Forums: Skydiving: General Skydiving Discussions:
Drugs and DZs

 

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jvcvudu  (D 22842)

Mar 5, 2007, 8:52 PM
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Drugs and DZs Can't Post

What to do about knowing beyond a shadow of ANY doubt about DZs that claim the staff is "drug free". Dropzone home web pages that post the above as one of the selling points to an unknowing public to give them a false sense of safety...when certain individuals of particular staff are known drug abusers and the DZO looks the other way. Any of ya know of these DZs? Any comments?


BillyVance  (D 18895)

Mar 5, 2007, 9:08 PM
Post #2 of 109 (5409 views)
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Re: [jvcvudu] Drugs and DZs [In reply to] Can't Post

A friend of mine told me about seeing a tandem master at his DZ using some kind of drug. When the TM realized he was looking at him, he made an effort to hide what he was doing. I have not and will not refer anybody to that DZ for tandem or training jumps.


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Mar 5, 2007, 11:40 PM
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Re: [BillyVance] Drugs and DZs [In reply to] Can't Post

Man, that sucks.Unimpressed


Maxx  (D 9594)

Mar 6, 2007, 2:17 AM
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Re: [jvcvudu] Drugs and DZs [In reply to] Can't Post

Alcohol is a drug.
Cigarettes are drugs..
Even coffee (coffeine) is a drug...

So I guess no DZs are "drug free".. It all depends on which drugs, how much and when..

If he is doing ecstasy during the jump operation I would ban him, but if he smokes pot after the work is done and the customers are gone, I would say it's ok.. Sure, in neither cases the DZ is allowed to advertise with "drug free" DZ..

Just my .2c


dharma1976  (D 28634)

Mar 6, 2007, 3:53 AM
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Re: [jvcvudu] Drugs and DZs [In reply to] Can't Post

I would say the same...

if the owner caught a TM whacking rails of his bald tandem students heads on the plane I would defintely see an issue...

the difference between Drugs out there si huge, I have seen people more affected by a drinking habit than people who did heroin, it all depends on the person truthfully...

So to answer your question, I have known some awesome tandem masters who smoked a little chiba here and there, I have known some really bad ones who didnt do anything but have a few beers here and there...

Cheers

Dave


Peter_ru  (C License)

Mar 6, 2007, 4:08 AM
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Re: [Maxx] Drugs and DZs [In reply to] Can't Post

No, can't agree. Alcohol is alcohol and drugs are drugs. No excuses for smoking marijuana and etc should be made.

To my mind alcohol must be prohibited during jumping day and before jumps. Drugs (all types) must not be allowed at all! Mad Being illegal by the way.


jakee  (C License)

Mar 6, 2007, 4:22 AM
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Re: [Peter_ru] Drugs and DZs [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
No, can't agree. Alcohol is alcohol and drugs are drugs. No excuses for smoking marijuana and etc should be made.

To my mind alcohol must be prohibited during jumping day and before jumps. Drugs (all types) must not be allowed at all! Mad Being illegal by the way.

Well hell yeah during the jumping day no alcohol and no drugs of any kind should be allowed.

However, speaking hypothetically, what is preferable between a guy who gets falling over drunk every night or a guy who smokes a joint at night? Who's going to be more impaired the next morning?


jumpwally  (D License)

Mar 6, 2007, 5:37 AM
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Re: [jakee] Drugs and DZs [In reply to] Can't Post

Both are idiots who should not be jumping out of planes....


Maxx  (D 9594)

Mar 6, 2007, 6:24 AM
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Re: [Peter_ru] Drugs and DZs [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
No, can't agree. Alcohol is alcohol and drugs are drugs.

Alcohol IS A DRUG. Go and look it up the dictionary if you don't believe me. In fact its the most commonly used drug in the United States and is legal for adults over the age of 21.

I know more than 10 skydivers who have a serious drinking problem, but no skydiver who has a problem because of his consumption of marijuana or pot.

Quote:
Being illegal by the way.

Marijuana might be illegal in your state, but there are places where it's perfectly legal (and there are dropzones, too..).

Edit2Add: I think it's clear that ANY drug consumption (except coffee&ciggys) during OR before the jump activites is strictly forbidden, EVERYWHERE.. We are talking about post jumping behaviours..


(This post was edited by Maxx on Mar 6, 2007, 6:42 AM)


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007, 6:35 AM
Post #10 of 109 (5022 views)
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Re: [Maxx] Drugs and DZs [In reply to] Can't Post

Due to the legal culture here in the United States DZ's usually will look at a situation like this as what will cost them the least if something where to happen? If a Tandem Instructor has a double mal and the tandem results in a fatality and they draw blood and find high amounts of "illegal" drugs in the blood then the DZO is really on the hook when the lawsuits start flying. There was an incident about 10 years ago now when a TM had smoked some pot then went up on a jump and ended up killing both of them. Everyone lost out big on that since it cost a lot of money to defend the gear makers from an action that an instructor did.

Alcohol is an easily abused drug, but it does have the advantange of being one of the more visable signs of imparement also. There are lots of functional drunks out there and it is an issue.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Mar 6, 2007, 6:39 AM
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Re: [jvcvudu] Drugs and DZs [In reply to] Can't Post

Hungarian rules: you can not be under the effect or after effect of any drug or alcohol if you want to jump. And drug includes medicine too.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Mar 6, 2007, 7:16 AM
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Re: [jvcvudu] Drugs and DZs [In reply to] Can't Post

You might ask the DZO directly. I heard this accusation at a DZ last year, and approached the DZO. He informed me that he tests for illegals (and showed me a shelf full of test packages) consistently with no notice.
Yet a couple people at the DZ insisted that they knew better.
If you truly know beyond a shadow of *any* doubt, I'd say you have a responsibility to the students and community members to say something, don't you think? I for one, don't want to be on a multi-person jump with someone that's been using.


howardwhite  (C 3896)

Mar 6, 2007, 7:59 AM
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Re: [jvcvudu] Drugs and DZs [In reply to] Can't Post

Apart from the merits of merits of the issue, already well discussed here, would you personally regard staff drug testing as a "selling point?' If you compared two similar DZs, would you prefer the "drug-free" one?

More importantly, do you think potential customers react positively to such a claim?

HW


Andy9o8  (D License)

Mar 6, 2007, 8:37 AM
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Re: [howardwhite] Drugs and DZs [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Apart from the merits of merits of the issue, already well discussed here, would you personally regard staff drug testing as a "selling point?' If you compared two similar DZs, would you prefer the "drug-free" one?

More importantly, do you think potential customers react positively to such a claim?

HW

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. It's like advertising a potential husband by saying "certified non-wife beater". Damning with faint praise.


OnYourBack  (D 25190)

Mar 6, 2007, 8:54 AM
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Re: [jvcvudu] Drugs and DZs [In reply to] Can't Post

It blows me away when people seemed surprised that there are (insert bad behaviour here) at their dz. The dropzone isn't some magical wonderland where everything is perfect. It is full of, for the most part, regular people. I'm not dismissing any sort of improper or illegal activities but you should know that there are intoxicated people around you most of the time. On the highway, at work, in church and even at your dz. Your best defense is to stay aware and make people earn your trust.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Mar 6, 2007, 8:56 AM
Post #16 of 109 (4792 views)
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Re: [jvcvudu] Drugs and DZs [In reply to] Can't Post

I have yet to be at a DZ where there was no drug usage at all.

>Dropzone home web pages that post the above as one of the selling
>points to an unknowing public to give them a false sense of safety . . .

The "false sense of safety" doesn't have much to do with drug usage IMO. The number of injuries/fatalities due to drug usage is fairly low.


DougH  (D License)

Mar 6, 2007, 9:02 AM
Post #17 of 109 (4785 views)
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Re: [jvcvudu] Drugs and DZs [In reply to] Can't Post

Beer or pot it is none of my business. If your doing it off working hours, and the residuals are gone and you are 100% the next morning then I don't see how it is my business.

I bet more jumpers get on the first load still affected from the bonfire beers the night before then we care to admit.


billstap  (B License)

Mar 6, 2007, 9:21 AM
Post #18 of 109 (4766 views)
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Re: [jvcvudu] Drugs and DZs [In reply to] Can't Post

in order to understand the nature of your question i feel you need to understand the history, alcohol is legal because the goverment could not control the populace(alcohol rebellion), and marijuana is illegal because at first it was a way to control the mexican slaves we were using at that time history (black slaves were not the popular choice at this time, and we controlled them by stripping them of all knowledge, both education and family, but the mexicans we could not do this becasue they had such a large sense of family, but they drank and smoked reefer, now we know that we could not penalize them for alcohol but we could sure do it for pot), after this discovery the governor of texas who first started this trend to control his slaves he realized the economical possibilities of illegalizing marijuana, he wrote letters to all governors at that time and progressively marijuana becasme illegal to control a particualar part of our populace and for the greedy politicians to get some more money without taxation, i could go on for hours about this i have written many papers on it to inform the ignorant

now as far as a correlation to the DZ, as far as i know there is no consumption of alcohol by anyone, skydiver or not, until the last load of the day goes up, and i believe that should be strictly enforced, and as far as after hours go, the alcoholic stays up all night causing ruckus, doing stupid things, coming up with bad ideas, while the pot head is sitting infront of the fire, 'chilin', and usually goes to bed much earlier then everyone else and wakes up without a splitting head ache, an overwhelming feeling of nausea, head to toe body ache, etc. everyone today has there own vice, who am i and who are you to tell someone what they can and cant do, and before you point the finger at someone for doing something illegal of which you have no idea the origination of the law, i would just sit down, relax and worry about self, you cant control what other people do but you sure can control what you do, and you should

not tryin to cause any bad feelings here, just trying to inform

"the people should not fear the power of the governement, the government should fear the power of the populace"


airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 6, 2007, 9:33 AM
Post #19 of 109 (4753 views)
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Re: [billvon] Drugs and DZs [In reply to] Can't Post

The "false sense of safety" doesn't have much to do with drug usage IMO. The number of injuries/fatalities due to drug usage is fairly low.

In reply to:

I would agree, though hard data would be hard to obtain.

It's the lawsuit thing that makes the testing desirable.


hexadecimal

Mar 6, 2007, 9:44 AM
Post #20 of 109 (4731 views)
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Re: [jvcvudu] Drugs and DZs [In reply to] Can't Post

I only shoot up after I'm safely under canopy with toggles in hand.


OnYourBack  (D 25190)

Mar 6, 2007, 9:45 AM
Post #21 of 109 (4732 views)
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Re: [jvcvudu] Drugs and DZs [In reply to] Can't Post

This thread made me curious and I went surfing for a bit more about workplace substance abuse:


Over 35 million Americans are addicted to prescription and nonprescription medication.

74% of all illegal drug users are employed either full or part time.

An average 10% of all full-time employees abuse alcohol and other drugs on the job (“Drugs in the Workplace: Research & Evaluation Data, National Institute on Drug Abuse Research Monograph).

64% of workplace substance abuse is alcohol related (Comprehensive Textbook of Substance Abuse).

20% of all employees aged 18-25 use drugs on the job (“Research on Drugs and the Workplace,” NIDA Capsules).

64% of all accidents on the job are directly or indirectly related to substance abuse in the workplace (Texas Business Today).

1 in 5 or 6 employees is under the influence of alcohol in the workplace.

Drug and/or alcohol abusers are 35% less productive than unimpaired workers (“Drug Abuse Attacks the Workplace,” The Electrical Distributor).


airtwardo  (D License)

Mar 6, 2007, 9:58 AM
Post #22 of 109 (4710 views)
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Re: [OnYourBack] Drugs and DZs [In reply to] Can't Post

1 in 5 or 6 employees is under the influence of alcohol in the workplace.

In reply to:

Even higher than that...if ya work in a bar! Blush


jumpnrandy  (D 21416)

Mar 6, 2007, 10:03 AM
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Re: [billstap] Drugs and DZs [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
the alcoholic stays up all night causing ruckus, doing stupid things, coming up with bad ideas, while the pot head is sitting infront of the fire, 'chilin', and usually goes to bed much earlier then everyone else and wakes up without a splitting head ache, an overwhelming feeling of nausea, head to toe body ache, etc.

You CAN'T really believe that, Do you?
You have got to be shittin me!


jumpnrandy  (D 21416)

Mar 6, 2007, 10:18 AM
Post #24 of 109 (4684 views)
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Re: [Maxx] Drugs and DZs [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Edit2Add: I think it's clear that ANY drug consumption (except coffee&ciggys) during OR before the jump activites is strictly forbidden, EVERYWHERE..

Not true. While a particular DZ may have an operating procedure or policy to the activity you speak of with such conviction, there is no law that prevents one from consuming a beer and jumping from a plane. The FAR’s make clear reference to jumping while “under the influence”, however the FAA does not define “under the influence” for skydivers.


billstap  (B License)

Mar 6, 2007, 10:32 AM
Post #25 of 109 (4657 views)
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Re: [jumpnrandy] Drugs and DZs [In reply to] Can't Post

well unless you are irish, social drinker, or not an abuser-----> YES, hahaha

blue skies!!!
"I jump sober, do you?"

"do what you do and leave everyone else the hell alone"


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