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Main Riser Covers Not Opening

 

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WooHoo  (A 48391)

Aug 30, 2006, 9:02 AM
Post #1 of 32 (2803 views)
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Main Riser Covers Not Opening Can't Post

I met a girl who told me she bought a new rig, (a Vector 3) and on her first jump the riser covers did not open, so she was at an awkward angle, and did not cutaway as the canopy was open and she was able (just) to steer it.

She thought it may have been a packing error, or that the fabric bing so new , simply offered too much resistance and therefore did not have enough energy to make the riser covers release. Either way it spooked her, and though she continued to jump with the rig, said that changed it as a result shortly thereafter.

I have just ordered a new Vector 3 and love them, so this I think was a packing error.

Either way out of gereral curiosity, I wondered if that happened to anyone on any rig, would it not make a cutaway redundant as, the main risers are effectively held in place by the downward pressure of the covers. ( I hope that makes sense.)

Also I was wondering if anyone has ever experienced this scenario, and if so what was your course of action.

I had never heard of this before, and just got into a wondering state of mind.



[I've drunk nine beers, eight tequila slammers and half a quart of Jack Daniels, plus you'll notice I can't stand up, and you ask me if I've been drinking officer... of course I've been drinking, "]


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Aug 30, 2006, 9:19 AM
Post #2 of 32 (2774 views)
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Re: [WooHoo] Main Riser Covers Not Opening [In reply to] Can't Post

>would it not make a cutaway redundant as, the main risers are
>effectively held in place by the downward pressure of the covers.

Depends on the design. If the small ring is covered by the flap, and it's exerting a lot of pressure on the small ring, it may not release. However, if the small ring _is_ clear, it is very likely to clear the riser cover when you cut away.

>Also I was wondering if anyone has ever experienced this scenario,
>and if so what was your course of action.

Yeah, on the first Reflexes, sometimes the main riser covers wouldn't release when the rig was brand new. After they got "broken in" they were fine. The only real problem we saw was when one would release and one wouldn't; you'd have to hold some brake to keep the canopy going straight. On heavily loaded canopies (say around 2:1) that alone could cause a mal.


kelel01  (A License)

Aug 30, 2006, 9:23 AM
Post #3 of 32 (2769 views)
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Re: [billvon] Main Riser Covers Not Opening [In reply to] Can't Post

If the opening force of the canopy can't release the riser covers, is it something a person would be able to do with their hands while under canopy?


idlewild70  (C 37595)

Aug 30, 2006, 9:49 AM
Post #4 of 32 (2735 views)
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Re: [WooHoo] Main Riser Covers Not Opening [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know about the Vector 3, but on my wings i can pack a mal like that. If i were to pack the main riser under the tab the seperates the main and reserve risers, it effectively locks the riser covers in place. I guess thats why the flap has a lable on it that says to make sure that the risers go on top. Does anyone know if the vector has the same warning label?


AFFI  (D 25538)

Aug 30, 2006, 10:02 AM
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Re: [idlewild70] Main Riser Covers Not Opening [In reply to] Can't Post

My vector has a similar warning label as you describe...


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
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Aug 30, 2006, 10:05 AM
Post #6 of 32 (2715 views)
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Re: [kelel01] Main Riser Covers Not Opening [In reply to] Can't Post

>is it something a person would be able to do with their hands while under canopy?

I could do it on the Reflex. Vector? I don't know.


AFFI  (D 25538)

Aug 30, 2006, 10:31 AM
Post #7 of 32 (2693 views)
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Re: [WooHoo] Main Riser Covers Not Opening [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps you could contack Rel Wkshp with your concerns - hell BillB is in the forums, maybe you can just PM him. Had BillV not chimed in about the Reflex I would think it highly unlikely that this occoured in the first place.

The Vector system is a well engineered container, hell there are many well engineered containers on the market these days and it is difficult for me to imagine that flap staying closed throughout the forces applied during the opening.

Curious to learn more.


JumpRu  (D License)

Aug 30, 2006, 10:33 AM
Post #8 of 32 (2690 views)
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Re: [WooHoo] Main Riser Covers Not Opening [In reply to] Can't Post

i saw that same thing happen on vector 3 after incorrect closing of riser covers. Riser was under both flaps.


diablopilot  (D License)

Aug 30, 2006, 10:39 AM
Post #9 of 32 (2686 views)
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Re: [WooHoo] Main Riser Covers Not Opening [In reply to] Can't Post

I've seen the same thing occurr on a couple of Vector 3's. At least once was packing error, and the other was a mall that was cleared by reaching over a shoulder and tugging the flap open. Both were new rigs.

I personaly have had it happen twice on Sigma Tandem rigs with light weight students that were brand new, packed correctly, and happened to be pretty early serial numbers. Both were cleared by reaching over the shoulder and poping the cover free.


IanHarrop  (C 1152)

Aug 30, 2006, 11:46 AM
Post #10 of 32 (2640 views)
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Re: [WooHoo] Main Riser Covers Not Opening [In reply to] Can't Post

I have a friend with a new Mirage that had the same problem a month ago.
Working the fabric loosened things up and the problem went away.


Rdy2skydive

Aug 30, 2006, 11:48 AM
Post #11 of 32 (2640 views)
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Re: [WooHoo] Main Riser Covers Not Opening [In reply to] Can't Post

I too have had this happen to me on my Wings container. Pretty scary when you have less than 30 jumps - the canopy actually opened out in front of me and I ended up in a belly-to-earth position. I was able to fix it by pulling on the risers. I don't know what made me decide to try that - it just seemed logical.

I wasn't always packing for myself, but I noticed that it always happened when I had someone pack for me. It was always easy to fix, and now when someone else packs for me, I always lift the riser covers to check the risers aren't tucked underneath anything - not everyone sees the warning label.

It's startling when it happens but it's never been a major problem.


sundevil777  (D License)

Aug 30, 2006, 12:48 PM
Post #12 of 32 (2607 views)
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Re: [idlewild70] Main Riser Covers Not Opening [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I don't know about the Vector 3, but on my wings i can pack a mal like that. If i were to pack the main riser under the tab the seperates the main and reserve risers, it effectively locks the riser covers in place. I guess thats why the flap has a lable on it that says to make sure that the risers go on top. Does anyone know if the vector has the same warning label?

Kelly F. confirmed for me that the Infinity has no problem with the main risers under both flaps (I have always used it that way). I asked after seeing the warning label on the wings.


(This post was edited by sundevil777 on Aug 30, 2006, 12:49 PM)


fcajump  (D 15598)

Aug 30, 2006, 1:10 PM
Post #13 of 32 (2592 views)
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Re: [WooHoo] Main Riser Covers Not Opening [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I met a girl who told me she bought a new rig, (a Vector 3) and on her first jump the riser covers did not open, so she was at an awkward angle, and did not cutaway as the canopy was open and she was able (just) to steer it.

She thought it may have been a packing error, or that the fabric bing so new , simply offered too much resistance and therefore did not have enough energy to make the riser covers release. Either way it spooked her, and though she continued to jump with the rig, said that changed it as a result shortly thereafter.

I have just ordered a new Vector 3 and love them, so this I think was a packing error.

Either way out of gereral curiosity, I wondered if that happened to anyone on any rig, would it not make a cutaway redundant as, the main risers are effectively held in place by the downward pressure of the covers. ( I hope that makes sense.)

Also I was wondering if anyone has ever experienced this scenario, and if so what was your course of action.

I had never heard of this before, and just got into a wondering state of mind.

I would be slightly concerned about pulling the cutaway in this situation. Might be that the main would not leave cleanly (or at all until very low). I am thinking that a fully deployed and flying canopy is to be worked with... seems like most replies address the correct approach, that of pulling at the offending covers.

The Vector 3's I have seen all have the notice concerning riser/flap order.

Blue ones,
Jim


jurgencamps  (D License)

Aug 30, 2006, 1:46 PM
Post #14 of 32 (2574 views)
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Re: [JumpRu] Main Riser Covers Not Opening [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
i saw that same thing happen on vector 3 after incorrect closing of riser covers. Riser was under both flaps.

Happened to a belgian skydiver in Spain. Packing error by the packer. The packer had put it under the flaps of his reserverisers. There was no label on these flaps on his older vector 3.
It caused a spinning main (uneven risers, only one was trapped). I think (but I am not sure) that he did a cutaway but that the riser was stuck under the flap and that he had to grab the riser before it cleared.
I 'll ask him. It happened a few months ago.

Jurgen


labrys  (D 29848)

Aug 31, 2006, 9:45 PM
Post #15 of 32 (2410 views)
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Re: [WooHoo] Main Riser Covers Not Opening [In reply to] Can't Post

This happened to me with a brand new Vector 3. I didn't have many jumps on it yet and the main risers were stowed under the middle flap by mistake.

My rig has a warning label that instructs that the main risers be stowed above the middle flap. I know someone else with an older V3 that doesn't have the warning label, but says that the manual that came with it warns to stow the main risers above the middle flap for the first 50 jumps on the rig.

I guess somewhere between his rig and newer ones RWS decided that it was never a good idea to stow the main risers under the middle flap...

In my case, I cut away without knowng what the problem was exactly. My head was pinned down and I thought the risers were twisted behind my head. When I talked to the friend that packed my rig for me that day and my rigger later I realized that the flaps had been stuck.

I guess that the sudden change of angle on the risers after the cutaway allowed the riser covers to open and the risers to clear.

It seems that making a mistake stowing the risers on a new V3 isn't so brilliant an idea. Blush


jheadley  (D 28710)

Sep 1, 2006, 7:07 AM
Post #16 of 32 (2363 views)
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Re: [WooHoo] Main Riser Covers Not Opening [In reply to] Can't Post

I've seen this happen with a new Racer, too. Even when it was packed correctly.

It stopped doing it when it was broken in though.


(This post was edited by jheadley on Sep 1, 2006, 7:10 AM)


Para5-0  (D 19054)

Sep 4, 2006, 7:57 PM
Post #17 of 32 (2240 views)
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Re: [jheadley] Main Riser Covers Not Opening [In reply to] Can't Post

I witnessed exact same thing, but the new jumper decided to land the weird config by correcting the spin wioth opposite input all the way to landing.......When I inspected the rig the riser was caught under the flap with the warning label...NOTE the warning label is not on both so a quick pack job by a packer or someone not paying attention, could cause this malfunction.......be carefull ...


CrazyL  (D 17699)

Sep 6, 2006, 8:37 PM
Post #18 of 32 (2162 views)
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Re: [WooHoo] Main Riser Covers Not Opening [In reply to] Can't Post

My Infinity riser covers work great and are difficult for a packer to mess up, and I can pack it blind folded in less than 10 minutes.


DocPop  (C License)

Oct 11, 2010, 5:38 PM
Post #19 of 32 (1906 views)
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Re: [sundevil777] Main Riser Covers Not Opening [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Kelly F. confirmed for me that the Infinity has no problem with the main risers under both flaps (I have always used it that way). I asked after seeing the warning label on the wings.

I have experienced very off heading openings with my Katana in my Infinity when I put the risers under both flaps. This problem was resolved by stowing them on top of the one set of flaps (as you would with a Wings etc).

What is VSE's actual recommendation on this as the manual does not seem to address it?


sundevil777  (D License)

Oct 11, 2010, 6:00 PM
Post #20 of 32 (1886 views)
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Re: [DocPop] Main Riser Covers Not Opening [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Kelly F. confirmed for me that the Infinity has no problem with the main risers under both flaps (I have always used it that way). I asked after seeing the warning label on the wings.

I have experienced very off heading openings with my Katana in my Infinity when I put the risers under both flaps. This problem was resolved by stowing them on top of the one set of flaps (as you would with a Wings etc).

What is VSE's actual recommendation on this as the manual does not seem to address it?

As I said, I talked to Kelly about it. He is VSE.


skydiverek  (C 952)

Oct 12, 2010, 2:50 AM
Post #21 of 32 (1828 views)
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Re: [WooHoo] Main Riser Covers Not Opening [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I met a girl who told me she bought a new rig, (a Vector 3) and on her first jump the riser covers did not open, so she was at an awkward angle, and did not cutaway as the canopy was open and she was able (just) to steer it.

Bill Booth talks about a similar case here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSVRSIicQDk


Cueb  (C License)

Oct 12, 2010, 3:33 AM
Post #22 of 32 (1815 views)
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Re: [skydiverek] Main Riser Covers Not Opening [In reply to] Can't Post

I've also heard of a case where covers didn't release on wings after packing it wrong. Cut it away no problem.


P-dro

Oct 12, 2010, 4:28 AM
Post #23 of 32 (1797 views)
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Re: [jurgencamps] Main Riser Covers Not Opening [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
It caused a spinning main (uneven risers, only one was trapped). I think (but I am not sure) that he did a cutaway but that the riser was stuck under the flap and that he had to grab the riser before it cleared.
I 'll ask him. It happened a few months ago.

Jurgen
Happened to a lady friend of mine with a brand new Javelin, same error: packed under reserve risers, even though there is a warning label.
The two covers remained in place, she was in an awkward position, she cut away, but everything stayed in Pirateplace. By chance she landed that way (she wasn't very heavy.
They were able to reproduce the incident on the ground. scary.....


piisfish

Oct 12, 2010, 6:29 AM
Post #24 of 32 (1743 views)
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Re: [P-dro] Main Riser Covers Not Opening [In reply to] Can't Post

another case of RTFM...
maybe we should ban riser covers Smile


wayneflorida  (D 30566)

Oct 12, 2010, 6:38 AM
Post #25 of 32 (1739 views)
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Re: [P-dro] Main Riser Covers Not Opening [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
It caused a spinning main (uneven risers, only one was trapped). I think (but I am not sure) that he did a cutaway but that the riser was stuck under the flap and that he had to grab the riser before it cleared.
I 'll ask him. It happened a few months ago.

Jurgen
Happened to a lady friend of mine with a brand new Javelin, same error: packed under reserve risers, even though there is a warning label.
The two covers remained in place, she was in an awkward position, she cut away, but everything stayed in Pirateplace. By chance she landed that way (she wasn't very heavy.
They were able to reproduce the incident on the ground. scary.....


Had a packer place my main risers under the reserve riser flaps on my javelin. Upon opening my head was pinned down and at first thought I had riser twists, but I could tell with my hands the riser weren't twisted and brakes were still set. At first I thought about cutting away but I had altitude and I could tell canopy was flying straight and probably ok.
Out of the corner of my eye I saw how the risers were stuck and gave each a tug with my hand and they became unstuck. Landed short of the dz in a farm field.

Scary thought about cutting away and three rings not releaseing. Riding main down and wondering if at 100' the rings might release.

Why did she not pull the reserve after cutaway?


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