Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Swooping and Canopy Control:
ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why.

 

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airborne82nd  (C License)

Dec 26, 2006, 8:46 AM
Post #1 of 31 (4625 views)
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ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. Can't Post

I have demos the

Nitro
Katana
Cobalt
Crossfire1
Crossfire2
Typhoon
Diablo
Stiletto
Vision
Samurai
Rage
Jedi
Fire bolt
Mamba

Crossfire 1 159, 139, 119
Crossfire 2 169, 149, 139, 129, 119

Of all the canopies I have decided on the Crossfire 2 series.

I think the Katana was the hardest fastest diving canopy but the crossfire2 wasnt far behind.

The katana has great flare but hard for me to figure out smoothly. I thought the crossfire2 had a bit better glide then the katana.

The crossfire was so easy to land for me at any speed and also the dives seem to be easily managed and I could just see and feel where the canopy was going.

The katana is just too much for my skill level and comfort level. If you have a crossfire loaded and want to go one step on your way to cross brace I would guess the katana be a good stop on that journey.

I found that the Fire bolt and rage felt like a crossfire to me but not as fast and with a little less flare both are great canopies.

The vision open crazy but soft and it planes out of the dive to quickly.

The cobalt to me and the nitro felt close to each other both way better then the vision but not as fast as the crossfire as for diving and swooping. Both turn very quick and are sensitive like the katana.

The samurai is like the Jedi but much better the both dive but the samurai is a great canopy great flare. I was close to buying one of these. Easy to flare and the glide is wow maybe the best but the crossfire seemed to glide better.

Mamba was a good canopy way faster then the vision and with a better flare open ok I just thought it turned to fast for my comfort and it was hard for me to figure out the flare.

So remember this is my little review. From demoing canopies for the last year and doing lots of research.

I am an infant swooper and has 600 jumps and 4 years in the sport so I dont know much at all.

I had problems finding a used rig and finally I had one made for me and the fit was so good I felt like I was one with the rig.

The crossfire2 is like that for me. I never was a great Lander and I dont like fast turning Diablos but the crossfire2 and the one but the crossfire 2 to me felt like it was measure and fitted to me.

I flare it perfect land it with ease and I can dive it and swoop it. I am not any natural canopy pilot so when I say if I can swoop this canopy and land it so easily anyone can do it.

For the user friendly and all the performance with the best damn openings, awesome glide, power flare, easy flare, easy to control carve, the crossfire 2 is my choice for now.

Some of these other canopies are either out of my skill level comfort level or I am brain-dead on flying them.

But if I swoop a crossfire2 119 the best distance I have done at 1.7 wing loading and do it with ease, then I fly the katana 120 and it scares the crap out of me and I land it like crap then you see my point. Its not the katana its me.

So the best fit for me was #1 Crossfire2, #2 Crossfire, #3 Samurai, #4 Nitro & Cobalt, #5 Mamba.

The fastest was #1 Katana, #2 Crossfire2, #3 Crossfire, #4Nitro #5 Cobalt

Remember consider the source this is just my review.


pjc  (D 104521)

Dec 26, 2006, 11:13 AM
Post #2 of 31 (4511 views)
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Re: [airborne82nd] ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. [In reply to] Can't Post

Wow thats a lot of demoing - Theres no way we could lay our hands on that kind of range of canopies to demo here in the UK! Still, I ended up with a XF2 as my latest toy & it totally rocks so I'm not too bothered Smile

Thanks for sharing your experiences... Most enlightening for us demo deprived Brits!


tuck  (D 29242)

Dec 26, 2006, 4:34 PM
Post #3 of 31 (4441 views)
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Re: [airborne82nd] ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. [In reply to] Can't Post

thanks for sharing all the knowledge. def makes me wanna try a crossfire2.


airborne82nd  (C License)

Dec 26, 2006, 5:51 PM
Post #4 of 31 (4435 views)
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Re: [tuck] ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. [In reply to] Can't Post

well try all you can some of these other canopies are awesome but are not for everyone but the crossfire could be for anyone.

very user friendly but capable of high performance.


Vectracide  (D License)

Dec 26, 2006, 5:57 PM
Post #5 of 31 (4431 views)
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Re: [airborne82nd] ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. [In reply to] Can't Post

Great research there Airborne. I just so happen to have a Crossfire2 119 for sale with around 600 jumps and the last 200 or so on a vectran lineset. Interested?


airborne82nd  (C License)

Dec 28, 2006, 6:44 PM
Post #6 of 31 (4260 views)
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Re: [Vectracide] ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. [In reply to] Can't Post

hey i am sorry, my son has a 119 and i need a 139 to make it back on long spots.

so thats what i am looking for right now i have a 149 in my contanior right now i am demoing this weeks so i need a 139 and then ill buy a brand new 129 from the factory.

thanks for think of me.


hparrish  (D 25090)

Dec 29, 2006, 1:32 AM
Post #7 of 31 (4230 views)
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Re: [airborne82nd] ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. [In reply to] Can't Post

Ahhhh Shit.........See you spent all that time demo'ing and now there's a new canopy out in that category.Crazy

Now theres the GLS XF based on the XF2.....Wink


dharma1976  (D 28634)

Dec 29, 2006, 7:05 AM
Post #8 of 31 (4196 views)
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Re: [hparrish] ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. [In reply to] Can't Post

grrr thanks for rubbing it in....

I saw that listed in the skydiving magazine last month and was furious

Dave


alterego84

Dec 29, 2006, 7:22 AM
Post #9 of 31 (4193 views)
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Re: [hparrish] ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Now theres the GLS XF based on the XF2.....

this is kind of off topic, but does it concern anyone else on how fast deadalous spits out new canopies, or variations of canopies? i mean is it possible to do all the necessary testing in that short amount of time between versions? almost just seems like they have an idea (ie hybrid skins) then put it out there to see if it works.

now i'm not saying that their not good canopies, i'm just questioning how much testing went into all the different variations. cause i'm pretty sure with the really small high performance stuff that if you change one "little" thing without changing or compensating other "little" things then it could be extremely dangerous.


marks  (D 22296)

Dec 29, 2006, 8:44 AM
Post #10 of 31 (4181 views)
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Re: [alterego84] ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't see how you can say that, they have only spit out 2 different canopies for skydiving. the gls xf is a crossfire modded with updated lines and skin, it has been tested for years and years. The JVX, the other canopy that they "spit out" was being tested for a few years before it was released also.


alterego84

Dec 29, 2006, 10:30 AM
Post #11 of 31 (4162 views)
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Re: [marks] ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. [In reply to] Can't Post

i was more thinking along the lines of all the modifications that are done to the canopies. for example you can an all zp, hybrid w/ top skin, hybrid w/ bottom skin, hybrid w/ xbraces, hybrid w/ a combination of those things, full sail, competition trim, non-competition trim, or a combination of all of that. all those different combinations probably have a different effect on the canopy, so how do they know if one combination is more or less stable, or more or less high performance, or what ever?

primarily i'm just worried about saftey because i would rather not have a canopy collapse on me. and looking through previous threads about the jvx i've read that some don't like the deep braked flight mode, so maybe there is a correlation of some kind.

again sorry for getting off topic, i'm just trying to learn as much as possible. thanks for the reply marks.


bofh  (D 13995)

Dec 29, 2006, 10:32 AM
Post #12 of 31 (4160 views)
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Re: [marks] ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I don't see how you can say that, they have only spit out 2 different canopies for skydiving. the gls xf is a crossfire modded with updated lines and skin, it has been tested for years and years. The JVX, the other canopy that they "spit out" was being tested for a few years before it was released also.

There's the new Neos and Reserve too.


johnny1488  (D 25453)

Dec 29, 2006, 10:59 AM
Post #13 of 31 (4150 views)
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Re: [bofh] ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. [In reply to] Can't Post

The Neos and reserve are made by Icarus Canopies.

The others are made by New Zealand aerosports.


marks  (D 22296)

Dec 29, 2006, 1:09 PM
Post #14 of 31 (4119 views)
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Re: [bofh] ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. [In reply to] Can't Post

the neos is icarus, and has been tested for years also.

daedalus does not make a reserve at this time.


Spizzzarko

Dec 30, 2006, 9:36 AM
Post #15 of 31 (4040 views)
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Re: [alterego84] ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. [In reply to] Can't Post

You Say:
"primarily i'm just worried about saftey because i would rather not have a canopy collapse on me. and looking through previous threads about the jvx i've read that some don't like the deep braked flight mode, so maybe there is a correlation of some kind."


I Say:
I really don't think it is a matter of the JVX not liking deep braked flight, but more of a matter of the JVX being more effecient on rear risers than brakes. Most 9 cell canopies will get a better glide on rears than 7 cell canopies. Conversely 7 cell canopies will hang better in deep brakes and that seems to be the best way to get them back from spots. I'm sure the jvx will do just fine in deep brakes, but I bet it is not the preferred method of operation for that canopy. The JVX and Velocity, both great canopies, are very different beasts and what you do for a velocity may not be th ebest method for the jvx.


You Say:
"for example you can an all zp, hybrid w/ top skin, hybrid w/ bottom skin, hybrid w/ xbraces, hybrid w/ a combination of those things, full sail, competition trim, non-competition trim, or a combination of all of that. all those different combinations probably have a different effect on the canopy, so how do they know if one combination is more or less stable, or more or less high performance, or what ever?"


I say:
Changing things like line trim and canopy material will have a profound effect on canopy flight, but in my opinion a crossfire made from sail is still a crossfire for the most part. You may be able to load it a little higher and get good results, but a crossfire made from sail is still going to fly like a crossfire. It's not like you are going to get the flare power of a jvx or velocity out of a sail crossfire. I venture to guess that daedolous is offering the crossfire in sail for those who are getting into the ground launching and want to still be able to use their canopy for skydiving. I bet that a sail crossfire loaded higher will still not perform in a manner that is remarkedly better than an all zp crossfire. I just do not think that we will see people being really competitive in the cpc on sail crossfires against velocities, and sail jvx's loaded at 2.5 plus.



Airborne says that he needs a 139 to make it back from spots.

I say:
Airborne you really need to re-evaluate when and where you are exiting a jump plane or pull a little higher. Sure a bigger canopy will not descend as fast as a smaller one but realize that it also has much more drag and will not fly forward as fast. If you really feel comfortable with a 119 don't discount it because you need to get back from long spots all the time. Just change your habits and you will be able to get back easily. There is nothing gained from being in freefall below 3.5, and you have a lot more to lose to include time to deal with a malfunction and altitude to get back from a shitty spot.


hparrish  (D 25090)

Jan 2, 2007, 5:32 PM
Post #16 of 31 (3880 views)
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Re: [Spizzzarko] ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with Schimmel and Spizarko and all of their points here.....

Additionally:

The designer for Icarus is the same Designer for Daedelus. His designs are sound and have extensive test piloting performed before they are released.

Daedelus focuses on High Performance Competetion Air Foils and Ground Launch Canopies. The Competition Wings have the same level of tweaks and enhancements as PD's or Precisions Competition Models.

Icarus focuses on the long standing brand names and produces some competiong models (The older FX and VX) and allot of moderate wings (Safire & Crossfire).

Sail Cloth Vs Zero-P does give you some performance gains but only if you are a skilled pilot. Otherwise there is little to no advantage. But the other clear benefits of Sail Cloth over Zero P, is longevity. Sail Cloth is less resistent to UV Rays and wear. I'd personally like to see more history to prove the less wear claim, but I agree with the logic.

It's Line Trim and Airfoil Design that truely impact , the performance of a canopy.......Not Zero-P vs Sail Cloth.

All that said.............The GLS XF is basicaly the next generation of Crossfire, with a competition Lineset, and hybrid Zero-P and Sail Cloth topskin construction. It is meant to bridge the gap between Non-Cross Braced and Cross Braced canopies. It falls in line with the Katana.

Hope that is useful information.

Regards,


johnny1488  (D 25453)

Jan 2, 2007, 6:18 PM
Post #17 of 31 (3873 views)
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Re: [hparrish] ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The designer for Icarus is the same Designer for Daedelus. His designs are sound and have extensive test piloting performed before they are released.

Not true. Jyro designs for New Zealand Aerosports. The last canopies he has designed was the VX. The JVX is changes made to that planform.

Cimsa (Icarus Canopies) Has designed the Crossfire2 Safire2 Omni, Reserve, Neos, Unnamed 11 cell prototype. As well as other non released canopies.

Icarus will always be on the forefront of cutting edge canopy design. The designers at Icarus Canopies are top notch.


bob.dino  (E 2185)

Jan 2, 2007, 6:52 PM
Post #18 of 31 (3862 views)
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Re: [johnny1488] ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. [In reply to] Can't Post

When you make comments like "Icarus will always be on the forefront of cutting edge canopy design", you should probably disclose that you have a commercial relationship with the company.

Not that I'm disputing the truth of your statement, just that it should have a disclaimer on it Smile.


AggieDave  (D License)

Jan 2, 2007, 6:56 PM
Post #19 of 31 (3859 views)
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Re: [bob.dino] ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Not that I'm disputing the truth of your statement, just that it should have a disclaimer on it

I personally think Icarus makes great products and that Johnny works his ass off to help people with their purchases. However, I think anyone that's sponsered should have a little * on any comments they have in regards to product on DZ.com. That's if they're sponsered by ANYone. Especially those sneaky guys/gals that are AIC with Aerodyne, they sneak in under the radar sometimes and slam other products. It really makes Aerodyne look bad.


(This post was edited by AggieDave on Jan 2, 2007, 7:15 PM)


johnny1488  (D 25453)

Jan 2, 2007, 7:13 PM
Post #20 of 31 (3855 views)
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Re: [bob.dino] ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. [In reply to] Can't Post

I often put a disclaimer in my posts. Usually they are people asking about canopy impressions.


hparrish  (D 25090)

Jan 2, 2007, 7:36 PM
Post #21 of 31 (3847 views)
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Re: [johnny1488] ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. [In reply to] Can't Post

Not true. Jyro designs for New Zealand Aerosports. The last canopies he has designed was the VX. The JVX is changes made to that planform.

Cimsa (Icarus Canopies) Has designed the Crossfire2 Safire2 Omni, Reserve, Neos, Unnamed 11 cell prototype. As well as other non released canopies.
I stand corrected..............But I knew there was a tie in somewhere between Icarus and Daedelus. Either in Design or Ownership, or former designers or former ownership. Sounds like Jyro worked on the Icarus VX and the Daedelus JVX designs.

Either way Daedelus does not just crank out untested new designs.


airborne82nd  (C License)

Jan 2, 2007, 8:57 PM
Post #22 of 31 (3836 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. [In reply to] Can't Post

aerodyne that mamba is a great parachute much better then the vision

and nothing like it.

i think aerodyne makes great stuff, that mamba is aweosme it just didnt fit my flying skill and preference and comfortable like a crossfire.

i landed the mamba great and its fast its just the crossfire fit me better.


malrefaei  (C License)

Sep 20, 2012, 12:00 PM
Post #23 of 31 (3052 views)
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Re: [airborne82nd] ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. [In reply to] Can't Post

I am currently flying sabre 1 with wingload 1.2 i have been flying this canopy for over 150 jumps and i basically can do anything with that canopy from acc speed sharp turns and good landing. i am deciding to down size to crossfire 2 with 1.46. I just want to know what i will be facing ?


davelepka  (D 21448)

Sep 20, 2012, 3:16 PM
Post #24 of 31 (3010 views)
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Re: [malrefaei] ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I just want to know what i will be facing ?

Probably the ground.


waveoff5500  (D 32087)

Sep 20, 2012, 9:18 PM
Post #25 of 31 (2930 views)
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Re: [davelepka] ok I have demo'd for a year now and its the Crossfire2 for me. here is why. [In reply to] Can't Post

hahahahaha that was an awesome response.


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