Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Affordable training

 

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377  (F 666)

Feb 1, 2007, 2:29 PM
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When I learned to jump in 1968 it cost $50 and included one SL jump. Bill Dause (Lodi CA) is still offering a SL FJT course for $500 including ten jumps. Are there other low priced training courses out there? Seems like a good idea to offer a way for non affluent people to get into the sport. AFF is very expensive for some folks. In 1968, as a poor college student, I could barely afford the $50. Hats off to Bill and others who keep the door open for less than affluent new jumpers. AFF may be a more effective way to train, but SL isn't unsafe. Keep skydiving affordable. With declining numbers in the sport we need all the new jumpers we can get.


(This post was edited by 377 on Feb 1, 2007, 2:30 PM)


AllisonH  (D 29505)

Feb 1, 2007, 2:43 PM
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Skydive K-State in Wamego, Kansas is quite affordable. I think static line jumps there are $39 each, and gear rental is about $25 per semester.


DrewEckhardt  (D 28461)

Feb 1, 2007, 3:27 PM
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In reply to:
When I learned to jump in 1968 it cost $50 and included one SL jump. Bill Dause (Lodi CA) is still offering a SL FJT course for $500 including ten jumps. Are there other low priced training courses out there? Seems like a good idea to offer a way for non affluent people to get into the sport. AFF is very expensive for some folks. In 1968, as a poor college student, I could barely afford the $50. Hats off to Bill and others who keep the door open for less than affluent new jumpers. AFF may be a more effective way to train, but SL isn't unsafe. Keep skydiving affordable. With declining numbers in the sport we need all the new jumpers we can get.

Kapowsin has a $165 first jump course which is under $30 in 1968 dollars with subsequent student jumps at $65 (under $12). We licensed skydivers aren't paying $4 in 1968 dollars for our 15 minute rides to 13,500 feet.

These are the good old days.


wildfan75  (D 29536)

Feb 1, 2007, 5:08 PM
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Skydive Wissota--Chippewa Falls, WI

S/L class + 5 jumps=$240 (Less if you do a tandem in the same year (incentive to continue) or print off the coupon on the website)
20 Jump Package=$500 (Includes instruction, "coaching", gear, everything you need)

So that would be max $740 to get your class A license if you do it in 25 jumps. And we'll even teach you to pack without charging you $50 for a packing course.

We're a non-profit dz and instructors pay their own slots based on the fact that you'll eventually pay if forward and you help with packing student rigs on FJC days, take out the trash, vaccuum the clubhouse, etc.

I think I had 3 four ways before I got my class A (and yes, we turned points) and learned from literally the best! I love Wissota!!! And can't wait until I can take a student on their first two or four way!!!


377  (F 666)

Feb 1, 2007, 5:25 PM
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Wissota definitely rocks! A $400 20 jump pkg, gear and coaching included is a fantastic bargain. So is the SL first jump class with 5 jumps for $240. This selfless non commercial spirit was common in the 60s jumping scene. Glad to see it still survives somewhere.


jigneshsoni  (Student)

Feb 1, 2007, 6:08 PM
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I did my first Tandem jump in 1999. Spent around 240$ including video.


Did the rest of my 15 jumps in 2005.

Did 2nd Tandem for around 185$.

Did AFP Program and never completed it due to many reasons, major reason being that I was repeating levels and could not handle the stress that was coming spending so much money.

During the AFP program I did a total of 16 jumps. First jump cose was around 285$ and the rest of them were average around 170$.

Spending so of money and not progressing was putting enormous stress on me and my performance. FINALLY GAVE UP!!!!!!

Inspite of all this, I am starting it all over again. I have missed this so bad and have wanted this so bad. But I am very scared to history repeating. I want to be absolutely make sure this time, that I enjoy this and feel the worth of each jump. After a lot of thinking, have come to conclusion, Static Line/IAD is the way to go. I wish I had known about this when I started jumping.


(This post was edited by jigneshsoni on Feb 1, 2007, 6:09 PM)


Ironmanjay  (C 37414)

Feb 1, 2007, 7:00 PM
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WOW Skydive Wissota--Chippewa Falls, WI
That sounds like a really kool Dz.
I did Bill Dause S/L program. He is a good person all the way around. Especially for a starving college student like myself.
15$ a jump if you got your own gear!!!Thats the best


wildfan75  (D 29536)

Feb 1, 2007, 7:20 PM
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Same at Wissota...if you have your own gear, then you just pay the experienced jump prices. $14 for 10,000 (we're a 182 dz), then give or take $1 for every 1000'.


Singe

Feb 5, 2007, 4:16 PM
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What is the standard range for complete AFF training (assuming that one were to pass all levels on the first try)?

At Skydive Elsinore, where I'm contemplating getting my training, the whole package is about 2,800 dollars (once again assuming you pass everything your first try). Pretty steep on a student budget =/


wildfan75  (D 29536)

Feb 5, 2007, 5:05 PM
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We don't normally do AFF at Wissota but I think Baldwin's AFF program is about $1200. Double check to see what that $2800 includes?

For that cost, you could go up to Skydive Chicago and do their AFP program. $1900, jumps 1-15 plus 1 year USPA membership. I've heard good things about that program. They have a bunk house too, so lodging would be minimal.

Editted to add: I just check Elsinore's website. The $2800 package is to get you to your class A license. For an AFF program to class A, from what I've heard, not such a bad deal. The thing that makes me happy I jump where I do is that the package is 13 solos, so if you want to progress with RW work in that time, you'll have to pay extra for coaching. I never had to pay for coaching, not even slots. But then again, I'm sure you won't be expected to help with packing student rigs, help keep the clubhouse or facilities clean, scrub toilets, etc.


(This post was edited by wildfan75 on Feb 5, 2007, 5:28 PM)


ryanocerous  (A 50665)

Feb 24, 2007, 2:43 PM
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I did an AFF level 1 before doing a static line training program, and the static line method seemed much easier on me. Most people hold an opposite opinion, but I suppose everyone is different and the learning curve might be a little steeper, but I think you see the results much faster and everything comes together piece by piece.
At Lodi it cost me under $1000 for my A license, it seems like most other places are upwards of $2500. It seems to me that the cost of these training programs drives away quite a few potential jumpers.


L.O.  (D 16935)

Feb 25, 2007, 4:33 PM
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In reply to:
It seems to me that the cost of these training programs drives away quite a few potential jumpers.


Ya think?


(This post was edited by L.O. on Feb 25, 2007, 4:33 PM)


ryanocerous  (A 50665)

Feb 25, 2007, 6:17 PM
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In reply to:

Ya think?

Hahah yes, obviously so, but i don't understand why so many dropzones generally charge the same high rates. If you train twice the students at half the price you're still making the same amount of money and keeping a larger base of customers. That's what i was really getting at.


Fast  (D 28237)

Feb 26, 2007, 9:49 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:

Ya think?

Hahah yes, obviously so, but i don't understand why so many dropzones generally charge the same high rates. If you train twice the students at half the price you're still making the same amount of money and keeping a larger base of customers. That's what i was really getting at.

I think a lot of the reasoning that happens is because people don't feel that they will see those kinds of returns. I think it would be hard to cut the price in half and expect to see double your students.


kkeenan  (D 22164)

Feb 26, 2007, 10:33 AM
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In reply to:
If you train twice the students at half the price you're still making the same amount of money and keeping a larger base of customers. ...

That would seem the case at first. But, the number of people who continue to jump drops off steeply after training. So, the "base of customers" really doesn't materialize as you think it might. When you add to that the fact that the DZ makes far more $ from training students than they do from having experienced jumpers, that makes it more lucrative to keep the training prices up.

I'm glad to know that there are still DZs out there who have reasonably-priced training and where people still give of their own time to support the sport (even with toilet cleaning). Wink

Kevin


L.O.  (D 16935)

Feb 26, 2007, 11:24 AM
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In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:

Ya think?

Hahah yes, obviously so, but i don't understand why so many dropzones generally charge the same high rates. If you train twice the students at half the price you're still making the same amount of money and keeping a larger base of customers. That's what i was really getting at.

I think a lot of the reasoning that happens is because people don't feel that they will see those kinds of returns. I think it would be hard to cut the price in half and expect to see double your students.

I have to agree with Derek. Sorta. If you half the price, I don't think you'll get much more in the way of students. On the other hand, I have to say that if it had cost me 100 bucks per jump for my first 7/8 jumps, I wouldn't be a skydiver now. Alot of people I now wouldn't. Commercialism is the way of the world, unfortunately. There are only so many souls among us who give freely of their time and money without wanting anything more then friendship and respect in return.

Bob Stumm, is one of those people. He keeps my DZ open operating at a lose. Two 25,000 engines this year and the jumps to 10, still only cost 14. Do the math.

HIGHJACK. I am using this thread to give praise to a man I love and respect. The kind of person we could use a lot more of.

Thanks for a place we can do this. DZ.COM


L.O.  (D 16935)

Feb 26, 2007, 3:35 PM
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    Anyone who knows BOB could send this to him. Maybe I'll get a free jump for talking so nice about the guy in public.Wink

I'm in a "nice guy" mood today.


chachi  (B 3406)

Feb 26, 2007, 5:23 PM
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first question is how can you give props to someone that runs a business at a loss. its silly and if he continues to do so he will close the doors one day.

another thought. why do we want cheap instruction? it cheapens the sport. we should charge reasonable amounts to provide excellent instruction, top quality student gear, insurance and facilities. skydiving is an expensive sport to maintain. why get people into it for cheap?


wildfan75  (D 29536)

Feb 26, 2007, 6:02 PM
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Wow...we have someone who is so self-less as to "invest" into this sport by diggin into their own pockets to keep a skydiving club (I say club because Wissota is not a commercial dz, and I guess to say dz is to imply someone's living off the profit) running with cheap jump ticket prices so that jumpers like me could start in the first place and continue to grow, and we tell them, "You stupid f&*k. Close the doors". I think a simple thank you would probably do.

Bob and Mary have been doing what they do best for almost 20 years, and they do it for the love of the sport, the future of the sport. And they pass along not only their knowledge, but that same passion that they have had for 33 years/11,000+ jumps and 26/13,000+ years/jumps respectively. Bob doesn't depend on skydiving to make a living. He depends on his full time M-F job to pay to keep our planes running, just like every single one of us at Wissota depends on our full time job to pay for our skydiving. We do it for the love of the sport, because it is just that, a sport.

I personally take huge offense to your post. You just called me cheap. You just said that I cheapened the sport. Because if it wouldn't have been for Wissota, there is no way that I would have could have gotten off student status or maybe even started (I could have never afforded AFF more less to pay a coach to advance when off student status). I'm blown away that someone would think that I have no business in this sport. It kills me that this additude is out there. I think the worst thing I ever did was sign up for this website, because, knowing that Wissota is not the norm but the exception, makes me sad for this sport I really love. I wish it was like Wissota everywhere. And if Bob would have announced an increase in jump tickets to cover his loss at our annual meeting on Saturday, I guarentee you no one would have said boo about it.

I'm just a newbie but I guess I'd like to see more jumpers in our sport that are willing to step up to pack FJC student's rigs than ones that packed once to get their A and now don't know how to pack.

I'm sure everyone thinks that I'm bullshit, and every other skydiver that ever posts from Wissota is full of shit when we talk about getting our class A licenses for $740 (2006) with multiple four ways and "coaching" from World Teamers, etc. But I dare anyone to come make a weekend trip to Skydive Wissota (spring, summer, fall or WINTER), spend the weekend skydiving with us and hanging out with us, and then you can form an oppinion. And if anyone would like to tell me then that I cheapen the sport, by all means...you'll be able to say it to my face.

Sorry for getting so deep and defensive. I just too that post way to personal...I think it's a female thing. Goes along with having boobies!Laugh


DocJames  (B 49512)

Feb 26, 2007, 6:27 PM
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In reply to:
In reply to:

Ya think?

Hahah yes, obviously so, but i don't understand why so many dropzones generally charge the same high rates. If you train twice the students at half the price you're still making the same amount of money and keeping a larger base of customers. That's what i was really getting at.

Cutting cost by 50% rarely increases business by 50%. Dropzones are businesses not charities. Now whether or not a DZ is operating at marginal cost cannot be determined unless we could see the financial statements and marketing results. For any given dropzone lowering its prices might increase or decrease its revenues. Its up to the financial manager to discover that magic number. With that said I don't know how many DZ owners/managers have the financial knowledge to determine such numbers.


L.O.  (D 16935)

Feb 27, 2007, 7:37 AM
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In reply to:
first question is how can you give props to someone that runs a business at a loss. its silly and if he continues to do so he will close the doors one day..

He has another biz that keeps the cash flow at an acceptable rate. Been at it for 30yrs no sign of closure yet.



[in replyto) another thought. why do we want cheap instruction? it cheapens the sport. we should charge reasonable amounts to provide excellent instruction, top quality student gear, insurance and facilities. skydiving is an expensive sport to maintain. why get people into it for cheap?.

People who are astronomically good skydivers and wish to help others for free. Thats bad? Only an idiot would want to pay for what he can get for free. Maybe you have to much money and you want to get rid of it. I will PM you my address. Mail me as much as you need to loss.

Skydive Wissota has some of the best gear you can buy. We just got two new Vortex transition rigs with a 185 EXE and a 170 EXE we also picked up a 150 EXE for the little folks. all new all ready for the newbe. all at no charge. Most of our regular skydivers are top notch instructors world team members 4-way team people. We pay our own slots.

We give what we have, thats what we do here. Wissota has evolved to a level beyond money. We do almost everything because we want to share what we have. As a good friend of mine once said "spread the love".


(This post was edited by L.O. on Feb 27, 2007, 8:30 AM)


kkeenan  (D 22164)

Feb 27, 2007, 8:36 AM
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Re: [chachi] Affordable training [In reply to] Can't Post

One reason that newcomers to this sport (and this site) are encouraged to listen more and offer opinions less is to prevent statements like yours.

Certainly, everyone is entitled to an opinion, even the newest jumpers. To use values derived from other walks of life to evaluate things in the world of skydiving is not always valid.

I would never attack you personally. Your statement, however, reeks of ignorance and insensitivity for the people involved. Please try to absorb some of the culture of this group before posting ill-informed opinions.

Kevin Keenan


chachi  (B 3406)

Feb 27, 2007, 12:30 PM
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i think you need to breathe, this is of course just the internet.

my comments were based on a business angle. that is all. clubs have different parameters.

as for calling you cheap, i did nothing of the sort. i just think that while some people feel that training and access should be cheaper across the board i disagree. i think instructors should be paid their worth. i think student gear should be top quality, not antiquated. this "typically" comes at a premium and is never attainable by being the cheapest.

i do not personally know all the situations of your dropzone, just made a couple of comments.


chachi  (B 3406)

Feb 27, 2007, 12:39 PM
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you should read profiles a little more if you are going to "put me in my newbie place."

stop taking things posted on the internet so serious. my comments talk about the general cost of training and do not in any way take shots at your dz.

i over all think training should not be "cheap" as this sport is about as serious as life and death can get and the continuation of the sport is not "cheap" in any way after. reducing the involvement of this sport to the lowest possible cost is not a benefit for the sport as a whole and while it can be a good benefit to the odd club and its members it is not the bench mark that we want to strive for.


kkeenan  (D 22164)

Feb 27, 2007, 1:38 PM
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In reply to:
you should read profiles a little more if you are going to "put me in my newbie place."

Your profile contains the following:

Number of Jumps: 3

How would you interpret that if you were reading it ?

And, yes, I did read the rest of the profile. I'm sorry I overreacted, even though the DZ discussed is not my DZ. I agree with you that the training should not be "cheap" at the expense of quality.

Kevin


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