Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
7 cell v 9 cell

 

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WooHoo  (A 48391)

Oct 2, 2006, 1:04 PM
Post #1 of 32 (2390 views)
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7 cell v 9 cell Can't Post

I currently jump a Spectre and really enjoy it. However I am currently buying a new rig, and a number of people have said I will have more fun flying a nine cell.


I am pretty conservative and have no plans to hook turn or swoop, so even though I know there are pros and cons on both sides. Simply from a practical perspective does the 7 cell have any major advantage over the nine cell other than a greater range of flight characteristics ( I couldn't spell maneuverability ( see I told you so!).

I learnt on a Sabre and have jumped a Sabre2, but all the demo conopies have been too small for me to trial, so if I buy ( either a Safire2 or Sabre2) it will be without much experience on them.

Thanks


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Oct 2, 2006, 1:09 PM
Post #2 of 32 (2380 views)
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Re: [WooHoo] 7 cell v 9 cell [In reply to] Can't Post

Well:

a) do a search. This has been discussed a lot.

b) 9 cells tend to glide a bit farther and have a bit more flare, but this varies greatly from canopy to canopy. (For example, a Xaos-21 is technically a 7-cell, but will definitely out-flare a 9 cell Sabre.)

c) 7 cells seem to be a bit more resistant to turbulence.

If you are trying for a docile, easy to land 9 cell, I'd recommend checking out the pilot, safire 2 and sabre 2.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Oct 2, 2006, 1:32 PM
Post #3 of 32 (2351 views)
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Re: [billvon] 7 cell v 9 cell [In reply to] Can't Post

We should have a really poor FAQ even if we have any....Pirate


justinb138  (B 28762)

Oct 2, 2006, 1:41 PM
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Re: [billvon] 7 cell v 9 cell [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

If you are trying for a docile, easy to land 9 cell, I'd recommend checking out the pilot, safire 2 and sabre 2.

I'll mention the Silhouette as well. It open's nice, flies nice, lands nice, and is pretty easy to pack too. Smile


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Oct 2, 2006, 2:03 PM
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Re: [billvon] 7 cell v 9 cell [In reply to] Can't Post

You could add a lightly loaded FCI Sentry to that list too.

It is a good all around canopy and not a bad price.

Matt


JohanW  (D 86318)

Oct 2, 2006, 6:18 PM
Post #6 of 32 (2252 views)
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Re: [WooHoo] 7 cell v 9 cell [In reply to] Can't Post

If you really, really can't demo canopies, and you know you like the Spectre, why not get one? People around you may like 9-cells, but *lots* of people all over the world like Spectres a *lot*, too. They can't all be wrong, right? (Sure they can. But they're not.)

But if you really, really want to, I think you can demo some canopies. It may take time, it may take patience, maybe even a little money, but hey - take all winter. If all of London can't supply you with a demo, come to Holland - Teuge has everything you want. Or just get a cheap ticket to Empuria for Christmas and demo your ass off.

You don't have to make tons of jumps on each canopy - my first and second canopy I basically decided after *one* jump on the respective model (and the first one was a Silhouette - skydiving's best kept secret - and BillVon knows that, firsthand. Bill, how could you forget? Smile )


bob.dino  (E 2185)

Oct 2, 2006, 6:32 PM
Post #7 of 32 (2243 views)
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Re: [WooHoo] 7 cell v 9 cell [In reply to] Can't Post

It's my uninformed opinion that much of the 7 cell vs. 9 cell conventional wisdom comes from the days of F111 mains and doesn't necessarily apply to today's canopies. Next time someone says 7 cell canopies suck, ask them to count the cells on a Velocity...

I did 400+ jumps on my Spectre 190 loaded at ~1.0. It was a great canopy, and I'd highly recommend it.


jheadley  (D 28710)

Oct 2, 2006, 6:52 PM
Post #8 of 32 (2230 views)
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Re: [bob.dino] 7 cell v 9 cell [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It's my uninformed opinion that much of the 7 cell vs. 9 cell conventional wisdom comes from the days of F111 mains and doesn't necessarily apply to today's canopies. Next time someone says 7 cell canopies suck, ask them to count the cells on a Velocity...

I did 400+ jumps on my Spectre 190 loaded at ~1.0. It was a great canopy, and I'd highly recommend it.

I did a couple jumps on a Spectre 150 and LOVED it, after 200 jumps on a Sabre 2 150. It's got probably 90% of the performance of a Sabre 2 with much nicer openings.


NWPoul  (D 178119)

Oct 2, 2006, 10:18 PM
Post #9 of 32 (2190 views)
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Re: [bob.dino] 7 cell v 9 cell [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It's my uninformed opinion that much of the 7 cell vs. 9 cell conventional wisdom comes from the days of F111 mains and doesn't necessarily apply to today's canopies. Next time someone says 7 cell canopies suck, ask them to count the cells on a Velocity...

I did 400+ jumps on my Spectre 190 loaded at ~1.0. It was a great canopy, and I'd highly recommend it.

Second to that,
If you (OP) sure you don't want to swooping that IMO - Spectre the best choice. Very, very nice and fun to fly canopy! deamn you even can swoop it (hovewer don't recommend coz can form a bad habbit to turn low)


AggieDave  (D License)

Oct 2, 2006, 10:28 PM
Post #10 of 32 (2187 views)
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Re: [NWPoul] 7 cell v 9 cell [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
(hovewer don't recommend coz can form a bad habbit to turn low)

Hmmm...It also has a shorter recovery arc that helps you recover when you screw up. A canopy is a canopy and you fly that canopy as efficently as you can. It was amazing to see all of those Stiletto pilots die when the Velo came out, with such a change in recovery arc.

I've seen the Spectre, the Stiletto and the Sabre2 swooped really well. They all have relatively similar recovery arcs (compared to the XF2, Katana, Velo, VX, etc). I've also seen those canopies used by people to learn the basics on before they moved on. I used those canopies to learn before I moved on to more swoop specific canopies. A short recovery arc isn't really a bad thing, it just is what it is and you have to understand that. Especially when transitioning to a canopy, such as a katana, that has a significantly longer recovery arc.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Oct 2, 2006, 11:52 PM
Post #11 of 32 (2173 views)
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Re: [NWPoul] 7 cell v 9 cell [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If you (OP) sure you don't want to swooping that IMO - Spectre the best choice. Very, very nice and fun to fly canopy! deamn you even can swoop it (hovewer don't recommend coz can form a bad habbit to turn low)
Yeah, I can say the same about Pilot, Cobalt.....Pirate

It is no ultimate answer for this other than try and fly them. You have decide by yourself. I've been flying 7cell so nevertheless I prefer 9cell from the beginning.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Oct 3, 2006, 7:19 AM
Post #12 of 32 (2096 views)
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Re: [WooHoo] 7 cell v 9 cell [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll add Triathlon to the list of recommended 7-cell canopies. Very good all-around canopy. The Spectre seems to be PDs answer to the Triathlon and they are very, very similar in flight characteristics. I've flown both and I'd buy either one with price being the deciding factor.

Although, I must say, I would lean more to toward Aerodyne in this chooice between the two because I've heard too many PD reps bad-mouthing all other manufacturers products and I have heard very few other reps bad-mouthing anybody.

Funny how DZs take on a "mind set" with respect to gear.


Premier Remster  (C License)

Oct 3, 2006, 11:09 AM
Post #13 of 32 (2043 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] 7 cell v 9 cell [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
The Spectre seems to be PDs answer to the Triathlon and they are very, very similar in flight characteristics.

More complicated then that....

The Spectre may have been PD's response to the original Tri. Since then, Aerodyne has redesigned it to be what could be called its answer to the Spectre...


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Oct 3, 2006, 11:19 AM
Post #14 of 32 (2037 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] 7 cell v 9 cell [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Funny how DZs take on a "mind set" with respect to gear.

People follow what is obviously working for others. Bonus is the potential for discount rates and being able to easily try out that type.

What's weird to me is how different neighboring DZs can be in this regard - suggesting dealer relationships/promotions can have a strong effect.


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Oct 3, 2006, 11:19 AM
Post #15 of 32 (2037 views)
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Re: [Remster] 7 cell v 9 cell [In reply to] Can't Post

You're speaking of the Triathlon Mod-A of course...somewhat different than the original, yes.

IMHO, an upgrade that really didn't need to happen.


idoru99  (C 34993)

Oct 3, 2006, 2:47 PM
Post #16 of 32 (1997 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] 7 cell v 9 cell [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You're speaking of the Triathlon Mod-A of course...somewhat different than the original, yes.

IMHO, an upgrade that really didn't need to happen.

When did this MOD happen? If you don't mind me asking.


jasonRose  (D 26304)

Oct 3, 2006, 7:30 PM
Post #17 of 32 (1958 views)
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Re: [WooHoo] 7 cell v 9 cell [In reply to] Can't Post

SPECTRE ROCKS!!!CoolCoolCool

All who jump a Spectre rule the sky!!!

I have one and love it. She always takes good care of me


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Oct 3, 2006, 11:18 PM
Post #18 of 32 (1938 views)
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Re: [billvon] 7 cell v 9 cell [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
9 cells tend to glide a bit farther


From PD website:

Newer seven-cells benefit from improved materials and aerodynamics, and retain the advantages of traditional seven-cells while eliminating some of the disadvantages. Some modern seven-cells glide farther than comparable nine-cells. Most nine-cells will still level off or swoop farther when flared, but landings on some seven-cells can easily be just as soft. Seven-cells still tend to pack smaller than nine-cells, and are more agile in deep brakes.


phoenixlpr  (D 3049)

Oct 4, 2006, 12:01 AM
Post #19 of 32 (1929 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] 7 cell v 9 cell [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, some marketing mambo-jumbo.....

I think 7cell vs 9 cell is still a matter of taste.


cobaltdan  (D License)

Oct 4, 2006, 7:22 AM
Post #20 of 32 (1888 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] 7 cell v 9 cell [In reply to] Can't Post

 
a 9 cell will have a higher aspect ratio and lower spanwise distortion than a 7 cell.

therefore a nicely designed 9 cell will always have a higher glide ratio than a nicely designed 7 cell.


yardhippie  (D License)

Oct 4, 2006, 7:32 AM
Post #21 of 32 (1885 views)
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Re: [phoenixlpr] 7 cell v 9 cell [In reply to] Can't Post

I love my '7' cell! Laugh

I've jumped a few tri's over my short career and never really liked em. I started jumping old Sabres early on and anytime I jumped a tri, I just didnt like the performance. Although the openings were always nice compared to a sabre. but pretty much everything had a better opening than a large Sabre I. Laugh


popsjumper  (D 999999999)

Oct 4, 2006, 8:58 AM
Post #22 of 32 (1863 views)
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Re: [idoru99] 7 cell v 9 cell [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
You're speaking of the Triathlon Mod-A of course...somewhat different than the original, yes.

IMHO, an upgrade that really didn't need to happen.

When did this MOD happen? If you don't mind me asking.

Brian...you're a senior rigger and you're asking me? Blush
I have no clue as to when Aerodyne implemented the Mod-A but I'll contact Aerodyne and find out for you, if you like...or better yet, that's something you could do, eh? My Tri's DOM was 2001. The Mod-A Tri's were later, of course.

I'm sure you already know what the Mod-A is and what it does for the canopy/pilot. I learned all about it the hard way and with some teaching from a couple of well-qualified riggers.


(This post was edited by popsjumper on Oct 4, 2006, 9:11 AM)


fcajump  (D 15598)

Oct 4, 2006, 11:36 AM
Post #23 of 32 (1838 views)
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Re: [popsjumper] 7 cell v 9 cell [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Brian...you're a senior rigger and you're asking me? Blush

Jumpers, Riggers (SR and MR) learn where there seems to be knowledge. I like to believe I am a very competent rigger, but hardly know everything about all sport gear... That's why we ask questions. Cool

And POP's folks sometimes remember more than we will know for a long time (and sometimes they can't remember what canopy they're flying at the time Wink)

JW (not POPs... yet...)


MrFreefall383  (A 50074)

Oct 15, 2006, 8:20 AM
Post #24 of 32 (1642 views)
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Re: [fcajump] 7 cell v 9 cell [In reply to] Can't Post

At the risk of starting a new thread and pissing someone off, I want to ask another loosely related question.

I've been offered my first partial set of gear. I'll still have to do some searching to piece it together, but it looks like it's A-game. Rig was built in 1990, reserve's a little older. For those of you who have been in the sport for a long time, here's a good one for you. The reserve is a 7-cell 170 Firelite, pre-dating the entity that is Flight Concepts. Again, summarizing, pre-1990 Firelite 170 7-cell reserve. How's it gonna compare to... say, a PD Reserve of a similar size?


dragon2  (D 101989)

Oct 15, 2006, 1:07 PM
Post #25 of 32 (1614 views)
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Re: [MrFreefall383] 7 cell v 9 cell [In reply to] Can't Post

Presumably it'll handle a lot worse, although
I don't know the firelite design so I ,might be wrong about that. For instance I think the old PdF reserves the transfair and the mayday actually are pretty good even compared to modern techno's and pd-r's.

Anyway, do not load any reserve that old above 1:1 it's not made for it.


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