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AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ?

 

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piisfish

Nov 12, 2006, 12:23 PM
Post #1 of 38 (2133 views)
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AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? Can't Post

and release the student ??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5f8WLIdGKs8

My opinion is that one side is funny, the other is tragically unsafe.


Premier Tonto  (D 515)
Moderator
Nov 12, 2006, 1:09 PM
Post #2 of 38 (2101 views)
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Re: [piisfish] AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Well, a couple of things spring to mind.

1. What were their last dives like?

2. I see no decisive plan from the I to intercept and stabalise the student. (and in the 1st one, I think the 3 connections and no lock was pretty sad.)

3. It seems the student has only been told to arch, and not the "pull one arm in and roll out of bed" recovery from the stable on back position. Students CAN help themselves when given the skills.

It appears to be pretty crappy work all round, but there are some students that have more tricks than any instructor ever will. The video never tells the whole story.

(By the way, the roll on the second student at 1m41 sec looks staged.
Were these eval dives?)

t


(This post was edited by Tonto on Nov 12, 2006, 1:13 PM)


billeisele  (A 5643)

Nov 12, 2006, 1:36 PM
Post #3 of 38 (2080 views)
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Re: [Tonto] AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? [In reply to] Can't Post

the second vid almost looked staged,

it appears the AFF I could have acted a little sooner but as said earlier, the video never tells the whole story


livendive  (D 21415)

Nov 12, 2006, 1:37 PM
Post #4 of 38 (2080 views)
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Re: [Tonto] AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
(By the way, the roll on the second student at 1m41 sec looks staged.
Were these eval dives?)

They both look like up-jumpers to me, whether evaluators or not. The backflying is a bit too stable for a student, and they seem to be trying to stay off their bellies.

Blues,
Dave


piisfish

Nov 12, 2006, 1:55 PM
Post #5 of 38 (2066 views)
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Re: [Tonto] AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
(By the way, the roll on the second student at 1m41 sec looks staged.
Were these eval dives?)
these jumps were REAL student jumps, something like last AFF levels...


TonyJ  (D 24244)

Nov 12, 2006, 2:21 PM
Post #6 of 38 (2054 views)
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Re: [piisfish] AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? [In reply to] Can't Post

is that an fxc on the first one? looks like the knob on the left lift web.


piisfish

Nov 12, 2006, 2:52 PM
Post #7 of 38 (2038 views)
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Re: [TonyJ] AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
is that an fxc on the first one? looks like the knob on the left lift web.
it's possible.

looks like one indeed.


(This post was edited by piisfish on Nov 12, 2006, 2:56 PM)


skydiverek  (C 952)

Nov 12, 2006, 3:04 PM
Post #8 of 38 (2028 views)
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Re: [piisfish] AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? [In reply to] Can't Post

HAHA, seconds 28 to 29 look like a professional freestyle rutine Shocked Smile !


Andy9o8  (D License)

Nov 12, 2006, 3:13 PM
Post #9 of 38 (2021 views)
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Re: [piisfish] AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? [In reply to] Can't Post

The first guy looked like me after getting recurrent, learning to sitfly. Unimpressed


Mikhail  (D License)

Nov 12, 2006, 5:41 PM
Post #10 of 38 (1976 views)
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Re: [piisfish] AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? [In reply to] Can't Post

I admit that I have no idea how AFFI's are actually coached, but couldn't this be a "fake student" coach giving the AFFI trainee a hard time?


Premier Tonto  (D 515)
Moderator
Nov 12, 2006, 9:06 PM
Post #11 of 38 (1924 views)
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Re: [Mikhail] AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I admit that I have no idea how AFFI's are actually coached, but couldn't this be a "fake student" coach giving the AFFI trainee a hard time?

From post no 5...

"these jumps were REAL student jumps, something like last AFF levels... '


pocbase  (B 2487)

Nov 13, 2006, 6:31 AM
Post #12 of 38 (1830 views)
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Re: [piisfish] AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
these jumps were REAL student jumps, something like last AFF levels...

Are you absolutely dead sure?
I am still not buying it and am prepared to put $ 1000 (Zim Laugh) that it's one of the last levels of AFFI rating. Some of those rolls just look too staged and it's like the stuff I saw in Deland when some of the guys were getting AFF ratings and their buddies were being the bad students...


piisfish

Nov 13, 2006, 6:42 AM
Post #13 of 38 (1820 views)
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Re: [pocbase] AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Are you absolutely dead sure?
I am still not buying it and am prepared to put $ 1000 (Zim Laugh) that it's one of the last levels of AFFI rating. Some of those rolls just look too staged and it's like the stuff I saw in Deland when some of the guys were getting AFF ratings and their buddies were being the bad students...
go read the original on wuza. http://www.wuza.net/...iewtopic.php?t=16088


pocbase  (B 2487)

Nov 13, 2006, 6:54 AM
Post #14 of 38 (1812 views)
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Re: [piisfish] AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Nooooooooooooo!

Ok, you got a paypal account?


piisfish

Nov 13, 2006, 6:57 AM
Post #15 of 38 (1811 views)
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Re: [pocbase] AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? [In reply to] Can't Post

please send the 1k Zimbo$ to the Zimbabwean Government in order to help reduce their public debt Unimpressed

edited to add : or use the money as you wish for a public use at your DZ (like for a "Fund for Coaching" or something)


(This post was edited by piisfish on Nov 13, 2006, 7:26 AM)


pocbase  (B 2487)

Nov 13, 2006, 7:02 AM
Post #16 of 38 (1804 views)
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Re: [piisfish] AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? [In reply to] Can't Post

No dude, you give them a $, they take your farm Laugh

ok Mr moderator, I'll stop there with the off-topic wise cracks...Smile


Peej  (B 2456)

Nov 13, 2006, 8:17 AM
Post #17 of 38 (1777 views)
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Re: [pocbase] AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
these jumps were REAL student jumps, something like last AFF levels...

Are you absolutely dead sure?
I am still not buying it and am prepared to put $ 1000 (Zim Laugh) that it's one of the last levels of AFFI rating. Some of those rolls just look too staged and it's like the stuff I saw in Deland when some of the guys were getting AFF ratings and their buddies were being the bad students...

Seeing as though i can't read the french original i'm gonna go on the record here and say that i also think the rolls and flips just look a little too good. Check out the section between 30secs and around 35secs in.

There's a point, literally just for a second, where i could swear the "student" stops flipping, looks at the instructor as if to see where he is and get his bearings, then continues to flip and tumble


pocbase  (B 2487)

Nov 13, 2006, 8:36 AM
Post #18 of 38 (1762 views)
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Re: [Peej] AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? [In reply to] Can't Post

I must admit, I am still a bit skeptical, but there are quite a few people posting on the french forum who know the guy. One even swares it's not a fake... Then again, it's just a forum but from what's been written so far it seems credible.


bch7773  (C License)

Nov 13, 2006, 9:54 AM
Post #19 of 38 (1742 views)
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Re: [piisfish] AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
please send the 1k Zimbo$ to the Zimbabwean Government in order to help reduce their public debt Unimpressed

edited to add : or use the money as you wish for a public use at your DZ (like for a "Fund for Coaching" or something)

the DZ could use a toothpick. I think $1000 zims might put a downpayment on one.
Sly


Schoenauer  (D License)

Nov 13, 2006, 10:41 AM
Post #20 of 38 (1721 views)
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Re: [piisfish] AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? [In reply to] Can't Post

No I would not let it go so far.
Yes, this is sad if these two jumps are the final jumps in their AFF program and the jumps are not staged.

If these jumps are real AFF no BS, I am not sure whether to fail the student or the instructor because those two jumps are an example of a student wasting his money on bad instruction. I would recommend finding a better school.

Jump #1
Fail the student for:
1.Not regaining stability with in five seconds
2.Not demonstrating heading control
3.Not checking Altimeter enough though out skydive

Fire the instructor who:
1.Passing the student from previous levels
2.Not teaching how to recover stability, belly to earth
3.Not teaching heading control

Jump #2
Even though it was a better jump, fail the student, for:
1.Not being altitude aware for half the skydive
2.Not regaining stability, belly to earth, with in five seconds
3.Not demonstrating heading control

Judging from the student's performance on the second jump the instructor was much better. Although he or she needs to teach the roll out of bed maneuver, what the student does on the video is not an example of it.


(This post was edited by Schoenauer on Nov 13, 2006, 10:46 AM)


pocbase  (B 2487)

Nov 13, 2006, 10:54 AM
Post #21 of 38 (1709 views)
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Re: [Schoenauer] AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? [In reply to] Can't Post

That's why the more it goes the more I think it's B.S.
Nobody in that forum has said something about how bad the instructors would have been to let the dude get so far. Just about every post has got a comment on how funny it is and a smiley face. I'm a little confused.
Fish can you chime in there (if you want to)? For some reason the administrator still hasn't authorized me and I can't log in. Not that I want to stir, just that I still think this was very possibly staged.


icevideot  (D 23833)

Nov 13, 2006, 11:15 AM
Post #22 of 38 (1699 views)
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Re: [pocbase] AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? [In reply to] Can't Post

hmm, My vote is that it is BS. The student kicks harder on his belly than on his back and the instructor is a little too relaxed and just hanging back watching. I don't know any instructors that would wait to see when and how that is going to excalate into something worse.


tdog  (D 28800)

Nov 13, 2006, 11:35 AM
Post #23 of 38 (1684 views)
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Re: [icevideot] AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? [In reply to] Can't Post

The reason I think they are real students....

Look at the deployment on the 2nd student...

What experienced skydiver would spin 360 after pulling... It would take a "special type of..." to keep the eval dive that "realistic" on opening.... Even with a docile canopy, why ask for those line twists and hard openings, etc????


FreeflyGoat  (D 26046)

Nov 13, 2006, 11:40 AM
Post #24 of 38 (1679 views)
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Re: [piisfish] AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? [In reply to] Can't Post

did this student skip levels 3-6? He wouldnt have passed a cat C. Personally I like to give the student some time to try and work things out for themselves but after about 5-10 seconds of those shenanigans I'm gonna make them stable.


icevideot  (D 23833)

Nov 13, 2006, 12:36 PM
Post #25 of 38 (1658 views)
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Re: [tdog] AFFI's.. would you let it go sooo far ? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Quote:
What experienced skydiver would spin 360 after pulling... It would take a "special type of..." to keep the eval dive that "realistic" on opening....


Have you seen the Frankenass video? That video is very entertaining and he is an awesome skydiver but he got a lot of line twists on x-brace canopies. Later I realized he often looks at the ground and does what appear to be knee turn 360's during deployment for the video! Usually he kicks out of them but on one he had to cutaway and the following reserve deployment fractured his neck. Believe it or not skydiving has some of those "special types" and if they were making a staged video I would deploy a student size and style canopy on my back or while in a turn. There is a reason we tell students that pulling is more important than stability. The equipment is very reliable and you still have your reserve if needed. After seeing movies like jacka$$ I can easily believe people to be capable of that.


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