Forums: Skydiving: Wind Tunnels:
Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor

 

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stormywinters

Mar 18, 2007, 9:41 AM
Post #26 of 136 (1247 views)
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     Re: [brettski74] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

 Her ? was how much should a tipper tip, NOT should you tip. Like I said its okay to not tip. Its just a way of letting your instructor know you apppreciate their efforts, and to keep doing what they are doing. Tips are NOT exspected, but they give the instructor motivation to keep workin hard. You dont have to tip. Its okay if she wants to, she is not giving away your money, so let it go! You must just be a NON TIPPER. Thats cool!!! No one cares what YOU give. Dont get worked up fellas. This wave may just be too big for you. By the way..... no one is going to find other work!!


brettski74  (C 3197)

Mar 18, 2007, 10:10 AM
Post #27 of 136 (1237 views)
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     Re: [stormywinters] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

In reply to:
was how much should a tipper tip, NOT should you tip.

Yes - you're right. That was the original question, but you were the one who brought up that people should tip - your words, not mine.

In reply to:
You dont have to tip. Its okay if she wants to, she is not giving away your money, so let it go! You must just be a NON TIPPER. Thats cool!!!

Your original post gave the opposite impression. So does your emphasizing of the words "non tipper" in this post.

In reply to:
This wave may just be too big for you.

I'm not sure I understand this talk about waves. Are you a surfer, perhaps?

In reply to:
By the way..... no one is going to find other work!!

I agree, but I see how my original post may have been misconstrued. I've edited it to hopefully more accurately convey what I was trying to say.


(This post was edited by brettski74 on Mar 18, 2007, 10:58 AM)


stormywinters

Mar 18, 2007, 10:32 AM
Post #28 of 136 (1227 views)
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     Re: [brettski74] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

When I say you should tip, I was talking to Jewels, cause she wants to tip and people are saying it is wrong. Its not right or wrong, its what ever you feel like doing. As like a tunnel instructor who may or may not offer free coaching, it is their call, and people that get it will show their appreciation. I am a tunnel instructor, and I try to give great service to everyone tip or no tip I will work hard for them! I think life is like surfing, and everyone has their idea of what is the perfect wave. Like romance, there is someone for everyone! You say shes a 6, I say shes a 10! I'm just tryin to get a little off subject, if you follow!


(This post was edited by stormywinters on Mar 18, 2007, 10:34 AM)


brettski74  (C 3197)

Mar 18, 2007, 11:00 AM
Post #29 of 136 (1206 views)
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     Re: [stormywinters] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

Then I think we can agree. Smile


stormywinters

Mar 18, 2007, 12:04 PM
Post #30 of 136 (1191 views)
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     Re: [brettski74] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

  I just think that tunnel training is at its best form. Everyone is freeflyin, doing lots of freefly training, building nice formations, teaching new drills and finding the tunnels are producing amazing flyers. The tunnel instructors see all drills, replicate spots that are missed and take a lot of pounding. Life gaurds sit in a chair and makes a save once a year. These guys are spotting heavy falls, coaching, pushing people out of their comfort zone, training, while putting lots of wear and tear on the spotters shoulders, back and knees. This is beyond the "CALL OF DUTY!" These guys are spending years doing the rough stuff, to obtain the amount of hour$ watching, to get to become good coaches, and they want to do this! To help the industry grow. The training is all changing, the old Advanced level is now Intermediate, and there is a new Advanced. That lots of people want and some just want to go fun fly. Tunnel "RATS" do a lot of training behind closed door$. So, when someone like "Jewels" want to tip, and give the guy a push to keep going, just to say "HEY, if I never get to go in with you again, keep doing THAT what you are doing. People Need to see THAT!" I would think SHE is helping, and if I wanted no training, than I would NOT tip. But, I would still say "NICE ONE JELEWS!" Good looking out!Unsure


(This post was edited by stormywinters on Mar 18, 2007, 12:27 PM)


Jewels  (Student)

Mar 18, 2007, 12:44 PM
Post #31 of 136 (1174 views)
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     Re: [stormywinters] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

LOL--well, thank you. I am just trying to get it right. My instructors DO put out a lot of effort for me and I appreciate it. I notice when they give 110% (which is more often than not), and that happens before they ever know whether they're going to get a tip or how much it might be. So, while I don't necessarily know that I can pay $20 every week when we have league, I am going to make it a point to tip SOMEthing. If it's not $20 or more, please don't be offended. It's my way of trying to be consistent while giving something I can afford.


diablopilot  (D License)

Mar 18, 2007, 12:47 PM
Post #32 of 136 (1174 views)
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     Re: [Squeak] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
No one should choose an alternative employment. There is a big difference in pay as an instructor, pay for a coach, and tip for your instructor. You should tip your instructor, its a possitive way to say "I like what you did for us in that last session". Everyone says "thanks", but a tip says 'I want you to do more of that" Even if it is staying out of the way and not becoming a distraction. Tunnel instructors can try an take over the session, change the direction and screw up a good plan(maybe a plan to have fun).$10 or $20 bucks teaches the crew what you like. Sure you could tell them if your that type to talk it out, but a tip works for the non-talkers. Yet, if that tunnel instructor asks, then teaches you as much as a coach would and gets you over obsticles, then you should tip them like a coach. And for you non tippers, its okay to not tip, you just want to know (if you are local), if you dont take care of your bar tender then you just get the regular!! Dont take it to serious, everyone prefers a different size wave!
Bullshit, you are hired and paid to provide a service. if you are not happy with the money piss off and find more gainfull employment.
Tipping should only EVER be for something OUTSTANDING and above normal practice for the job discription. treating ANY customer less because they dont tip shows how porrly you are suited to the job.

As for the 10-20 buck teaches the crew what you like, do your friggin job properly and make certain the customer knows what they are paying for. that way the customer pays for what is offered and the staff gets paid for what they are hired to do.

Agreed.


diablopilot  (D License)

Mar 18, 2007, 12:49 PM
Post #33 of 136 (1173 views)
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     Re: [brettski74] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

Quote:
While there is value in tunnel training from the tunnel rat, if he/she expects to be paid for it, then he/she should say so up front, otherwise you're doing it out of the goodness of your heart as far as the customer knows. If the customer chooses to pay you anyway, then great. If not, then so be it.

Also an excellent point.


RackJR  (D 27326)

Mar 18, 2007, 12:56 PM
Post #34 of 136 (1167 views)
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     Re: [Jewels] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

so after all that Julie......

tips are appreciated, Julie. we don't have a chart either. whatever you feel like tipping, we're going to be ok with.
thanks


and squeek, when i say "whatever", that can mean "zero", and i'll still be ok with it.


Jewels  (Student)

Mar 18, 2007, 1:03 PM
Post #35 of 136 (1163 views)
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     Re: [RackJR] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

Crazy Okay. I'm good with that.

Thanks, guys.


stormywinters

Mar 18, 2007, 1:35 PM
Post #36 of 136 (1151 views)
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     Re: [Jewels] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

 Jewels you should not tip every time. Tip when you feel overly excited about your session! When you want too, only then!


(This post was edited by stormywinters on Mar 18, 2007, 2:02 PM)


sartre

Mar 18, 2007, 2:10 PM
Post #37 of 136 (1143 views)
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     Re: [Squeak] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

Quote:
make certain the customer knows what they are paying for. that way the customer pays for what is offered and the staff gets paid for what they are hired to do.

There you have it. The root of the problem, as I see it. I had no idea I was expecting something for free from any of the instructors. Let alone causing resentment because of it.

Lesson I learned? I can't afford the tunnel right now. I'd rather not go than be perceived as trying to take advantage and get something for nothing.

Sorry to any SVCO people that I may have offended at any point in regards to the issue of tipping. I am, and always have been, very impressed by the skill, demeanor, and professionalism of almost every employee there. I'll be happy to fly again when the finances are back under control.Smile


stormywinters

Mar 18, 2007, 2:45 PM
Post #38 of 136 (1133 views)
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     Re: [sartre] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

I dont work for SVCO, and I dont believe there is any resentment. Just friendly advice that was asked for!)


Squeak  (E 1313)

Mar 18, 2007, 4:24 PM
Post #39 of 136 (1113 views)
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     Re: [RackJR] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

This is the way i see service intdustries (tunnel supervision/coaching is a service)
there is a minimum standard that should be met by everyone working there. that minimum should be met at ALL times by the staff, to do anything less is tant ammount to stealing from the boss. You are paid to do a particular job well, not paid to do it half arsed.


Anything above that minimum standard is choice.
Now if you start out in a manner with people which is above that standard, then you should maintain the standard that YOU have set with these people. To lower that standard for some and not for others is in my way of thinking is wrong.

If you set a higher standard of service based on tipping I think this is also wrong, because what you are actually doing is offing a higher level of service (a different product) for a different fee structure.
This is nothing wrong with doing that but be honest and up front about it and charge people accorningly AT THE START.





Now as for tipping in general, if I were in somthing like the league, the point at which I would be most likely to tip is at or towards the end of the season, not an a weekly/fornightly basis.
If i have had a great time throughout the season I would look after the people who looked after me.


Bowen  (C 37322)

Mar 19, 2007, 5:46 AM
Post #40 of 136 (1077 views)
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     Re: [Squeak] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

In reply to:
In reply to:
No one should choose an alternative employment. There is a big difference in pay as an instructor, pay for a coach, and tip for your instructor. You should tip your instructor, its a possitive way to say "I like what you did for us in that last session". Everyone says "thanks", but a tip says 'I want you to do more of that" Even if it is staying out of the way and not becoming a distraction. Tunnel instructors can try an take over the session, change the direction and screw up a good plan(maybe a plan to have fun).$10 or $20 bucks teaches the crew what you like. Sure you could tell them if your that type to talk it out, but a tip works for the non-talkers. Yet, if that tunnel instructor asks, then teaches you as much as a coach would and gets you over obsticles, then you should tip them like a coach. And for you non tippers, its okay to not tip, you just want to know (if you are local), if you dont take care of your bar tender then you just get the regular!! Dont take it to serious, everyone prefers a different size wave!
Bullshit, you are hired and paid to provide a service. if you are not happy with the money piss off and find more gainfull employment.
Tipping should only EVER be for something OUTSTANDING and above normal practice for the job discription. treating ANY customer less because they dont tip shows how porrly you are suited to the job.

As for the 10-20 buck teaches the crew what you like, do your friggin job properly and make certain the customer knows what they are paying for. that way the customer pays for what is offered and the staff gets paid for what they are hired to do.




It all depends on what was done. If the instructor is teaching you how to fly then a tip is definitely appreciated, how much is up to you, unfortunately (from my experience) most skydivers looking to get “coaching “ from me while I am working do not tip a dime and I see this all day long with other instructors as well. Now if you have your own coach and his is coaching you then I don’t think the instructor should get a tip. He is doing his job, looking after your safety. The tunnel doesn’t pay well and yeah we get fly time but the job comes with the price of injuries (small and large) and even permanent injuries. It is a very physical job and that takes it toll over a few years, this is coming from experience.

It is a job, many of us love our job and we love to teach but when it comes down to it, our job description is safety, not teaching, we help out because we want to, it’s our passion.

My range? Anything is nice. A few dollars to what ever, it just shows that you care about me, the person who cares that you learn and get better.

-Bowen


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Mar 19, 2007, 6:17 AM
Post #41 of 136 (1073 views)
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     Re: [Squeak] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Now as for tipping in general,

in general, by definition, tipping is voluntary

once it becomes "expected", then I don't go to those places - once I see a tip jar with a big old label, guarantee nothing will go into that jar

Specifically, I've never seen a tunnel attendent act like it's expected or an entitlement - I think that's cool. We've given cash, and we've also just bought lunch for the staff, etc. Never have we felt pressured. (If I ever do, I'd never tip at any location again).

That's what wrong with restaurants - it's expected.

Edit: I like the life guard analogy. If you hire a tunnel attendent to perform as a coach, then you should pay extra and it should be arranged.


(This post was edited by rehmwa on Mar 19, 2007, 6:19 AM)


Scubadivemaster  (D License)

Mar 19, 2007, 8:16 AM
Post #42 of 136 (1058 views)
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     Re: [rehmwa] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

I think your use of the term "attendant" highlights the confusion and disagreement about tipping tunnel employees.

If the tunnel employee who is assigned to our session is indeed assigned as an "attendant", I expect him to do the job of an attendant, and no more. He or she can spot for us as we enter the tunnel, make the decision whether to give us more air if we ask for it, and jump in to rescue us if we are in danger of hurting ourselves. I expect basic verbal instruction on the rules of the tunnel, and how not to hurt myself. That is all part of the job, and I'm not tipping for that any more than I tip the cashier at a restaurant. Anything additional that employee does, when he could just be standing in the door watching, will begin to earn him brownie points with me, redeemable for tips or beer later. Smile

However, if the employee is assigned as "an instructor", which is included in the cost of the tunnel time, then I expect to get instruction as part of that cost. I expect the instructor to be qualified and enthusiastic and deliver service with a smile. If I feel like the instructor has gone above and beyond what would normally be expected, I can elect to give him a tip.

I think that if this role were more clearly defined, we would all know better when that employee has gone beyond his required job duties. Perhaps a big sign on the wall that says:

Your tunnel attendant will: spot, etc
but WILL NOT: (whatever)
If you feel you need more assistance, coaches are available for an additional fee.

I have done tunnel time where I though I was paying for an attendant, and ended up with darn near as much coaching as I got when I paid for coach time. I certainly did not expect that, and it was more service than the service for which I had paid. While I felt no obligation to pay for this additional service, I certainly wanted to. I was excited that I had learned a lot more than I thought I was going to, and was happy to tip a little extra.

Jewels, as no one wants to actually answer your question, and give you any hard numbers, I think we gave the instructor $50 on that hour session. Again, the whole group was really excited about the session, and felt he had given us lot more than he had to, which made the whole session more successful and fun.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Mar 19, 2007, 8:23 AM
Post #43 of 136 (1055 views)
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     Re: [Scubadivemaster] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

I disagree, your note is exactly in line with my position.

AND you said it perfectly "I certainly did not expect that, and it was more service than the service for which I had paid. While I felt no obligation to pay for this additional service, I certainly wanted to. I was excited that I had learned a lot more than I thought I was going to, and was happy to tip a little extra. "

this scenario, you had a classy attendant


Scubadivemaster  (D License)

Mar 19, 2007, 8:39 AM
Post #44 of 136 (1053 views)
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     Re: [rehmwa] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

I said all that and didn't say I was agreeing with you? Damn it, all those years of schooling and still can't communicate worth a damn. Unsure

Like the lifeguard analogy, your use of the word "attendant" just rang true with me, highlighting the different concepts of the roles of those employees that the customers may have. Not trying to argue at all. Just the opposite.


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Mar 19, 2007, 8:48 AM
Post #45 of 136 (1049 views)
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     Re: [Scubadivemaster] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

I'm a dork - You said I "Highlighted the confusion"

me english is not so....elegant..... as you people be sayink

I believe it's my communication skills that are lacking - yours are just fine


(This post was edited by rehmwa on Mar 19, 2007, 8:50 AM)


Jewels  (Student)

Mar 19, 2007, 10:53 AM
Post #46 of 136 (1024 views)
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     Re: [rehmwa] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

LOL--I think you're BOTH communicating well. And thanks, too, Scubadivemaster, for an actual number! I can understand why a lot of people might not want to name a price but it's nice to know what others are doing. Smile


diablopilot  (D License)

Mar 19, 2007, 1:53 PM
Post #47 of 136 (1008 views)
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     Re: [Bowen] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

Quote:
unfortunately (from my experience) most skydivers looking to get “coaching “ from me while I am working do not tip a dime and I see this all day long with other instructors as well.

Why is it "unfortunate"? If you feel that way, don't coach. Period. Otherwise you are wrong for EXPECTING to be compensated for "helping out".


stormywinters

Mar 19, 2007, 4:59 PM
Post #48 of 136 (980 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

 Sounds like a lot of people need to learn better communication.


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Mar 19, 2007, 5:29 PM
Post #49 of 136 (973 views)
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     Re: [stormywinters] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Sounds like a lot of people need to learn better communication.

Really? JP is an official/registered trademark/do not copy IBA instructor just speaking his mind.


Bowen  (C 37322)

Mar 19, 2007, 5:53 PM
Post #50 of 136 (968 views)
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     Re: [diablopilot] Tipping Your Tunnel Instructor [In reply to]  

In reply to:
Quote:
unfortunately (from my experience) most skydivers looking to get “coaching “ from me while I am working do not tip a dime and I see this all day long with other instructors as well.

Why is it "unfortunate"? If you feel that way, don't coach. Period. Otherwise you are wrong for EXPECTING to be compensated for "helping out".


The reason I said that is because most of the time it is expected of me to coach. I cant tell you how many times I’ve seen people asked if they wanted to buy a coaching package and they say “isn’t the instructor in there with me? Then why pay extra.” For over a year and a half I offered free coaching on my days off to anyone that wanted to learn, I now charge a very small fee but for the longest time I didn’t. I didn’t charge because I love coaching and seeing people learn.


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