, I did not like the crash landings into the tent at the WFFC, as the cutaway was below the 2,500 foot decision altitude taught to FJC students and the crash was avoidable.

The editing is not done

So, now that I tore it apart like an ass-hat... Here is what I would try to do. Don't show ANY EPs - just show the mal pre-EP. Make sure every video clip is "by the book". And make sure each one has a very happy ending (for an example, I think the line twists on a reserve would be too scary to show. We all know it could happen, we discuss it in the class, but lets not build the negative thought "my reserve is going to mal too" with video.) Shocked

Thanks for your comments and again it is in its early stages we are going to break the video into chapters with exits, dive flows landings, deployments ect. so if you have any good video we can use please email me . Thanks and Blue skies Wink


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Apr 8, 2007, 9:21 AM
Post #11 of 68 (3778 views)
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Re: [ozzy13] FJC Malfunction Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Just a few things to keep in mind....'the intention of this video is to assist a new student in recognizing a specific malfunction. In class lecture will fill in the gaps on proper procedures, coupled with harness training, and positive re-enforcement. Again, this will NOT be played in its entirety, and only used to show a specific topic from the perspective of a skydiver. Further,,,,this is a work in progress so positive/negative feedback is welcomed, from all skydivers as well as AFFI's.

NO EP's will be shown, Again, I just took a look at this and immediately recognized some positive and negative thoughts. It will be gone over thouroughly prior to using anything in a FJC, trust me...AFFI
and all of it will not be used.....your comments will serve as good input.......Thanks


elias123  (D 108)

Apr 10, 2007, 6:37 AM
Post #12 of 68 (3668 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] FJC Malfunction Video [In reply to] Can't Post

IMO Breakaway is a very good malfunction video for both the novice and experienced. You can order it at paragear.com


Premier riggerwink  (D 5602)

Apr 10, 2007, 8:20 AM
Post #13 of 68 (3661 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] FJC Malfunction Video [In reply to] Can't Post

It's a coincedence that this thread happens to come up right now. I have just finished editing a first jump course video that has been four years in the making. Actually, the scripting started in the summer of 2002 by Tim and Sherry Butcher and the filming started in February 2003. Tim and Sherry have invested over $10,000 in equipment, travel, payroll and other associated costs. Tim and his partner, Kevin McCole, have donated countless hours of aircraft time and I have invested hundreds of hours editing.

We have used the classroom at AerOhio as a “proving ground” for the past year to gain feedback from students and instructors to re-edit, tweak and polish this very professional production.

This version is AerOhio Specific while the “generic” version is in the editing suite being readied for market as this is written.

The video is broken down into 40 chapters so that instructors may page through as they choose. It includes all facets of the first jump course including equipment, emergency procedures, actual staged malfunctions, canopy checks, freefall priorities, decision altitudes, landing priorities, air speed vs ground speed, landing patterns, after landing and last but not least, out takes and bloopers.

My plan is to advertise in all the Skydiving publications and to offer a free sampler which will show short clips of each segment so that the customer will know what he/ she is getting before they order. The price will be $399.00 with a introductory price of $299.00

This production is vital to the skydiving community and is long overdue. It will put everyone on the same page, which is essential to drop zones that use a number of different instructors to teach their first jump courses.

If you want to order the video or a sampler. email me at riggerwink@earthlink.net


dragon2  (D 101989)

Apr 10, 2007, 11:23 AM
Post #14 of 68 (3617 views)
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Re: [ozzy13] FJC Malfunction Video [In reply to] Can't Post

You forgot slider-up, if you want I have some video from last weekend Unimpressed

Also, the music is a major destraction (at least to me), if I was making a ideo like that I'd either lose the music altogether or use something low-key. it's supposed to be serious, pay attention, not a boogie video.


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Apr 10, 2007, 1:05 PM
Post #15 of 68 (3600 views)
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Re: [dragon2] FJC Malfunction Video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You forgot slider-up, if you want I have some video from last weekend Unimpressed

Also, the music is a major destraction (at least to me), if I was making a ideo like that I'd either lose the music altogether or use something low-key. it's supposed to be serious, pay attention, not a boogie video.

The music was put on there just for the web site. ( For Show) We have slider up in the edited version Thanks Wink


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Apr 10, 2007, 4:59 PM
Post #16 of 68 (3581 views)
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Re: [dragon2] FJC Malfunction Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Here is where we are at with it
http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=5587


AFFI  (D 25538)

Apr 10, 2007, 6:36 PM
Post #17 of 68 (3576 views)
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Re: [ozzy13] FJC Malfunction Video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
line twists on a reserve would be too scary to show. We all know it could happen, we discuss it in the class, but lets not build the negative thought

You discuss reserve LT's in a FJC?

Showing this video (music or not) to skydiving students is not beneficial to teaching how to deal with malfunctions, it is a poorly constructed production and a waste of valuable FJC time.

Teaching is not showing cool footage, or telling someone about things that can go wrong; it is the transferring of knowledge from one brain to another from someone who knows, to someone who does not. After a well taught class, students will have a new body of knowledge they did not have before, they possess common knowledge about a subject that was uncommon to them prior to the block of instruction.

Showing students a video like this is not teaching anymore than sitting a child in front of the television to watch the Simpsons is.
-


(This post was edited by AFFI on Apr 10, 2007, 9:41 PM)


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Apr 10, 2007, 7:45 PM
Post #18 of 68 (3574 views)
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Re: [AFFI] FJC Malfunction Video [In reply to] Can't Post

As I am NOT a AFFI ,I am working with one on this video . With that said I did go threw AFF and I have to strongly disagree with you on everything you have said . Heres why , I think video is a great tool in teaching skydiving . It is only a tool to use in the teaching process . Just telling someone what can go wrong is not enough in my opinion.I think the student would get a much better understanding of let say a line twist , If you show a video of it and then tell them how to get out of it. This way when they get one they dont panic and chop it because they only had a AFF I tell them what it looked like or the saw a flash card . Then again I dont have the rating and I dont teach AFF so what do I know but thanks for your comments Blue skies


AFFI  (D 25538)

Apr 10, 2007, 8:57 PM
Post #19 of 68 (3562 views)
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Re: [ozzy13] FJC Malfunction Video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have to strongly disagree with you on everything you have said . Heres why , I think video is a great tool in teaching skydiving .

You are correct, utiliing multimedia is a great tool to teach ANYTHING...

My intention was not to imply that utilizing video was not a good teaching tool (for many years, I constructed educational multimedia with teams of highly educated individuals as a profession as an animator, interactive authoring and post production specialist). I have provided the skydiving center I work at with intensely productive and valuable learning media that required literally hundreds hours of pre-preparation prior to sitting down at an editing station. So trust me when I say that I understand fully the value of well thought out, planned media in which to utilize for training purposes.

What I meant to imply, or rather straightforwardly state, is that particular production is not an effective piece of video in which to support teaching blocks of instruction concerning malfunctions to skydiving students. Far from it…
It is just a collection of poorly edited footage that has gone less than perfect for a bunch of skydivers who posted their videotaped mishaps online. There is virtually no significant and effective learning that can take place from watching that collection of malfunctions for a skydiving student. There is no structure; there is no effective teaching of the necessary protocols that a student can utilize in their toolboxes of survival.

I would not want none of my loved ones attending a skydiving school that wastes valuable ground training time on such poorly produced material that has a total lack of valuable teaching structure…


That being said, I admire and respect what you are attempting to do and the fact that you wish to contribute to the development of our sport.
If I may offer some advice, and it is from someone well qualified to give it, so you an either take it to heart or take offense.

You state that – “Well this is one of my fears in posting it . Getting critics.”
First lesson of production: Hang your ego at the door, learn to embrace criticism.

What you need to do is to develop an outline of what is important for the students to learn, and this will require a tremendous amount of effort on your part to research and obtain the information, that being information that is correct tried and true. Then edit and re-write the outline (storyboard) over and over until you have a good bit of information on which to guide your efforts (for example, it too me 2 years and hundreds of hours of research to develop an outline for teaching malfunctions to skydiving students). It is no trivial endeavor.

Furthermore, one aspect of the conveyance of this information you may want to consider getting out of your head is the illustrations of negatives. Showing someone what not to do is not an effective teaching method.

In your statement:
“I want to teach my students when and when not to chop. You have many chop-worthy shots, some get chopped, some don't. Some they wait a long time, some they don't....”

What you are doing is asking valuable questions that require much thought and consideration – you are pondering the how’s and why’s, the first task is to get yourself to a level that leaves you with a innate understanding of the intricate (and correct) details, it is only after your acquisition of obtaining that correct knowledge that you can then finally begin to ask yourself how conveying this to students in a manner that will benefit the learning process to occur and how that can adequately be attained.
Perhaps the most important thing I am attempting to communicate to you, is not to get into a hurry and put out developmental material that may be counterproductive to the very best training material you have the ability to produce, it takes time, so don’t rush it.

Finally your usage of the words “my students” implies that you have a desire to one day be a teacher of skydiving, which was my primary goal from the time I made my very first jump so I understand completely your desire to acquire all the knowledge you can during your journey to that end, in fact, I too began to research such information long before I acquired my AFF rating, as you are. A very important aspect of that is to ensure that the knowledge you do obtain is absolutely as correct as you can possibly make it for yourself, by that I am referring to the many hours of research from a multitude of sources I mentioned earlier that will be required by you in your endeavors.

Sorry for the length of this post, but I wanted to ensure that I left no ambigious aspects of my reply to you, or my hope that one day you will acieve the plateaus you seem to be aspiring to achieve. This is evident by my taking the time to compose a well thought out and inclusive message.

Good luck (actually, luck has nothing to do with it, what I meant to say is, Get to work!)…

_


(This post was edited by AFFI on Apr 10, 2007, 8:58 PM)


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Apr 11, 2007, 10:02 AM
Post #20 of 68 (3527 views)
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Re: [AFFI] FJC Malfunction Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for taking the time to wright what you did . I respect all comment given to me about this sport .

There are a few thing I would like to replay to
The reason I posted the first video , Is to show my AFFI that I am working with and what footage I got from SDM's . I threw it together to put on that web site so he can see what I had . We live in two different states. Since I put it up there I figure lets not make it boring . He is NOT showing that in a class room . I have put a new video up on there with that footage from the first video and a video he already had . Again he is not going to use that either. Its the only way I can show him the progress .

What we want to do is break every part of the jump class in to chapters on a DVD . The good and the bad

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=5587

This is the second one and its VERY FAR from being done

In your last reply you said a few thing that I would like to answer

1.You state that – “Well this is one of my fears in posting it . Getting critics.”
First lesson of production: Hang your ego at the door, learn to embrace criticism

I have know problem with critics . I just posted so My AFFI could see it and the fear was that I would get critic's on something that was not done

2.
In your statement:
“I want to teach my students when and when not to chop. You have many chop-worthy shots, some get chopped, some don't. Some they wait a long time, some they don't....”


That was some esles statement that I was replying too

3.one aspect of the conveyance of this information you may want to consider getting out of your head is the illustrations of negatives. Showing someone what not to do is not an effective teaching method.

I agree

4.“my students

If I said this I didn't mean too but I do want to get my AFF rating someday

Again Thank you for your time in taking different looks at thing it does help.


(This post was edited by ozzy13 on Apr 11, 2007, 10:08 AM)


AFFI  (D 25538)

Apr 11, 2007, 10:37 AM
Post #21 of 68 (3521 views)
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Re: [ozzy13] FJC Malfunction Video [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
1.You state that – “Well this is one of my fears in posting it . Getting critics.”
First lesson of production: Hang your ego at the door, learn to embrace criticism

I have know problem with critics . I just posted so My AFFI could see it and the fear was that I would get critic's on something that was not done
Then do not post your work in progress on a public site...

BUT

Getting other experts (plural) to look at your WIP is very important to producing the best material you possibly can.
-


(This post was edited by AFFI on Apr 11, 2007, 10:49 AM)


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Apr 11, 2007, 10:44 AM
Post #22 of 68 (3515 views)
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Re: [AFFI] FJC Malfunction Video [In reply to] Can't Post

YOU ARE SO RIGHT lol


AFFI  (D 25538)

Apr 11, 2007, 10:45 AM
Post #23 of 68 (3515 views)
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Re: [Para5-0] FJC Malfunction Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Some things for anyone wishing to create training material to consider:

DO NOT show incorrect procedures, especially without supporting dialogue that explains the situation. I cannot stress that enough.
For example:
Showing a BiPlane being cutaway that nearly created an entanglement. If a student sees this and gets into their head it is okay to cut this 2-out situation away it could kill them! As in a dead person, a child without a parent - all because they were taught incorrect information...

Another example:
Teaching Line Twists incorrectly.
Imagine a student trying to deal with this malfunction (BTW - there is no such thing as an "Unusual Situation", it is either a Total, Partial or a Good canopy) and does not pay attention to their altitude and flies the Line Twists right into power lines.
What you now have is a DEAD person and now you, as the creator of this training material will have to sit in a courtroom and explain to a Judge and Jury while looking the surviving members of that persons family in the eye, why you supplied incorrect training information that resulted in someone's death...

That is the potential ramification of developing training material for this sport, if you deliver incorrect information, even in the slightest, it can result in someone’s death.
That is a heavy responsibility to take on, consider that before you decide to burden yourself with such a heavy responsibility!
Even if you create a good piece of training material, lawyers can still tear your ass up in a courtroom, so you better hire a lawyer beforehand and learn how to protect yourself.
Even an AFFI with years of experience may not have sufficient knowledge or ability to teach at a level that is sufficient to hold up under the scrutiny of a courtroom, so you had better get your source material from more than one source, hell, more than 10 sources.

Always think to yourself –
How will this hold up in court?
And
Will I be able to sleep at night if I cause someone’s death?

Just some things to think about…
-


ozzy13  (D 29344)

Apr 11, 2007, 11:21 AM
Post #24 of 68 (3496 views)
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Re: [AFFI] FJC Malfunction Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Dude Thanks but stop drowning me in your negativity. Blue skies


Premier DSE  (D 29060)
Moderator
Apr 11, 2007, 11:41 AM
Post #25 of 68 (3492 views)
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Re: [AFFI] FJC Malfunction Video [In reply to] Can't Post

Amen, Mykel.
Many video producers/editors don't consider the ramifications of their liability if they create a bad/misinformed/poorly explained training product.
Today's world of inexpensive video gear has a lot of folks jumping in with both feet, but they don't have the backup they need to pull it off. Mercedes-Benz found themselves in a bad situation a couple years ago with streaming files that didn't correctly show a repair feature; a mechanic lost fingers as a result. He sued MB. I don't know the final outcome, but it was a big deal in the DMA (Digital Media Association). I suspect this also isn't why we see "how to" videos in the action sports scene. This is indeed why you see multiple, vehement disclaimers on Stunt Junkies, Mythbusters, and other similar shows. Hell, if Judas Priest can find themselves in a multimillion $$ lawsuit because a song potentially suggested suicide...
It's all fair game, and all things are open to personal interpretation.
I'm not an AFFI, but do create a substantial amount of training material for Honda, Sony, Yamaha, etc.
In the cases of Honda/Yamaha, we are not, nor are resellers, permitted to show any motor vehicle with less than 3 wheels on the ground at any point in the training or commercial presentation for reasons of liability.


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