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aguila  (B 1009)

Feb 9, 2007, 8:36 AM
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broken lines picture Can't Post

This picture could help some people when checking up their canopies after opening


(This post was edited by aguila on Feb 9, 2007, 8:37 AM)
Attachments: brokenlines.jpg (22.8 KB)


DougH  (D License)

Feb 9, 2007, 9:22 AM
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Re: [aguila] broken lines picture [In reply to] Can't Post

Is this photo from your friend who injured himself?


aguila  (B 1009)

Feb 9, 2007, 9:25 AM
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Re: [DougH] broken lines picture [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes. It is.


kris2extreme  (C License)

Feb 9, 2007, 10:24 AM
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Re: [aguila] broken lines picture [In reply to] Can't Post

the first S in the 3 S's is SQUARE.

It is unfortunate to see someone get hurt, but learn from his mistakes and follow your procedures each and every time. Make it a second nature to be able to look up and see in an instant whether the canopy is good. If it isn't, then get rid of it and get under your reserve.


diablopilot  (D License)

Feb 9, 2007, 12:30 PM
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Re: [aguila] broken lines picture [In reply to] Can't Post

And how did your friend get a photograph of the damaged canopy, yet not notice it soon enough to chop it?

You trolling again?


aguila  (B 1009)

Feb 9, 2007, 12:51 PM
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Re: [diablopilot] broken lines picture [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
And how did your friend get a photograph of the damaged canopy, yet not notice it soon enough to chop it?reply]

I assume he got distracted and did not paid attention to his canopy


DougH  (D License)

Feb 9, 2007, 12:58 PM
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Re: [aguila] broken lines picture [In reply to] Can't Post

Glad to see that he is flying a camera, when he can't even handle a simple controllability check.

You mentioned he had 40 jumps at the time???

Brilliant!!!! Laugh


Orange1  (B 2638)

Feb 9, 2007, 12:59 PM
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Re: [aguila] broken lines picture [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
And how did your friend get a photograph of the damaged canopy, yet not notice it soon enough to chop it?reply]

I assume he got distracted and did not paid attention to his canopy

This guy had 40 jumps you said, but flies with a camera? Maybe this is one of the reasons why low jump numbers are advised not to use one Crazy or?

edited to add: snap to doug's post at same time Tongue


(This post was edited by Orange1 on Feb 9, 2007, 12:59 PM)


aguila  (B 1009)

Feb 9, 2007, 1:00 PM
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Re: [DougH] broken lines picture [In reply to] Can't Post

He hopes people will benefit from his experience. That is why I posted the picture


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Feb 9, 2007, 1:07 PM
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Re: [aguila] broken lines picture [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for posting that. It looks pretty ugly, and would be helpful as yet another malfunction photo.

I hope your friend realizes that he's traded quite a bit of his luck for some experience.

Wendy W.


Scrumpot  (D License)

Feb 9, 2007, 2:15 PM
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Re: [wmw999] broken lines picture [In reply to] Can't Post

Pretty much good rule of thumb ....Any A (nose) lines breakage = chop! Like this, it'll slow you down, and get you "thinking" - and that is sometimes the real danger to such "low speed" mals in the first place. They can lull you in. I think this is a good picture to post - wanting to bash the jumper involved or not. How many of you would have immediately chopped something like this?

I think this is a great shot of something we don't all just immediately ever think about. Sure - ball of shit ...it's GONE! Spinning line-over, bag-lock, etc. But seriously folks - put the OP and the bashing the shutterbug aside just for a minute. Any chance you think you might hang on to this, mess with it looking up for a bit - to the point that by the time you started thinking about handles, looked down and maybe just found "SHIT - TOO LOW NOW TO CHOP"?

Any chance you think THAT is what may have happened to this jumper in this case? Not that it is right, or even right to be jumping camera at only 40 jumps either - I'll agree. But let's take a quick honest look at the value of the posting of this picture and think to ourselves - how easy too would it be for YOU to get "sucked in" by this one?

I commend on at least face value the intents anyway, and the courage, knowing yes - HE HAD MADE A MISTAKE - of the injured jumper from this mistake, now being willing to post the picture. Let's not lose the potential lesson to be learned in so quickly dismissing it so out of hand by one-liner "bashing" either.

Wow... How's that? Did I actually just say all that? Shocked Angelic

Blues everyone!
-Grant


Premier wmw999  (D 6296)

Feb 9, 2007, 2:28 PM
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Re: [Scrumpot] broken lines picture [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Wow... How's that? Did I actually just say all that?
Good stuff. Particularly the part about low speed mals.
That picture isn't necessarily for the jumper with 5000 jumps. But it might just help the one who isn't quite sure if that's a pilot chute deforming his rig or something else.

Wendy W.


sagan  (D 29467)

Feb 9, 2007, 2:52 PM
Post #13 of 36 (2151 views)
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Re: [Scrumpot] broken lines picture [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
How many of you would have immediately chopped something like this?

I'm a Low # jumper and until someone said nose lines broken I didn't see it. I thought to myself the whole front looks awfully wobbly and I hope if I was sitting under that thing the mushy and deformed look would tell me it's time to cut. But, until you said what it was I was still looking at the pic thinking somethings not right but I'm not sure what it is. Wonder how long I would have done that under canopy in a real situation -- hopefully just 5-10 seconds before making a decision (to cut).

So stupid follow-up question, did this jumper ever feel that the canopy wasn't really flying like it was supposed to or is this kind of mal really subtle and you wouldn't even feel the difference in control, etc?


Lastchance  (B 28828)

Feb 9, 2007, 4:52 PM
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Re: [aguila] broken lines picture [In reply to] Can't Post

Look close at that picture. You can see the top of his helmet in the shot and the shadow of his hemet on his slider. That picture was taken with a hand held flash camera. Did he ever even look up at his canopy or was he just interested in getting some shots? I'm not bashing the guy, I've taken pics like that myself but only after inspecting my canopy and doing a controlability check.


aguila  (B 1009)

Feb 9, 2007, 6:09 PM
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Re: [wmw999] broken lines picture [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Thanks for posting that. It looks pretty ugly, and would be helpful as yet another malfunction photo.

I hope your friend realizes that he's traded quite a bit of his luck for some experience.

Wendy W.

You are welcome Wendy! I am sure my friend will always remember to check his canopy after opening.

If I get another malfunction picture I will share it.

Blue Skies!


shermanator  (B License)

Feb 9, 2007, 6:21 PM
Post #16 of 36 (2074 views)
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Re: [aguila] broken lines picture [In reply to] Can't Post

excuse my ignorance of matters at which I should know.. but, with the 2 inside A lines breaking, what is the flight charactoristics of the canopy at that time. completely unstable? moderately stable?

I can't say for sure what i would do in that situation, i guess that is because i don't know how it would be flying. i've heard of people landing canopies with both sides end cells being blown out.


porpoishead  (B 30018)

Feb 9, 2007, 8:56 PM
Post #17 of 36 (2036 views)
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Re: [shermanator] broken lines picture [In reply to] Can't Post

looks like 2-a's 2-b's =4 lines out= chop.

the thing is not eeeven square.

how many broken lines do you consider acceptable??

good time to be takin pictures, I recon!!!!!


Orange1  (B 2638)

Feb 9, 2007, 11:25 PM
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Re: [sagan] broken lines picture [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
How many of you would have immediately chopped something like this?

I'm a Low # jumper and until someone said nose lines broken I didn't see it. I thought to myself the whole front looks awfully wobbly and I hope if I was sitting under that thing the mushy and deformed look would tell me it's time to cut. But, until you said what it was I was still looking at the pic thinking somethings not right but I'm not sure what it is. Wonder how long I would have done that under canopy in a real situation -- hopefully just 5-10 seconds before making a decision (to cut).

So stupid follow-up question, did this jumper ever feel that the canopy wasn't really flying like it was supposed to or is this kind of mal really subtle and you wouldn't even feel the difference in control, etc?

Which leads again to the question of: did the jumper do a control check on the canopy before commencing to fly it down? imo it's not always necessary to know exactly what is wrong, but it is necessary to know if the canopy is going to respond to your control inputs the way you want it to. I am a low number jumper too and even though everything has always looked perfect on all but one jumps (PC over the nose) I have always done a control check (which btw also told me my PC over the nose was landable, which it was).


speedy

Feb 10, 2007, 12:25 AM
Post #19 of 36 (2003 views)
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Re: [Scrumpot] broken lines picture [In reply to] Can't Post

I had a nitron 88 with 2 center A line's broken. Because the lines were not cascaded the B lines were intact. I chopped with out doing any further control checks.

A year later another jumper had the same problem and decided to do some further control checks. During these, more lines started to break. Result was that he chopped at a lower altitude than my chop.
In my opinion lines should not break, once they are broken you have a broken canopy. Trust your rigger and use the reserve.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Feb 10, 2007, 3:29 AM
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Re: broken lines picture [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the pic, Gonzalo. Good stuff in the interest of helping others. I will certainly use it in my FJC.

Please get your friend to go back to his instructors and get a thorough review and practice on EPs. I don't know how badly he got hurt of if he plans to continue jumping.

Everyone:
When these low-speed mals are going on, I hope you are watching your altimeter and using your eyes for altitude awareness as you analyse the problem. There's no excuse for analysing and then all-of-a-sudden finding yourself too low to cut it away. Decision altitude is not just for newbies.


(This post was edited by popsjumper on Feb 10, 2007, 3:31 AM)


piisfish

Feb 10, 2007, 5:03 AM
Post #21 of 36 (1973 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] broken lines picture [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Thanks for the pic, Gonzalo. Good stuff in the interest of helping others. I will certainly use it in my FJC.

Please get your friend to go back to his instructors and get a thorough review and practice on EPs. I don't know how badly he got hurt of if he plans to continue jumping..
this one certainly helps. Apparently as posted in another thread he got quite badly hurt and is out of the sport for a year or so.

A controllability check and a better decision could have prevented this. But we can all do mistakes. Unfortunately.


stratostar  (Student)

Feb 10, 2007, 5:21 AM
Post #22 of 36 (1966 views)
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Re: [Lastchance] broken lines picture [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Look close at that picture. You can see the top of his helmet in the shot and the shadow of his hemet on his slider. That picture was taken with a hand held flash camera.

Yea can't you guys spot a fake when you see it. This is fake as hell, I bet they filmed it in the same hanger as the moon landing....Sly


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Feb 10, 2007, 9:34 AM
Post #23 of 36 (1903 views)
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Re: [Scrumpot] broken lines picture [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Pretty much good rule of thumb ....Any A (nose) lines breakage = chop!
I'll agree with that. I've landed and F-111 7-cell with a broken A-line, standup in the peas. No sweat. A few years later, broken A-line on a 5-cell. Flew straight, no problem, kept it. At 100 feet, I knew I had made the wrong choice. High rate of sink, very poor response to flare, and an early stall. I hit very hard with a very good PLF (as an old round jumper, I'll brag to say I'm good at those) and still sprained an ankle badly and cracked a leg bone. Unsure Not more than a month on crutches in a cast.UnsureUnsure

So now, if it's broken, I chop. I know jumpers land broken lines sometimes, and I got away with it once. I just choose not to anymore.

Sidenote, Vskydiver was pregnant with our 2nd daughter when I got hurt. I was in the delivery room with my crutches for this one.Laugh Our OB, a pilot, BTW, thought it was funny as hell.Tongue


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Feb 10, 2007, 9:37 AM
Post #24 of 36 (1897 views)
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Re: [sagan] broken lines picture [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm a Low # jumper and until someone said nose lines broken I didn't see it.
No worries. Smile Part of my canopy check is to look behind me for broken lines trailing off my canopy and/or the tops of my risers.


Premier DSE  (D 29060)

Feb 10, 2007, 9:41 AM
Post #25 of 36 (1893 views)
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Re: [JohnMitchell] broken lines picture [In reply to] Can't Post

I did the same as you, John...two broken lines after a nasty opening (learning to sit and not paying attention to alti, opened at high speed, duh!) and had 2 broken lines. Decided to land it after checking for control. One of the instructors and my rigger both looked at the main and proceeded to chew my ass out, saying I should have chopped. Landed fine...but I'm not going to go for a second chance, most likely.


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