Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Collapsable slider half hitch

 


alaskaskydiving

Sep 13, 2006, 6:12 PM
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Collapsable slider half hitch Can't Post

I've had my slider kill line on the left side of my slider half hitch around my steering line twice, while I was flying under canopy, in the last months, when I pulled it locked up, if this happened on a hook, I'd probably died, anyone heard of this before?
matt


towerrat  (D 28189)

Sep 13, 2006, 9:14 PM
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Re: [alaskaskydiving] Collapsable slider half hitch [In reply to] Can't Post

first off, filling out your profile will net you more responses.

As to your question, I've seen it before. I was actually just having this conversation with a highly experienced skydiver a few days ago. Stow your shit and it won't happen. I twist mine up in the slider and put the whole thing down behind my neck. It hasn't come out yet, but I am going to have a velcro tab installed to hold my slider on my next repack.


Scrumpot  (D License)

Sep 13, 2006, 9:20 PM
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Re: [alaskaskydiving] Collapsable slider half hitch [In reply to] Can't Post

I've had similar happen once on one of my long draw-string collapsables when leaving the slider above the links and they were able to trail behind so far in the relative wind. Get slinks on your risers so that you can pull the slider all the way down behind your head and securely stow it, #1.

#2:
In reply to:
if this happened on a hook, I'd probably died
This indicates to me that you are using your toggles to hook (toggle-whip hooking)? Bad ju-ju if so indeed, and will kill you soon enough in of itself if not a habit thoroughly broken of!

Hope this helps.
Blues,
-Grant


mattaman  (D 20957)

Sep 13, 2006, 10:03 PM
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Re: [Scrumpot] Collapsable slider half hitch [In reply to] Can't Post

Not toggle whipping, not that stupid, matt


GreenMachine  (D 26585)

Sep 14, 2006, 6:35 AM
Post #5 of 24 (1190 views)
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Re: [towerrat] Collapsable slider half hitch [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Towerrat,

Before you go the velcro route, let me share with you what I do with my slider. I have slinks so I can pull the slider down. My risers have an RSL ring but my rig does not (because I fly camera). So once I collapse the slider I pull a piece of the cord through the RSL ring and make a small knot. Not sure the name of the knot but it is simple to do with one hand in about a second and easy to undo when packing. This way my slider stays down and out of the way, without the damage that velcro can do to threads/fabric.

Best part, God forbid I have a low altitude problem and need to cutaway, my slider is connect to the risers so it would go away.

All of my friends who use the shock cord and ball attached to the reserve flap say that it would yank right off but still I find this simpler and easier.


dontiego  (C License)

Sep 14, 2006, 7:15 AM
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Re: [GreenMachine] Collapsable slider half hitch [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

All of my friends who use the shock cord and ball attached to the reserve flap say that it would yank right off ...

Have they actually tried it on the ground?
Result?


wmw999  (D 6296)

Sep 14, 2006, 7:21 AM
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Re: [mattaman] Collapsable slider half hitch [In reply to] Can't Post

You have 2 accounts, it looks like. You want to pick one and stick with it; DZ.com rules kinda sorta say one account per person.

That's why folks are confused, too.

Wendy W.


GreenMachine  (D 26585)

Sep 14, 2006, 9:32 AM
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Re: [dontiego] Collapsable slider half hitch [In reply to] Can't Post

Dontiego,

I have never seen any of my friends cutaway and fire their reserve on the ground to test their slider stowing method.

After packing some reserves myself, I think the spring would be strong enough to get past it, but I'd rather not chance it myself.

I have heard them argue that they would not stow their slider until they KNOW they are going to keep the wing they got.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Sep 14, 2006, 9:50 AM
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Re: [GreenMachine] Collapsable slider half hitch [In reply to] Can't Post

Agreed!
Any method of attaching a slider to your jumpsuit or container is so "last century!"

There are a variety of Slocks and slider catchers that attach sliders - near the bottom of risers - that do the same job, quicker, neater and with less chance of hang-up after a low-altitude cutaway.

Hint: the ball and bungee combination has been banned in France and they are trying to ban any form of Velcro sewn to a collar or container.


NWPoul  (D 178119)

Sep 14, 2006, 10:47 PM
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Re: [riggerrob] Collapsable slider half hitch [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Agreed!
Any method of attaching a slider to your jumpsuit or container is so "last century!"

There are a variety of Slocks and slider catchers that attach sliders - near the bottom of risers - that do the same job, quicker, neater and with less chance of hang-up after a low-altitude cutaway.

Yes, but I found that when I pull slider down behind my head, the slider's rings remain "in the plase" without any slider stoppers on risers however what annoing - is that the center part of slider is flapping and came up to the helmet and...

So (at least in my case):
1. Stoppers at the risers
a) not needed
b) don't do their job as I want to

2. Ball and bungee (Mil spec. large rubber band, sliced on 1/2)
a) work just fine:)
b) easy to make (don't need to sew anything)
c) you even don't need to collapsing your slider - just roll the center few times and stow it!Cool so no any trailing cords and you dont need to cock it after landingCool
d) It's damn cool to contrive the answers on newbee's Q's "What for this ball???" "-It's my reserve PC hacky dude! in case if silver fail"

In reply to:
Hint: the ball and bungee combination has been banned in France and they are trying to ban any form of Velcro sewn to a collar or container.
that sucksFrown

P/S Saw somewhere here:
Quote:
Never tie the collapsing cords around your neck after pulling slider down...if you'll need to cutawayl you'll be sorry...very sorry
Laugh


(This post was edited by NWPoul on Sep 14, 2006, 11:03 PM)


dontiego  (C License)

Sep 15, 2006, 4:03 AM
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Re: [GreenMachine] Collapsable slider half hitch [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Dontiego,

I have never seen any of my friends cutaway and fire their reserve on the ground to test their slider stowing method.

After packing some reserves myself, I think the spring would be strong enough to get past it, but I'd rather not chance it myself.

I have heard them argue that they would not stow their slider until they KNOW they are going to keep the wing they got.

mmm, I meant just cutaway and see if the slider stays on the rig and prevent the main from going away. You dont need to fire the reserve.

I see three possible scenarios:
- the rubber band breaks, and the main goes away
- the rubber band does not release and the slider is kept on the rig after cutaway, preventing the main from leaving
- the same as above but the risers go all the way through the slider grommets and the main leaves

In the second case you have a main left over you reserve flap when you have to open the reserve (not good), in the third case you have only the slider left (not so good either).

Am I being stupid?


inextremis  (D 6498)

Sep 15, 2006, 4:34 AM
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Re: [alaskaskydiving] Collapsable slider half hitch [In reply to] Can't Post

I actually once managed to grab the left slider kill line in my toggle hand and not realize it untl my flare (Spectre, so a long flare stroke). I had done a controllability check with turns in both directions and the canopy was flying normally, but as my hands went down to just above my waist in the flare, I felt the tug on my left riser. My landing was fine, but would not have been on many canopies. At that point I got rid of my slider stops--had been thinking about that for performance reasons anyway--and now stow my slider behind my neck.


NWPoul  (D 178119)

Sep 15, 2006, 5:32 AM
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Re: [dontiego] Collapsable slider half hitch [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
...
- the same as above but the risers go all the way through the slider grommets and the main leaves

In the second case you have a main left over you reserve flap when you have to open the reserve (not good), in the third case you have only the slider left (not so good either).
...

Just can't imagine thisUnsure


GreenMachine  (D 26585)

Sep 15, 2006, 6:11 AM
Post #14 of 24 (1040 views)
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Re: [dontiego] Collapsable slider half hitch [In reply to] Can't Post

Que Pasa Dontiego,

Nah, you aren't being stupid, you are thinking about the possible consequences of certain choices, which is great. Only problem is you are not thinking it through.

Coefficient of drag describes the concept that objects moving in a non-vacuum environment are acted upon by the media they are flowing through. Think of dragging a body behind a boat. There is a lot of drag. Now more related to this matter, think of dragging a pilot chute through air....

OKAY, now compare the estimated drag from a pilot chute versus a whole canopy. The PC has enough drag to open your container and unstow your lines and often break rubber bands. Hence I think an entire inflated canopy has enough drag to break one rubber band. Of course there is more kinetic energy when traveling at terminal then at canopy speed but....

Well you get the idea. I think a departing main would probably remove most slider stowage methods I have seen BUT honestly I feel my method is simpler, easier, and avoids one more potential hazard.


CrazyL  (D 17699)

Sep 15, 2006, 7:18 AM
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Re: [riggerrob] Collapsable slider half hitch [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
chance of hang-up after a low-altitude cutaway.

Hint: the ball and bungee combination has been banned in France and they are trying to ban any form of Velcro sewn to a collar or container.
It's about freak'n time. Too many of even top swoopers still have not tested their ball n bungee, velcro gadget on the ground. I won't mention names but when a certain individual arrived in the states in the late 90's, he was jumping a Racer with a 1" velcro thingy hand tacked to the yoke of the rig to hold down his slider (hand stitching was pulling apart). Observant me met the fella as I ridiculed his slider device. I ask him to allow he and i to test this device on the ground. Well, he did'nt speak any english, communication was difficult. So the rig was lying there unpacked shortly after being jumped, slider still in the velco thingy. I had him hold down the container ready to pull the cutaway handle, I held tension on the canopy tugging like tug 0 war, he cutaway, the 3 rings released , the velcro held, the slider stayed in the velcro thingy, even the crappy hand tack did'nt give in. I feel the trade off for airspeed vs. life was'nt worth it. If you'd like to hear another story of a fella who did have the worst case scenario using such device resulting in one side of his body being totally broken, I got it.


CrazyL  (D 17699)

Sep 15, 2006, 7:52 AM
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Re: [dontiego] Collapsable slider half hitch [In reply to] Can't Post

Keep on thinking it through bro! This season, at a new to me dz, several fellas have the ball n bungee device. So I ask some of the fellas if they had tested it, ' what do you mean' was a reply, ' that little rubber band is going to break, i'm not that worried about it' was another reply. I tell ya , some people are so freak'n smart they will even believe their own false assumptions, they can make it, install it, but don't even know or care how to test it. One of the fellas was interested in testing his device, I helped him, The first test resulted in the device holding the slider, as the rubber band stretched out a few inches and a couple of yanks later it released. He tried another type of rubber band, the next test the device released as he thought it would. Cosistency, I don't think so. I have also visited with a few container manufacturers here in the states regarding such devices on their gear. One of my questions to each manufacturer was ' will you make your rig with this type of device already on your rig' . Can you guess the answer. It was no. Should I certify the rig as airworthy avery 120 days with such device installed on the gear, the answer was 'no'. So, I have customers that know that my point of view and still use me as their rigger, even though they get their gear back with such device removed from their gear. Have you ever seen me fly a parachute? I don't use such a device, my slider is in the way, i must be at a disadvantage. If you have seen me land my parachute , you probably said or thought ' holy shi*** that was crazy'. At a 1.5 wingloading I can still touchdown at speeds of 50 - 60 mph with style and grace on a regular basis. My swoops max out at 100 yards or so, even at a 1.5 wingloading, under an old rag, non-crossbraced, 2500+ jumps, 4 th reline, with double kill line collapsible slider with a slider pocket that stays inflated even when the slider is collapsed and in the way, not even using the rear risers, I still swoop harder and farther with more style and grace and tricks than most boys with crossbraced canopies at 2.0 and higher wingloading. So, in the end, my suggestion to you is: Learn to fly what you have, no extra gadgets other than what the manufacturer supplied, there is alot to learn.


psychoswooper  (D License)

Sep 15, 2006, 5:17 PM
Post #17 of 24 (979 views)
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Re: [greenmachine] Collapsable slider half hitch [In reply to] Can't Post

 
In the 3rd example just HOW exactly do the risers go all the way through the slider grommets?

You're not thinking it through.


(This post was edited by psychoswooper on Sep 15, 2006, 5:24 PM)


CrazyL  (D 17699)

Sep 15, 2006, 6:46 PM
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Re: [psychoswooper] Collapsable slider half hitch [In reply to] Can't Post

yep


GreenMachine  (D 26585)

Sep 16, 2006, 5:48 AM
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Re: [psychoswooper] Collapsable slider half hitch [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey CrazyL,

Just so you know, since I spoke with PsychoSwooper on the phone last and she already knows....

Dontiego is the guy with an A license and 98 jumps who mistakenly thought the risers could go completely through the grommets of the slider.

Obviously this can NOT happen because they are attached on the base, which is why one 3 ring per riser works both front and back...

PsychoSwooper mistakenly thought I had posted it because the text was in green.

Okay, the record is clear, now I can quit typing and go jumping. Hope everyone has a great Saturday, the weather looks nice here in Tallahassee so if any one is reading this at 8:30ish AM come on out and jump with us!Smile


CrazyL  (D 17699)

Sep 16, 2006, 6:09 PM
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Re: [GreenMachine] Collapsable slider half hitch [In reply to] Can't Post

Jumpadeejumpajumpayourassoffbro!!! We've had a great weekend here at the Ranch, skies cleared at 11 am, we been jump'n our butts off. It's all good.


dontiego  (C License)

Sep 27, 2006, 7:01 AM
Post #21 of 24 (846 views)
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Re: [psychoswooper] Collapsable slider half hitch [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In the 3rd example just HOW exactly do the risers go all the way through the slider grommets?

You're not thinking it through.

That's perfectly right.
Had a bad day :)


dontiego  (C License)

Sep 27, 2006, 7:05 AM
Post #22 of 24 (844 views)
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Re: [dontiego] Collapsable slider half hitch [In reply to] Can't Post

Alright, my bad about the 3rd point.

It was interesting to hear that some of these devices failed to release, thanks for these replies!

I guess there are some specifications about how much weight our rubber bands should support before breaking?
The problem being that it changes a lot with age...


N24

Sep 27, 2006, 12:58 PM
Post #23 of 24 (815 views)
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Re: [dontiego] Collapsable slider half hitch [In reply to] Can't Post

Maybee a Solution !!???

http://p4961.typo3server.info/...s/Sliderhaken_01.jpg

Text from the Manufacturer:
"Riserbarbs

Fed up with your slider moving up the risers all the time ?

No problem, we have a nice, slick solution for this problem

Just tuck your front slider grommets under the barbs, done deal.

Our riser barbs are sewn onto the lower end of your front risers by your rigger or by us.

This kit comes for only . 5,00 plus postage.
"


jasides  (D 24312)

Sep 27, 2006, 5:37 PM
Post #24 of 24 (796 views)
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Re: [alaskaskydiving] Collapsable slider half hitch [In reply to] Can't Post

If you pull your slider all the way down to the V in your risers and have some kind of slider keeper on your rig (velcro or rubberband), it will keep the kill lines from the slider out of the way. i have been jumping with a rubberband keeper for my slider on my rig for about 2000 jumps and have never had a problem.



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