Nov 27, 2006, 8:18 PM
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PD Low Bulk Reserve - upsize your reserve or downsize your container?
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The "new" PD reserve - with a smaller pack volume - made it to the front page of Skydiving Magazine...
The article talks about how it packs 1-2 sizes smaller.
The article also says: "It's not yet clear if rig manufactures will have to adjust the standard sizes of their reserve containers to accept the new canopies." And it says that since it flies/lands better, PD is upping the allowed wingloading. Both these comments lead to the idea that one could buy a smaller rig and keep the same square foot reserve - where the safer thing might be to buy a larger reserve for the same size container.
This conversation has me hearing Bill Booth's voice reciting Booth's law - that whenever a manufacture makes something safer, skydivers will push the limits farther to keep the fatality rate consistent.
So - lets hear it...
Specify your wing loading in your sound off - as this might have something to do with your perspective.
Do you want to take advantage of the tighter pack volume reserve by buying a larger reserve for your same size rig?
Or
Do you want to buy the same sq ft reserve and get a smaller rig on your back?
Pros vs Cons.
(This post was edited by tdog on Nov 27, 2006, 8:19 PM)
Nov 27, 2006, 8:51 PM
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Re: [tdog] PD Low Bulk Reserve - upsize your reserve or downsize your container?
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I am jumping an 85 icarus fx with wing loading of 2-1 with a micro raven 120 reserve, when i get the cash i plan to upsize the reserve to at least a 150, I believe in bigger is better when it comes to your last shot. Rediculously tiny reserves are merely an ego stroke.
Nov 27, 2006, 9:41 PM
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Re: [tdog] PD Low Bulk Reserve - upsize your reserve or downsize your container?
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when did you get the issue? Nov or Dec?
Did it say anything about cost deltas? By the time, if ever, there is reason to replace the smart 220 with a smart/pd in the 190, maybe I could take advantage of the compactness, but not for hundreds of dollars.
Nov 27, 2006, 10:14 PM
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Re: [kelpdiver] PD Low Bulk Reserve - upsize your reserve or downsize your container?
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when did you get the issue? Nov or Dec?
Did it say anything about cost deltas? By the time, if ever, there is reason to replace the smart 220 with a smart/pd in the 190, maybe I could take advantage of the compactness, but not for hundreds of dollars.
I received my copy of Skydiving on Saturday. The article reports that PD are waiting for an exemption to be approved by the FAA regarding placarding requirements. The article also reported that PD are presently offering the new reserve in sizes 99, 106, 113, 126, and 143. Larger sizes to be determined later.
Nov 28, 2006, 4:51 AM
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Re: [tdog] PD Low Bulk Reserve - upsize your reserve or downsize your container?
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Honestly any one who is salivating over this development so they can down size to a tiny "Cool" container must be leaving out 1 important issue in their thought process, "can I survive loading a reserve at >1.25 that is landing unconciouse and at ALL DZ altitudes?"
1 PD employee I talked to said the best idea would be to put a larger reserve in the same container. There are exceptions but not to many of us are PRO swoopers nor on that level. But even the PRO swoopers have different rigs for a reason.
IMO, best idea is to keep the container they have and put some more reserve footage in the thing.
Nov 28, 2006, 5:02 AM
Post #11 of 90
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Re: [tdog] PD Low Bulk Reserve - upsize your reserve or downsize your container?
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Right now I have a 150 main at 1.4 and a 176 reserve at 1.17. Ideally I think I'd like for my next rig a 135 main and a low bulk 160 reserve. With the largest of these being a 143 reserve, it seems though that PD is marketing this more towards the "cool small rig" people, though.
Nov 28, 2006, 5:19 AM
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Re: [jheadley] PD Low Bulk Reserve - upsize your reserve or downsize your container?
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Biggest a 143 is disappointing.
I'm surprised that PD would be marketing them at the Small Rig People - can anyone confirm that it's actually their usual need to test things more before releasing them in larger sizes, due to unforeseen issues?
Nov 28, 2006, 5:40 AM
Post #14 of 90
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Re: [tdog] PD Low Bulk Reserve - upsize your reserve or downsize your container?
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I'm not sure I understood the poll options correctly... when I get a smaller container (probably not for a while...) I'll be glad that I can get a larger reserve.
Nov 28, 2006, 6:08 AM
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Re: [tdog] PD Low Bulk Reserve - upsize your reserve or downsize your container?
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Quote:
where the safer thing might be to buy a larger reserve for the same size container.
When I first got back in the sport, I bought a Raven 249 DashM. I met a freeflier (about 5'5" 160#). We were trading off RW skills for FF'ing skills. At one point, I noticed how large his reserve pack tray was and asked him what size reserve he had which was the same as mine. I asked him why so large for his size. His comment was, "I really don't want to look up and my last thoughts be; I should have went with a larger reserve."
Nov 28, 2006, 6:20 AM
Post #16 of 90
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Re: [Joellercoaster] PD Low Bulk Reserve - upsize your reserve or downsize your container?
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Biggest a 143 is disappointing.
I'm surprised that PD would be marketing them at the Small Rig People - can anyone confirm that it's actually their usual need to test things more before releasing them in larger sizes, due to unforeseen issues?
The article says the larger sizes might come out soon...
But if you think about it - making the smaller ones first could actually save someone... Typically, swoopers with near or sub 100 sqft canopies are the skydivers that are overloading their reserves. Making low-bulk reserves that allow a swooper to have a 100 sqft main a 150 reserve might be more desirable to the consumer market than having a 190 main and a 230 reserve....
Nov 28, 2006, 6:22 AM
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Re: [SnurgeMunkey] PD Low Bulk Reserve - upsize your reserve or downsize your container?
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So what is the issue now regarding a two out situation with two very different sized canopies?
ie. using D22369's situation as an example, if they went to a 150 Reserve and had a 2 out with an 85 main, Is that a bad thing??
I did not mention it in my original post - but I wanted to see if someone else would by putting the "pros vs cons" option to see if there were any legitimate cons...
Nov 28, 2006, 6:26 AM
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Re: [matthewcline] PD Low Bulk Reserve - upsize your reserve or downsize your container?
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In reply to:
Honestly any one who is salivating over this development so they can down size to a tiny "Cool" container must be leaving out 1 important issue in their thought process, "can I survive loading a reserve at >1.25 that is landing unconciouse and at ALL DZ altitudes?"
1 PD employee I talked to said the best idea would be to put a larger reserve in the same container. There are exceptions but not to many of us are PRO swoopers nor on that level. But even the PRO swoopers have different rigs for a reason.
IMO, best idea is to keep the container they have and put some more reserve footage in the thing.
Now that the thread is going - I will state my own opinion... I tend to agree with what you said... The people who posted words in this thread seem to all agree... But the people who just posted a vote seem to not all agree...
I should put a reminder on my calendar to revive this thread in three years to see what people actually do.
Nov 28, 2006, 2:03 PM
Post #21 of 90
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Re: [SnurgeMunkey] PD Low Bulk Reserve - upsize your reserve or downsize your container?
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Several tests have shown that you are better off with two similar sized canopies in a two-out situation. I think the more important consideration is what you've got in a one-out situation. In three years, I've seen a two-out situation one time, but I've seen a whole boatload of cutaways. I don't have a lot of skydiving experience, but from a statistical point of view I would have to go with a bigger reserve even if it's a good bit different from the main, just because you're much more likely to use each one by itself.
Nov 28, 2006, 2:22 PM
Post #22 of 90
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Re: [Programmer] PD Low Bulk Reserve - upsize your reserve or downsize your container?
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Quote:
Several tests have shown that you are better off with two similar sized canopies in a two-out situation.
Several tests? Which tests. Link to them or atleast reference which tests they were.
I only know of two tests that were done and talked about to the public. PD's test and Derek V.'s test. PD's test didn't get into the relm of modern swooping canopies, but Derek's test did. The general findings were that 2-outs suck, but having a much larger reserve really didn't matter in a 2-out.
So basically jump the reserve you want to jump for your personal safety. Several "tests" have shown that container manufactures don't want to make rigs for big reserves and small mains. There's a couple out there like Wings, though.
LouDiamond (D 25931)
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Nov 28, 2006, 4:38 PM
Post #23 of 90
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Re: [AggieDave] PD Low Bulk Reserve - upsize your reserve or downsize your container?
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Several "tests" have shown that container manufactures don't want to make rigs for big reserves and small mains. There's a couple out there like Wings, though.
Jump Shack will make a container to hold whatever reserve canopy size you want within reason as well.
Nov 28, 2006, 4:44 PM
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Re: [tdog] PD Low Bulk Reserve - upsize your reserve or downsize your container?
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In reply to:
In reply to:
So what is the issue now regarding a two out situation with two very different sized canopies?
ie. using D22369's situation as an example, if they went to a 150 Reserve and had a 2 out with an 85 main, Is that a bad thing??
I did not mention it in my original post - but I wanted to see if someone else would by putting the "pros vs cons" option to see if there were any legitimate cons...
The raven I have flies so differently than the fx, that personally I doubt that thirty additional feet of fabric will make much difference with a two out situation.
I worry a whole lot more about a off dz landing, imagine dropping into a backyard on a relatively unfamiliar canopy... no fun in any event, but with a larger, slower and more forgiving canopy my odds of walking away from it are better.
I do not have an AAD, and with the reflex container with the reserve pin against my back, the chances of two out are very slim....
Nov 28, 2006, 4:51 PM
Post #25 of 90
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Re: [tdog] PD Low Bulk Reserve - upsize your reserve or downsize your container?
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I would opt up for a low bulk PD143R reserve to go with my 120 Katana. I've had one reserve ride on an original PD143R (120 Stiletto line-twist out of control malfunction) and would definitely like to upsize from the 126R I presently have in my container (Mirage G4.1 MT) if this reserve becomes available.
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17%
The people who posted words in this thread seem to all agree... But the people who just posted a vote seem to not all agree... 
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