Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf????

 

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

Grape

Jan 28, 2007, 5:44 AM
Post #1 of 34 (3207 views)
Shortcut
110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? Can't Post

so yea i dont weigh much and my home dropzone's smallest gear for me to rent is still HUGE on me. the rig littlerally starts to fall off in the airplane. the risers will fall to my elbows even if i have the chest strap tight as hell. i've had quite a bit of experience with landing backwards and getting no penetration. i can be the first one out of the plane and i'm still the last one to land. (it really sux when there's a race, i always owe beer god damn it). so i know i need to get my own shit, i'm working on it, in the mean time what am i suposed to do? is it safe for me to jump this way? the canopy doesnt fly propperly with my skinny ass under it but i dont know what the other options are. any suggestions?


jimmytavino  (A 3914)

Jan 28, 2007, 5:57 AM
Post #2 of 34 (3166 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Grape] 110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? [In reply to] Can't Post

hmmm seems strange that the dz's smallest student main is 230 sq. feet...Unsure
most places anticipate smaller sized students, and they should at least have a harness/container system suited to the more petite sized jumper...(and you've used such gear 35 !!! times!!!!)
well good for you... you are a trouper!!

man.. the entire rig likely weighs over one quarter of your own body weight...

any chance that one of your instructors might have a smaller sized rig, that you could borrow, rent, lease??/ it needs an AAd...of course, and not too small of a main and reserve..... but in this day and age, you shouldn't be using a rig which, "falls off your shoulders" in the plane....
good luck.

jmy
a 3914
d 12122


KindredSpirit  (Student)

Jan 28, 2007, 6:02 AM
Post #3 of 34 (3161 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Grape] 110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? [In reply to] Can't Post

Eat more.





Tongue


stratostar  (Student)

Jan 28, 2007, 6:07 AM
Post #4 of 34 (3155 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Grape] 110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
is it safe for me to jump this way?

Yes and No.

Yes as far as jumping a large canopy, even if you only go backwards, as long as your good at flying a canopy backwards. (now a lost art, once rounds are gone)

Not safe to have a rig on you that is to big for your body and falling off of you in the plane, if you can climb out of the harness on the ground or in the plane, you can FALL out in the air! There have been cases of this in the past, more then once.

Quote:
any suggestions?

1.Call around to see if any other DZ's have smaller rigs for students. (most places have them)

2. Keep saving your money for your own rig, its winter now anyway, so you won't be jumping.

3. keep an eye out for good deals, older closet queens can be a real good deal, older don't mean bad.

4. Don't jump till you find a proper fitting harness and container and don't jump in high winds or in locations where a flea might fart untill you get a canopy more matched to your wing loading and weight. (or hook up your canopy backwards, at least you be able to land going forwards.)


AllisonH  (D 29505)

Jan 28, 2007, 6:11 AM
Post #5 of 34 (3146 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Grape] 110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? [In reply to] Can't Post

My home dropzone's smallet student gear was 230 when I got my license too. I was doing RW so I was the first group out of the Otter, and I was landing after the AFF students and if there wasn't a go-around I was landing after the tandems and the plane. It wasn't unsafe (but the rig wasn't falling off of me, just uncomfortable and large), just really annoying.

After I got my license the DZO put together a rig with at 175 in it for me to rent (I also weigh 110). Since then, that rig has gotten a lot of use. If it really bothers you, come visit us - Tecumseh is right down the road from Napoleon.


Grape

Jan 28, 2007, 6:20 AM
Post #6 of 34 (3138 views)
Shortcut
Re: [stratostar] 110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
if you can climb out of the harness on the ground or in the plane, you can FALL out in the air! There have been cases of this in the past, more then once.

THAT'S conforting... it was kinda one of my big concerns with such a big rig. i'm a little weary about freeflying in that thing too. i accidentally got into a sitfly on my solo jump and imediately arched back to my belly cuz i didnt know if the rig would cooperate.

Quote:
don't jump in high winds or in locations where a flea might fart untill you get a canopy more matched to your wing loading and weight. (or hook up your canopy backwards, at least you be able to land going forwards.).

now THAT is some SPECTACULAR advice! I'll definately keep that in mind with every jump.


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Jan 28, 2007, 6:22 AM
Post #7 of 34 (3131 views)
Shortcut
Re: [stratostar] 110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? [In reply to] Can't Post

Our smallest student rig at Raeford was a Navigator 220 for a while. We got a 200 after we found out we needed something smaller and have jumped a very-tiny girl with a Sabre2 150 with great results. The smallest was one of our regular rental rigs. It had a CYPRES and an RSL, and more importantly, it fit. Sometimes you simply have to be creative in order to accomodate the smallest and largest students.

Chuck


stratostar  (Student)

Jan 28, 2007, 7:35 AM
Post #8 of 34 (3079 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Grape] 110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
it was kinda one of my big concerns with such a big rig.

It should be.

Quote:
i'm a little weary about freeflying in that thing too.

And you should be.

Quote:
i accidentally got into a sitfly on my solo jump and imediately arched back to my belly cuz i didnt know if the rig would cooperate.

Happend before with others "falling out of the hole" like the tandem passanger this past summer, I remember a girl student in the south a few years ago who fell out on deployment of a rig that didn't fit. When in a sit, the leg straps can slide down towards your knees, if you don't move them back up and deploy, you can bend in half and out you "can" go.

Quote:
now THAT is some SPECTACULAR advice! I'll definately keep that in mind with every jump.

Wink


sparkie  (D License)

Jan 28, 2007, 10:41 AM
Post #9 of 34 (2975 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Grape] 110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
i'm a little weary about freeflying in that thing too. i accidentally got into a sitfly on my solo jump and imediately arched back to my belly cuz i didnt know if the rig would cooperate.

Most student rigs arent made to freefly with anyway. Apart form your particular problem with the size of the rigs, the bridles are usually not protected (all tucked away from exposure to the wind) like on freefly rigs and closingflaps often close the "wrong" way so that in a sit it can catch wind and open. Leg straps can crawl up towards your knees if there's no cord between the leg staps to keep them together.

I didnt feel safe doing anthing other than belly flight and the occasional back or frontflip on student gear.


Chris-Ottawa  (A License)

Jan 28, 2007, 11:55 AM
Post #10 of 34 (2949 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Grape] 110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey,

I started jumping at a small DZ and the smallest student gear was a Navigator 280. I weight 115 lbs, you do the math.

I had the same problem, I just had to be really careful of the winds. I wasn't allowed to jump while other students were. Not fun.

Anyways, after 10 jumps, I was able to jump one of the bigger guy's rig that had an adjustable main lift web and a 210 in it. Worked well but it moved around a bit. After 4 or 5 jumps on that I jumped a 170 for 1 jump, then got onto a 150 as there was 2 available from people who didn't jump a lot. They were very happy to share their rig with me and I will do the same if anyone ever wants to jump mine. Anyways, I put about 10-15 on the 150 then I bought my own which is a 135. I've been jumping mine since and I love it. My first reserve ride was the smallest canopy I had jumped at that point. Jump #31 was jumped on a Sabre2 150, then quickly followed by a PD 143. Scored 2 jumps in one!!

Anyways, my post isn't going to help you a lot on how to resolve your issue, but I'd recommend not jumping a rig that doesn't fit. Think if you're doing a roll or something and have a premature deployment...the harness may stay with the parachute while you continue in freefall...not something I want to be worried about.

Now that I have my own rig I feel so much safer...and happy. But seriously, I'm almost sure someone around your DZ has a spare rig that they would let you use until you got your own. I'm sure there are rigs available for you, just be sure the reserve isn't too small and it has an AAD.

Hope this helps

(Here's a video of me under a Manta 288 on jump 6 or 7 I think)
http://friends.iamgates.com/.../chris%20landing.wmv

Chris


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jan 28, 2007, 1:21 PM
Post #11 of 34 (2894 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Grape] 110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? [In reply to] Can't Post

Two separate issues here:
1- harness too big,
2 - main canopy too big

A harness that is too big is a major safety concern. At least one tiny (Namibian) student has fallen out of an extra-large harness.

2- Too large a main canopy is not nearly as big a problem (I apologize for the pun). Yes, you might have to learn to land backwards ... ho-hum ... I did dozens of backwards landings when I was young, tough and rounds were the only canopies available for students.
Your problem is that your DZ is not busy enough to afford a wide variety of transition rigs for a wide variety of sizes of students.
For example: my boss told me not to bother repacking the 340 square foot rig for huge students, because he has decided that huge students are at too great a risk of injuring themselves (Hint: the majority of our huge students were "couch potatoes").
The solution to your second problem is to visit a larger DZ - with a larger selection of transition rigs - until you are ready to buy your own gear.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jan 28, 2007, 2:12 PM
Post #12 of 34 (2870 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Grape] 110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? [In reply to] Can't Post

> is it safe for me to jump this way?

Canopy size - yes, provided the winds are low enough so you do not back up. PD recommends a loading of at least .5 for their canopies, and your exit weight is probably 140lbs or so. You probably will have to take extra care to jump in only light winds until you can get a smaller canopy.

Harness size - if it is falling off you it's not safe. One of the scariest AFF's I had was one where a japanese girl arched so hard that she slid out of the harness - the leg straps went past her knees and the yoke slid up her arms. The chest strap caught under her chin (fortunately) and me and the reserve-side grabbed the legstraps and pulled them back down. We held them there until opening, then rotated her upright so the rig wouldn't slide during opening shock. She stayed in.

After we landed there was some talk of using dacron line to hold the harness tighter, but we (the instructors, that is) vetoed that and got the DZO to get one "small chick" rig with a Triathalon 190 in it. It had three sizes - medium, small and very small. It worked well for smaller jumpers.


redwings  (A 52149)

Jan 28, 2007, 3:17 PM
Post #13 of 34 (2849 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Grape] 110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? [In reply to] Can't Post

Time to tell my story.

I weigh 115 lbs on a good day, and I've been jumping a Manta 288 since Day One. That said, my DZ has smaller harnesses that while still doesn't fit perfectly, it is enough. I've jumped in everything from no wind to student-limit winds. Yeah, the rig is about a quarter of my weight. Plus I'm wearing weights. Blush

Can't wait to get my own gear. I've resigned to the fact I'll have to get a new rig when I get my A, unless my instructor is able to cook something up for me.

Student rigs = no fun. Transition rigs, on the other hand, is a different story.


wilcox

Jan 29, 2007, 8:45 AM
Post #14 of 34 (2622 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Grape] 110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm small. I have had some problems with big rigs and big canopies.

big canopy

My experience is that the canopy can take longer to get pressurized again after a partial collapse, Say no to jumping when the wind is gusty.

Other jumpers might not be aware about how far/short you can get because you have much lower wingloading than most jumpers. Learn about spotting to make sure you get off where you want.

big harness
The first rig I got was slightly to big. Once when I was practicing transitions from head-up to head-down the rig slipped over my shoulders down to my elbows. My arms got stuck and it would have been very difficult to pull the reserve and impossible to pull main canopy. I went to belly, but my rig just got stuck harder in that position. I went back to head up which was not very easy since I was just learning and had no arms to keep balance. But in that position I manage to get the rig back on my shoulders.

You need to be aware that many instructors have never had problems with to big rigs, and might not be aware of how easy things that can go wrong. Their advise might not always be well suited for you if they are not aware of the risks. So if you feel uncomfortable, trust yourself.


sillie1111  (C 36674)

Jan 29, 2007, 11:46 AM
Post #15 of 34 (2548 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Grape] 110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? [In reply to] Can't Post

Unfortunately at your size even when you get into your own gear you will either have to buy all new gear fit to you, or you will have to put up with having a rig that is to big. Chances are when you get your own gear you will still be jumping a relatively large canopy, and most second hand rigs with those size canopies are usually sized for larger people. It is hard to find a used rig with canopies bigger then 135 or so that will fit small people like us. Believe me I have been looking for a while now and have had to settle for a jav with a b-15 harness which is still way to big for me! Good luck hopefully you get lucky and find something right for you.


Grape

Jan 29, 2007, 2:32 PM
Post #16 of 34 (2498 views)
Shortcut
Re: [sillie1111] 110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? [In reply to] Can't Post

it makes me a little more comfortable to hear that others have dealt with this, but those stories of falling out of the harness kinda scare the shit outta me. i've tried on other people's rigs and the biggest problem is my thighs. what about wearing like 5 pairs of shorts or wrapping ace bandages around my thighs? i've been eating more chocolate but i cant get fat!!! i want to freefly and play in the sky without worrying about losing my rig, ya know?


MagicGuy  (D 30470)

Jan 29, 2007, 2:45 PM
Post #17 of 34 (2486 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Grape] 110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm a small guy and I jumped a 260 Navigator for my first jump, Navigator 240s for the rest of my AFF. I weigh around 130 pounds without gear and I'm 5'8.

The biggest problem I faced was not getting much penetration into the wind. It makes accurate landings a bit tougher. Just remember that on a big canopy like that, where you start your final approach is probably where you will be landing. Don't fly over anything you don't want to land on!

As for the harness itself being too big, that's definitely a safety concern that I would bring up the the rigger and/or S&TA. Just remember, skydiving will always be there and you want to be there to experience it. Don't risk your own safety to get up in the air if you think the gear isn't right for you. Try other DZs!

Good luck, and remember, you aren't the only one that has had issues with gear being TOO big.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jan 29, 2007, 3:07 PM
Post #18 of 34 (2469 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Grape] 110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? [In reply to] Can't Post

>i want to freefly and play in the sky . . . .

I would strongly suggest you not freefly until you get a rig that fits you well! Freeflying really exacerbates rig fit problems.


Thunderbow  (A 47220)

Jan 30, 2007, 4:37 PM
Post #19 of 34 (2318 views)
Shortcut
Re: [AllisonH] 110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If it really bothers you, come visit us - Tecumseh is right down the road from Napoleon.

No,no, come on over to Midwest Freefall. I'm sure we have something smaller than that.


jumpnjivin  (A License)

Jan 31, 2007, 5:20 PM
Post #20 of 34 (2177 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Grape] 110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? [In reply to] Can't Post

and getting no penetration.


I would be willing to help you with this paricular problem, but the rest is out of my hands. ShockedWink


CrazyL  (D 17699)

Jan 31, 2007, 7:44 PM
Post #21 of 34 (2164 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Grape] 110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? [In reply to] Can't Post

Like billvon mentioned, don't freefly till you have a harness that fits you properly. Loose harness is no good for freefly and jumping out of airplanes. Another option if your going to be buying used gear is to have the harness resized. You'd send the harness/container to the manufacturer of the harness/container and have the harness resized and or replaced. Also, when you do jump smaller canopies the trajectory you land at will change, the glide,turnrate and descent will increase as you transition to smaller and smaller canopies.You can adapt. Hopefully you get lucky in your search for gear and it's purple! If freeflying and wingsuiting are your deal girl then invest in gear that fits you properly. Freefall is for learning to fly, not harness issues. Enjoy your flight.


teason  (D 18902)

Jan 31, 2007, 8:47 PM
Post #22 of 34 (2149 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Grape] 110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? [In reply to] Can't Post

At small DZs, there is not alot of call for gear at the extreme ends of the spectrum. Small DZs tend to have one size fits all gear.

It's funny, back in the early 90s, putting a 288 on a 100lbs girl was common. Gear was wide (even sport gear) and my brand new state-of-the-art Sabre 170 was being loaded to crazy degree! I weighed 190 out the door and I was over the manufacturer's recommended max loading!(at the time it was 187lbs!)

Now that we load canopies 2.5 and beyond, we look at a low wing loading as crazy!

The only thing that has changed is what we view as the extreme end of wing loading. But rest assured that people learned safely on the size canopy for years.

Now, the other concern. Improperly sized gear. I see the wrong gear on people more now that there are different sized containers than the days when we tried one size fits all. There is a danger in putting extra large gear on small people and small main/reserves on large people.

If you have one size fits all gear, it's probably adjusted before each jump. I've seen gear on a tiny 80lbs girl on J7 (large as large can be) and the harness adjusted so that when she exited unstable and had her canopy deploy when she was upside down the gear stayed on.

Don't let anyone scare you about falling out the "hole" either. That gear is touching your butt, not half way up your back (small containers with big harness' have the biggest hole, not big containers with the harness adjusted small.)

Now, I have not seen you or your body (no I'm not being creepy!) so if you have concerns, make sure you get a good gear check from the instructor/jump master before you board the aircraft.

Finally, as for the gear slipping off the shoulders, when I land, I can slip student gear off me with out loosening anything....and I'm 5'11" and 200lbs.

Of course, there is nothing better than properly fitting sport gear!Wink


MarkM  (C 35089)

Jan 31, 2007, 9:00 PM
Post #23 of 34 (2147 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Grape] 110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
but i dont know what the other options are. any suggestions?

Move to Florida. My place has plenty of room for you to crash out in Wink


ZigZagMarquis  (D License)

Jan 31, 2007, 9:10 PM
Post #24 of 34 (2142 views)
Shortcut
Re: [teason] 110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, I'll pile on that...

Poorly fitting gear, like Grape originally described, is a bad bad (Black Death) thing that needs to bad addressed ASAP.

A 110lb person w/ 30 some jumps using a 230sq ft canopy isn't really that bad a thing. Remember, at that (in) experience level, minor mistakes likely to be made by in-experienced canopy pilot are more likely to result in minor bumps and bruises if that 110lb person is under a 230 rather then say a 150 or 135... or 120... and this is not a bad thing. You have the rest of your life to downsize... but maybe only if the rest of your life is a long time.


lisamariewillbe  (A License)

Feb 3, 2007, 7:26 PM
Post #25 of 34 (1967 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Grape] 110lb girl using a 230 canopy... wtf???? [In reply to] Can't Post

Are you allowed to freefly in rental gear where you are jumping? And the size of the canopy has no bearing on your desire to freefly.

My numbers recently allowed me to start freeflying but I cant because most DZs do not want you freeflying in the rentals. At our DZs its because the lack of bridle protection and other things to do with the container not being FF friendly.

If you dont feel safe in a rig then you shouldnt jump it. If you only feel safe in belly to earth then you should only go on your belly. Before attempting to do anything besides belly in rental or borrowed gear you should ask the people whose gear it is if that is okay.


First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Skydiving : Safety and Training

 


Search for (options)