Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Photography and Video:
Ring site ?

 


SkyFrog  (D 26694)

Jun 28, 2001, 10:20 AM
Post #1 of 12 (2087 views)
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Ring site ? Can't Post

I just mounter a "L bracket" on my Bone Head
and it seems to get what ever I look at.....is there
a advange to get a ring site ? It seems like I could spend my
monsy on jumps and/or a wide angle lens...insted



Premier quade  (D 22635)
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Jun 28, 2001, 11:12 AM
Post #2 of 12 (2071 views)
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Re: Ring site ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Depends on what you're shooting, where you're shooting it and what your skill level is.

If you're jumping fun freefly with some buddies and are always right in their faces, then you may not need a ring sight.

If you're jumping serious 4-way competition (or almost any competition for that matter), you probably do need a ring sight. I know of NO serious RW camera flyers that shoot without some sort of ring sight. Some set-ups are quite elaborate.

As a couple more points of reference, Marcus Heggli jumps a side mount with little more than a dot on his unglasses. He's obviously a pro and can shoot perfect skysurf this way. On the other hand, Craig O'Brien jumps a Bonehead Batrack with a concentric ring sight and is currently in first place at the World Air Games also shooting skysurf.

Check out OB's rather elaborate set up at;
http://www.omniskore.com/comp/2001/wag/teams_pics/sk_w_usa.htm


Paul


futurecam.com/skydive.html


SkyFrog  (D 26694)

Jul 8, 2001, 12:20 PM
Post #3 of 12 (2018 views)
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Re: Ring site ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Humm Thanx....
Maby I will keep that site I was going to sending it back...





FreeFlyFreaky  (D 25710)

Jul 9, 2001, 9:43 PM
Post #4 of 12 (2000 views)
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Re: Ring site ? [In reply to] Can't Post

SkyFrog,

I have found that a paper ring reinforcer (the circular stick-on jobbies for reinforcing torn paper holes) mounted on the inside of my goggles works just fine as a ring sight.

I mounted one on the inside of the left lens. To align it I turned on the camera and ran around the house videoing different objects, large and small, near and not too far. To center it I had to reposition it a couple of times to get it just right but it was a very simple procedure.

My videography improved on the very first jump.

This was certainly NOT my idea. Lots of guys at my DZ have been using the same method. Actually, only a couple of guys use ring sights.

Safety wise the benefits are obvious. Money wise...well, you can buy a lifetime supply for about $.69.

Be safe,

Whit






Skycam3  (D 23769)

Jul 11, 2001, 4:07 PM
Post #5 of 12 (1974 views)
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Re: Ring site ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Forget the ring site, learn to "shoot the picture". It might take longer to get good pics, but there is one less thing for a line to snag on. If you get used to a ring site, you'll need it. If you don't have one to begin with, you won't need one. Comes down to personal prefrence.

Blue Skies and Long Swoops,

T-



Premier quade  (D 22635)
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Jul 11, 2001, 11:01 PM
Post #6 of 12 (1967 views)
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Re: Ring site ? [In reply to] Can't Post

How does one "shoot the picture" without knowing exactly what one is looking at? Does ya mean just shoot at random and -hope- you're pointed in the right direction?

Here's the deal. Camera helmets move and so do goggles. No matter how hard you try, they're NOT going to be perfectly aligned because everytime you put them on, you're putting them on a couple of degrees differently than the last time you put them on.

Now, depending on the type of shooting you do, that may not be that big of a deal, but for some things it's absolutely critical.

I shoot competition 4-way. A couple of degrees off and the framing sucks and it's a non-judgeable point. Hell, it's hard enough -with- the sight. I can't even imagine trying to do it without one.


Paul

futurecam.com/skydive.html


Skycam3  (D 23769)

Jul 12, 2001, 6:06 AM
Post #7 of 12 (1965 views)
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Re: Ring site ? [In reply to] Can't Post

If you shoot 4-way, run a .6 wide angle, get about 8-10 feet above them and put your head in the burble. Not your whole body, just your head. Certain turns are going to move and slide, you just have to know what it will do. When I started shooting vids about 1000 jumps ago, the people that were training me told me not to use a ring site. If you have see the Quincy video for 99, one of the people that taught me shot about 80% of that. He is also the head videographer for this year at quincy. You don't just "hope" your pics turn out(I should have explainned better, sorry), you have to know where the camera is pointed. It comes with time. No ring site also keeps you from getting tunnel vision and allows you to see the big picture without pointing you head there(pereferial(sp) vision). When you start shooting other things, this will help you to see other shots that are outside your ring site. Hope ths helps.

Blue Skies and Long Swoops,

Tony



Premier quade  (D 22635)
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Jul 12, 2001, 9:26 AM
Post #8 of 12 (1960 views)
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Re: Ring site ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Geeze Tony --

I don't wanna get into a battle of statistics here, but if you look at the 4-way teams that -win- I think you'll see that virtually all of them have camera flyers that use ring sights.

Airzona Airspeed - Marc Steinbaugh - ring sight
France Maubeuge - Laurent Pechberty - ring sight

Lemme see, how about skysurf?
Perris Firestarter - Craig O'Brien - ring sight
Wait a minute, here's a picture of OB's set up;
http://www.omniskore.com/comp/2001/wag/teams_pics/sk_w_usa.htm

Uh, what about "professional" film camera flyers?
Ray Cottingham - ring sight (one of the -first- camera flyers and still one of the best)
Tom Sanders - ring sight (Hmmm, I thought HE did the Quincy video as well as a lot of James Bond stuff.)
Brent Finley - ring sight (Hell he MAKES them and was published more often in Parachutist over the last 12 months than anybody else.)

There must be -some- reason it's a good idea. ;^)


Paul

futurecam.com/skydive.html


Skycam3  (D 23769)

Jul 12, 2001, 8:48 PM
Post #9 of 12 (1947 views)
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Re: Ring site ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quade,

Didn't mean to upset you, glad he got to see both sides of the story. If you jump a ring site, carry a hook knife. We have had some deaths because of ring sites, don't want to have any more. By the way, Tim Hanrahan shot most of Quincy 99, Tom Sanders produced it.

Blue Skies and Long Swoops,

Tony



Premier quade  (D 22635)
Moderator
Jul 17, 2001, 10:23 AM
Post #10 of 12 (1921 views)
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Re: Ring site ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Tony --

Not really upset, but I agree that since the two accidents this year, people have gone sour on ring sights as a safety issue. People have been using them for years and, yes, they've been an issue for years, but I personally don't see how you can get around using one when it comes to quality, tightly framed, video. The kind you need for good judgable 4-way.

When it comes to safety and entanglements on camera gear of all types, probably nothing beats a stable deployment. It goes a long way in keeping nasty stuff from happening. By the way, unstable deployments were -probably- the root cause of both accidents this year. However, I also agree with you about having a hook knife handy. Stuff happens.

What I find hysterical about the issue is that a LOT of folks that avoid ring sights because of entanglement, seem to have not looked at the rest of their camera gear. It's almost impossible to make a camera helmet without some sort of do-hicky sticking out somewhere that's able to get caught on a line. Sure, you -want- to make it as safe as possible, but if you really wanted to be safe, you wouldn't get out of bed, so, it's all a matter of what you're willing to accept or avoid.


Paul

futurecam.com/skydive.html


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jul 18, 2001, 9:43 AM
Post #11 of 12 (1903 views)
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Re: Ring site ? [In reply to] Can't Post

If you are going to use a paper ring reinforcement stuck to your goggles, copy Steve Best's trick. Steve has a tiny laser pointer taped paralax to his camera. In the plane he dons his helmet and goggles, turns on his laser pointer, then wiggles things til the red dot on the wall and the sight line up.



Premier quade  (D 22635)
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Jul 18, 2001, 3:39 PM
Post #12 of 12 (1893 views)
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Re: Ring sight - laser sight [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually, the addition of a laser sight isn't a bad idea as a quick sanity check on a ring sight either. I used to have a cheapo one hooked up so that I could check to see if the ring sight had been bumped or not. At one time it seemed like just about everyone shooting camera at Perris had one, but as a fad. Lasers have kind of faded from our drop zone.

The problem with the addition of a laser is that it adds another variable into the parallax issue. The little laser pointers that are popular for this sort of thing are also a little difficult to keep centered just by using gaff tape, so then you're back to square one in wondering if things are lined up or not. I've thought of getting an actual laser sight with h&v adjustments like used on guns, but they seem a bit pricy (~$150ish?) just for a sanity check.

Besides that, if you're not aiming at a very distant target (30ish ft?) then you're -probably- inducing a noticeable parallax error in the overall sighting -- fine if you're sitting on the rear bench of the Twin Otter aiming at the front bulkhead, but a bit silly if you're just aiming across the short side of the cabin.

At some point, I'll have to write a little article on how I go about lining up my sight. A bit more trouble than most folks are probably willing to go through, but I think it's also a bit more precise and can be done by one person.


Paul

futurecam.com/skydive.html



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