Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
what could injured Elvis have done to save ldg?

 


377  (F 666)

Oct 5, 2006, 10:00 AM
Post #1 of 16 (3018 views)
Shortcut
what could injured Elvis have done to save ldg? Can't Post

Most have you have seen the recent video of the Flying Elvis crash landing under canopy breaking his pelvis and other bones. What, if anything, could he have done in the last 50-100 feet to have saved the landing or at least have significantly reduced vertical velocity? It looks like he is coming down very fast. I don't do hook turns so I dont know much about canopy control in this kind of a situation. Although my video is low resolution, it looks like he is in deep brakes during the last 30 feet or so. It is painful to watch.


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 5, 2006, 10:49 AM
Post #2 of 16 (2950 views)
Shortcut
Re: [377] what could injured Elvis have done to save ldg? [In reply to] Can't Post

>What, if anything, could he have done in the last 50-100 feet to
> have saved the landing or at least have significantly reduced vertical
> velocity . . .

Start flaring immediately; simultaneously start a hard flare and level the wing so that it's directly above you. Flare as hard as you can without stalling the canopy. The problem you have is that there is an area of the swoop called "the corner" where it's tough to pull out of. In a toggle swoop you don't have the airspeed to generate enough lift to stop the swoop; in a front riser swoop you have too much vertical velocity to be cancelled by the lift you have. In a demo, you have the added problem that you MUST land on target. Taking out a spectator is not an option, so you have to recover from the swoop while still steering towards the target (or an available out; not usually an option at a crowded demo.)


dharma1976  (D 28634)

Oct 5, 2006, 11:04 AM
Post #3 of 16 (2936 views)
Shortcut
Re: [377] what could injured Elvis have done to save ldg? [In reply to] Can't Post

doine a practise turn up high and mad ea mental note of how much altitude he lost and realize that he needed to turn higher...

Dave


Reginald  (D 28162)

Oct 5, 2006, 11:17 AM
Post #4 of 16 (2918 views)
Shortcut
Re: [377] what could injured Elvis have done to save ldg? [In reply to] Can't Post

How about not gotten himself in that position to begin with...Crazy


piisfish

Oct 5, 2006, 5:11 PM
Post #5 of 16 (2783 views)
Shortcut
Re: [377] what could injured Elvis have done to save ldg? [In reply to] Can't Post

where is the video ?


AFFI  (D 25538)

Oct 5, 2006, 6:48 PM
Post #6 of 16 (2748 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Reginald] what could injured Elvis have done to save ldg? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
How about not gotten himself in that position to begin with...Crazy

Certainly - avoid my favorite...

Tackling the high performance landing learning curve can be tricky sometimes.

I think what is being asked is when one is learning to crank out dem kool landingz and they screw the pooch and hit it too low - then what is the best thing to do?

I know I have had my share of having to dig so hard it nearly put me into an early grave. What saved me was reacting to it quickly sure, but more likely that I downsized and learned on canopies that recover quickly.

First time I saw someone really pound it left a scar in my memory, it was very violent. If anything, I learned to look away at the last second.

I was once watching this Canadian about to end up in a 6 foot deep divot and just as I was about to look away he cranks a single toggle and somehow turned it into a graceful landing. I taped some of his crazy ass landings, will try to find some footage to post.
Canadians, good at everything AND they get to use grass medicinally?
Fucking Canadians...

Sounded like that moderator person has some good ideas about digginm out...

-


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Oct 5, 2006, 11:18 PM
Post #7 of 16 (2698 views)
Shortcut
Re: [377] what could injured Elvis have done to save ldg? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Most have you have seen the recent video of the Flying Elvis crash landing under canopy breaking his pelvis and other bones. What, if anything, could he have done in the last 50-100 feet to have saved the landing or at least have significantly reduced vertical velocity? It looks like he is coming down very fast. I don't do hook turns so I dont know much about canopy control in this kind of a situation. Although my video is low resolution, it looks like he is in deep brakes during the last 30 feet or so. It is painful to watch.

Absolutely nothing. He was in trouble way before the shots shown on the news.


MB38  (A 48618)

Oct 6, 2006, 12:08 AM
Post #8 of 16 (2690 views)
Shortcut
Re: [377] what could injured Elvis have done to save ldg? [In reply to] Can't Post

Here is an example of what digging out of a very low turn looks like.

I recommend that you take a listen to Brian Germain's interviews on Skydive Radio. In one interview, he touches on what to do in that situation. His book goes into more detail on the subject, I highly recommend it.

I have no first-person experience to draw from on the subject. Listen to those interviews, read the book and make a few hop & pops or CRW jumps to practice saving yourself up high.


Sockpuppet  (Student)

Oct 6, 2006, 4:45 AM
Post #9 of 16 (2648 views)
Shortcut
Re: [piisfish] what could injured Elvis have done to save ldg? [In reply to] Can't Post

Go to foxnews.com and click on video int he top bar. I'll try and post a direct link but dont know if it will be ok as they use javascript and they sometimes dont work.


377  (F 666)

Oct 8, 2006, 12:40 AM
Post #10 of 16 (2472 views)
Shortcut
Re: [MB38] what could injured Elvis have done to save ldg? [In reply to] Can't Post

That video of: "Here is an example of what digging out of a very low turn looks like" is amazing. If shown all but the last second I would have bet on a horrible crash. The recovery is truly at the last possible moment but he pulls it off perfectly. I am not nearly that good so I will stick to 747 airliner type straight approaches for landing.


GreenLight  (D 18859)

Oct 8, 2006, 9:22 AM
Post #11 of 16 (2445 views)
Shortcut
Re: [377] what could injured Elvis have done to save ldg? [In reply to] Can't Post

I saw the video of the crash landing and could not for the life of me believe that someone would use such a small canopy on a DEMO... This was a HUGE mistake (not an accident) in judgement.

Not going to get into it again with all you guys who justify small canopies and swooping but clearly there was bad judgement before the plane even left the ground.


chris_uk  (Student)

Oct 9, 2006, 12:07 AM
Post #12 of 16 (2379 views)
Shortcut
Re: [piisfish] what could injured Elvis have done to save ldg? [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=4946


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Oct 9, 2006, 12:28 AM
Post #13 of 16 (2373 views)
Shortcut
Re: [chris_uk] what could injured Elvis have done to save ldg? [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks. It looks really bad. Crazy


btucker  (E 1974)

Oct 9, 2006, 5:23 AM
Post #14 of 16 (2351 views)
Shortcut
Re: [377] what could injured Elvis have done to save ldg? [In reply to] Can't Post

Let me take a little liberty and cut n past from Brain Germain's web site http://www.bigairsportz.com/art-skilldrills.php


- the context is canopy exercies...


Quote:
Dive Arrest: Toggle Turns

* Place the canopy in a spiral dive using a single steering toggle
* Arrest the dive as quickly as possible by sharply applying the opposite toggle as well as the inside toggle; the inside toggle is not applied until the two are matched in the degree of input. When the toggles are matched, a short stab of collective brake pressure is usually all that is needed to achieve level flight.
* Exercise both banked recovery and wings level recovery.

Why?
Turning too low is the preliminary cause of many injuries in our sport. Unfortunately, most canopy pilots assume that bank angle must be eradicated before arresting the dive. This leads many to waste valuable altitude in the process of leveling the wing. In situations with very little altitude remaining, this may delay the collective brake application until it is too late. By rehearsing a transition to zero decent while still in a bank, the pilot becomes accustomed to applying the toggle on the outside of the turn as a learned instinct, reducing the chances of a turn leading to serious injury.

Dive Arrest: Front Riser Dive

* Place the canopy in a dive using the front risers.
* Rehearse dropping the front risers and quickly stabbing the brakes.
* Rehearse both straight front riser dive recovery as well as turning dives.

Why?
While acceleration on final approach can be great fun and usually leads to longer swoops, the acquisition of speed is not really the hard part. What keeps us alive is the judgment and skills necessary to save us when we dive the canopy too close to the ground. If we rehearse the solutions to the dangers, the likelihood of a dive resulting in serious injury is reduced. Letting the front risers up slowly may be the best way to get a long swoop when the dive is rounded up slowly and with ample altitude. Unfortunately, this muscle memory may not serve us when we are really low. In the time it takes to smoothly let up on the front risers we may find ourselves planted in the ground like a shrubbery. Dropping the front risers allows the pilot to keep their hands down, ready to stab the brakes aggressively to arrest a mortal dive. A short, sharp, shock on the brakes may be all that is necessary to place the jumper back under the wing, and to the higher angle of attack that saves their life.



I like Greenlites' post, the poor chap was in trouble when he got into the aircraft - with that canopy and landing plan.

A mal might have saved him - nice docile large 7cell to land straight in.


(This post was edited by btucker on Oct 9, 2006, 5:24 AM)


JohnMitchell  (D 6462)

Oct 9, 2006, 7:02 AM
Post #15 of 16 (2330 views)
Shortcut
Re: [377] what could injured Elvis have done to save ldg? [In reply to] Can't Post

Another important thing on demos is to plan your landing pattern. This is affected by obstacles, crowds, wind direction, buildings, etc. It's much more difficult than a DZ landing pattern. But unless you plan ahead under canopy and know where you want to go and at what altitudes, you can end up in a very poor position to make a decent landing on target. I think this may have been one of Elvis's mistakes too, then he tried to force a crappy swoop into the landing area.

A well done demo should be a little on the boring side for the skydivers. The crowds will be plenty impressed anyway.


kkeenan  (D 22164)

Oct 9, 2006, 11:02 AM
Post #16 of 16 (2283 views)
Shortcut
Re: [377] what could injured Elvis have done to save ldg? [In reply to] Can't Post

Certainly not relevant, but the "Elvis" hair bouncing across the parking lot is sure a creepy touch in that video...Crazy

Kevin



Forums : Skydiving : Safety and Training

 


Search for (options)