Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Pilot Chute in Tow

 


starzwithaz  (A License)

Jul 7, 2001, 9:50 PM
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Pilot Chute in Tow Can't Post

If you have a pilot-chute-in-tow should you try and pull it out or hook knife it before you go for the silver??
I know that reserve main intanglements are a bitch and can result in a not to favorable outcome.

Your thoughts......

Blue Skies and Sandy Beaches
Starz


PalmettoTiger

Jul 7, 2001, 10:22 PM
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Re: Pilot Chute in Tow [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If you have a pilot-chute-in-tow should you try and pull it out or hook knife it before you go for the silver?
Time is the deciding factor here. Unless you're waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay above your decision altitude, go for the reserve. I suspect that most of the time people encounter this mal, they do not have the time needed to get the knife, get a hand on the bridle, cut the bridle (more to cut, and stronger fabric), get stable, and pull the reserve.
I do wonder if you should cutaway first though. I assume that pulling the reserve is going to dislodge the main, so in general do folks feel that you run a higher risk of entanglement if the main is cut away or still attached?

(At my low experience, I'm sticking with the "if you've pulled one, pull all three" rule, until I have better air awareness.)

Blues, squares,
PTiger

"Beer: the OTHER other white meat."


spectre230
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Jul 8, 2001, 12:12 AM
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Post deleted by sangiro [In reply to] Can't Post



DZBone  (D 14358)

Jul 8, 2001, 9:28 AM
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Re: Pilot Chute in Tow [In reply to] Can't Post

CRITICAL POINT: don't do a backflip here, or you will make the situation MUCH, MUCH, WORSE!





starzwithaz  (A License)

Jul 8, 2001, 10:47 AM
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Re: Pilot Chute in Tow [In reply to] Can't Post

WOW!!!!!!!!!That's one I never heard of.
Did you pull-in the bridle and PC or was the position sufficient enough to avoid the dreaded intanglement?

Blue Skies and Sandy Beaches
Starz


skymedic  (C 33561)

Jul 8, 2001, 11:12 AM
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Re: Pilot Chute in Tow [In reply to] Can't Post

OK, You pull in the PC and bridle, but you better not pull it in too far because then you will pull the pin out and get stuck with what you are trying to avoid. dont think I would try this.

Marc


Zennie

Jul 8, 2001, 1:38 PM
Post #7 of 14 (1788 views)
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Re: Pilot Chute in Tow [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Another way to deal with a pc in tow.Spread legs wide and do a front flip/roll and catch the pc and bridle and get back to face to earth.Then go for the silver.It worked for me and no pc or bridle to screw with a reserve opening.
K' that wins the Gonads of Steel award! Wink


------------
Blue Skies!

Zennie


Aviatrr  (D 27349)

Jul 8, 2001, 10:04 PM
Post #8 of 14 (1765 views)
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Re: Pilot Chute in Tow [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Another way to deal with a pc in tow.Spread legs wide and do a front flip/roll and catch the pc and bridle and get back to face to earth.Then go for the silver.It worked for me and no pc or bridle to screw with a reserve opening.
If it works for you, fine....it's your call.. In my opinion, you're just opening yourself up to another problem altogether.. As you flip forward, and your PC is trying to pull the pin straight out(as you are head down 1/4 of the way through a front flip) rather than up - you have a serious chance of a deployment as you are flipping yourself right through where all the lines are going to be.. What happens when you entangle yourself in the lines, and are unable to cutaway? No thanks, not for me..

On a throw out, with a PC in tow, I will pull both handles, then grab the container down low to try to keep the main D bag from coming out after the freebag leaves and 'loosens' it up..

On a pull out.....well, I wouldn't have this problem, would I? Smile

Mike



chicagoskydiver  (B 24599)

Jul 9, 2001, 9:04 AM
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Re: Pilot Chute in Tow [In reply to] Can't Post

My feeling is if altitude permits, pull the cutaway handle first and then go for the reserve. Although it does use up valuable time and altitude, it has a couple advanatages. One, it may cause the main to leave promptly should the main pin become dislodged. Secondly, you should have only one "set" of emergency procedures to use and you should be able to do it without thinking about it. You shouldn't have to stop and think about wether to go for that cutaway handle or not. There are many schools of thought on this, ultimately it's up to you as to how you handle your emergency procedures.

Hackey



davefabian123  (D License)

Jul 16, 2001, 9:12 AM
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I had one Saturday.... [In reply to] Can't Post

So, I dump, wait, wait, wait. Er, what the heck ? Nothing coming out. Look up over my right shoulder to try to spill more air to perhaps give the pilot chute a better chance. Nope, didn't work. Losing altitude. My plan for a pilot-chute-in-tow is to go for the reserve. No cutaway first. So, silver handle. Whoompf. As the reserve is coming out, my main comes out. F**k. Luckily the reserve stayed in the bag, and was flopping about over my right shoulder. My reserve pilot-chute (spring-coil) ended up winding through my left line set of the main, and over the top of my main, laying there. The main was bowed in the left side since the pilot-chute was over the top of it. Hmm, well, nothing I can do now but land it. It was flying fairly well. I could steer it and sort of flare it a bit. So, I thought about going for the pond for a softer landing, but it was flying decently (not perfect), so I go for the regular ground. Do a graceful, easygoing flare, and slide in. Get up, and I'm fine. Not even shaken up. Just happy and lucky. It could have been so much worse if they got more entangled. After thinking about it more (I wasn't thinking about it during it, I was just reacting to it and flying it) I kinda freaked out. Could have been worse. But I'm lucky.

Whatever your plan is, (cutaway and then reserve or just reserve) stick with your plan, and execute it. What I should have done first is reach behind me and try to pull on the bridle before I went for the reserve. If that didn't work, when going for the reserve I should have placed my right hand/arm over my back to cover the main-bag so that would minimize the chance of the main coming out.

Everybody seems to think they have the answer. "Cutaway first. You f**ked up. Cutaway first." Or, "No, you did the right thing. Go straight for the reserve. No need to cutaway first." I did what I believe to be the right thing, and I'm here to write about it. It was a good landing, and I'm very lucky. It could have been worse, and it could have been better. Had the main not come out, I'd probably not have posted to this thread. I just would've had a reserve come out...

Why not cutaway first ? OPINION: It loses time, and there's nothing to cutaway. After you cutaway, there may not be enough force on it to separate it from you, and as you're going for the reserve, your main will still be over you, and a ball of s**t will ensue...

Why cutaway first ? OPINION: To have one plan and one plan only for any/all malfunctions. To get rid of what may come out.

What happened to Mike McGowan when he had his at Crosskeys a year or two ago ? Did he cutaway first ? Anyone know ?

Blue Skies !!



DZBone  (D 14358)

Jul 16, 2001, 4:51 PM
Post #11 of 14 (1621 views)
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Re: I had one Saturday.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, the other reason to cut away is to get the main out of the way should the deployment of the reserve force a main deployment. Less mess to deal with.

Your choice.



ClayFowler  (A 36447)

Jul 17, 2001, 7:27 PM
Post #12 of 14 (1554 views)
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Re: Pilot Chute in Tow [In reply to] Can't Post

Spectre230, you saw skydiving in a movie once right?



Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Jul 17, 2001, 8:03 PM
Post #13 of 14 (1549 views)
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Re: Pilot Chute in Tow [In reply to] Can't Post

I've seen his method work before! Our clubs lead JM had a PC in tow, fliped caught it, hit the silver and then had to ct the main since the josteling and reserver force were enought to open the container. he had to manually remove the risers by pulling on them to get the 3 rings to release put it works. Its not to be attempted by the inexperienced or faint of heart.

Whoa... That was cool!


davefabian123  (D License)

Jul 18, 2001, 8:18 AM
Post #14 of 14 (1519 views)
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Bizarre method of dealing with the mal... [In reply to] Can't Post

Uh, yeah, okay.... Sheesh.... Why go to all that trouble and risk having the main come out while you're flipping over and get caught up in lines/risers/material, when you can simply reach behind you with your right hand and pull out the bridle ? Why ? Thats what I should have done this past Saturday....

I believe that you have a JM that does these arcane things (or at least tells you that s/he does), but
s/he's going overkill. Just pull the bridle.



<FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by davefabian123 on 7/18/01 08:25 AM.</EM></FONT>



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