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AFF 6/7 - Info & Help?!?

 


Airhead

Oct 8, 2002, 4:42 PM
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AFF 6/7 - Info & Help?!? Can't Post

This weekend I'm gonna be doing the last 2 steps in my AFP program before the final grad jump & the rest of the jumps to get my A-Licence Sly. I'm planning on jumping Sat.& learning how-to & packing chutes on Sun.

I am nervous about doing the FRONT AND BACK LOOPS...I really don't have a visual picture of it...and think if I understood why and how, I can think about it, practicing by visualizing until then. Can you give me some pointers and in-put to help me?

ALSO: I need to make a HOP-N-POP for my grad jump! I've never jumped from an altitude less than 9,500! I need tips to help me to prepare myself for jumping from a low altitude with no freefall too.

Thanx so much Smile- Lila.


diver123  (A 25373)

Oct 8, 2002, 4:50 PM
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Re: [Airhead] AFF 6/7 - Info & Help?!? [In reply to] Can't Post

Always check with your instructors first...
I remember this level being the one I personally feared the most through AFF. All program long they re-inforced how crucial it was to be able to fly stable and then all of a sudden they're telling you they want you to get unstable???!!! I was afraid I wouldn't be able to fix it. However, it came and passed without incident and I grew more confident in my abilities and the sport.
The thing that helped me the most was remembering body position. For my front loop I was told to take my head and shoulders to my knees, and for my back loop I was taught to bring my knees to my head and shoulders. No matter what, it's going to be a little strange cause it's probably the first time you've experienced a different orientation other than belly to earth. The key is just to remember to arch. Rotating, flipping, spinning, just arch...hold it until you're stable..., and you'll be just fine. Good luck!


Premier SkymonkeyONE  (D 12501)

Oct 8, 2002, 4:54 PM
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Re: [Airhead] AFF 6/7 - Info & Help?!? [In reply to] Can't Post

Lila,
doing front and back loops are just like you would do them from a face-down float in a pool.

For a front loop from the belly to earth position, simply duck your head while putting your arms out, then "pulling" them up over your head and around. bring your heels to your butt until they are back around and you are about sitting vertically, then arch out and stop the rotation.

For a back flip, reach your hand forward and grab air with both hands, "pushing" over backwards while simultaneously pulling your knees into your chest. Make a circling motion with your hands around to the front until you head is just past pointing at the ground, then arch out of it and stop the rotation.

Like I said, you can exactly replicate the moves from a face-down float, just underwater, in a pool.

Chuck


darkvapor

Oct 8, 2002, 5:48 PM
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Being relaxed is also very important. Back and front loops are amazingly easy. Just stay loose and make smooth motions. Remember, slow is fast. Its better to have a nice easy back loop than jerk all over the sky and start flailing. Have a bit of confidence in your abilities.

Same for Hop'n'pops. Sure, its gonna be a bit scary when the door opens and you can see detail on the ground, but you have a LOT more time than you think. Ofcourse, don't assume you can fall for 15 seconds before you dump, but stay loose, relax, present your arch to the relative wind (to the direction of flight of the plane). Also, keep your eyes on the plane the whole time when you leave. It will keep you facing the right way, and it will also keep you from breaking your arch (which will probably happen if you look down). Make sure you have a jumpmaster watch you the whole way, so he/she can give you feedback. Having the plane so close to you under canopy is a really cool sight, its something that I won't forget from my first hopnpop. I suppose S/L students have seen it a lot, but since I did AFF, that was the first time I had ever seen the plane on exit.


trilete312  (A License)

Oct 8, 2002, 5:57 PM
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Hi there,

I did my front/back loops and barrel rolls 2 weekends ago for the first time and they were fun !!!! I was a bit nervous, but I just concentrated on getting good and steady then I did just what they told me and it was a piece of cake.

If you ever went off a diving board in a swimming pool, it isn't much different. Just relax and enjoy it.

Very fun.


gale  (B 5141)

Oct 8, 2002, 6:05 PM
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Hi,
I only have 29 jumps but having done loops not too long ago, here's what I might recommend:

The pool suggestions are good but you might not get a chance to do that before your next jump so try doing forward and backward rolls on the floor. The senior jumper I asked for help had me doing rolls all over the packing mat. You can then pay attention to what your body is doing and think about doing that in the air.

As far as the hop-n-pop goes, be glad you're getting one out of the way now before you need to do one for another reason (like a bail out) and are really scared when you need it. These are easy. I know it looks low and scary, but really it's not. Present yourslef to the relactive wind, follow the count you instructor gives you (when I did them it was arch-thousand, reach-thousand, pull-thousand) and relax. I might like it - the opening is nice and soft!

Gale


drenaline  (C License)

Oct 8, 2002, 9:47 PM
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Re: [Airhead] AFF 6/7 - Info & Help?!? [In reply to] Can't Post

Don't be nervous, just have fun, loops are full of fun, to stop the loop just arch for making the loop ask the instructor for some pointers or ask fellow jumpers to tell you, its very easy to do, no worries!

Low altitude jumps are not scary, if you can get out of the plane and be stable on the hill and end up belly to earth without fliping then everything will be allright its the same thing than a altitude jump just that on this one you will pull after you are clear from the plane. Remember the first 1000 feets is 10 seconds, it feels like a minute; if you jump from 3000 feets you have 10 seconds for the pull, more than enough, no worries.

And most important: on everhything you do Have Fun! Cool


bobsoutar  (D 5310)

Oct 9, 2002, 2:40 AM
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You seem to have had plenty of advice for loops - remember that they are primarily there so that you build confidence in you ability to recover to a stable position, so have fun and arch until you get "blue up & green down" again afterwards.

Hop n pops are great. You get lots of well wishers on the way up, a nice soft opening and the sky to yourself for canopy control and landing. Just run through the drills with your instructor and force yourself to do what you are told to do - then buy beer for everyone who will listen to your tales of derring do!

Good luck!


nacmacfeegle  (D 11004)

Oct 9, 2002, 4:05 AM
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Re: [bobsoutar] AFF 6/7 - Info & Help?!? [In reply to] Can't Post

"You get lots of well wishers on the way up, "

And a door full of faces to cheer you on....Cool

"then buy beer for everyone "

Probably the most important thing to remember, apart ffrom pulling that is...Cool


Chief  (D 25365)

Oct 9, 2002, 5:54 AM
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Hi: Like you, I was nervous about flips. My instructor, who was great, put me at ease by telling me not to worry about the actual flips. What he reallywanted to see was my ability to regain stability. You will be fine! Stay Safe


Galen  (A License)

Oct 9, 2002, 6:30 AM
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Re: [Airhead] AFF 6/7 - Info & Help?!? [In reply to] Can't Post

I loved those levels. My instructors weren't so concerned that I pull off perfect loops but that I was able to get stable afterward. Back loop was very earsy for me and cool (horizon, sky, other horizon, Earth, HOrizon). On my front loop I just ended up on my back stared at thesky for a second and I think and did half a back loop to get back to my original position. I tried a front loop on my own after I finished AFF. Still couldn't make it all the way around. No bid deal.


Airhead

Oct 11, 2002, 6:36 PM
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Re: [trilete312] AFF 6/7 - Info & Help?!? [In reply to] Can't Post

DO TELL, TRILETE:

What in the world are "Barrell Rolls" Crazy?!?

Do I ALSO have these to look forward to? Are they an AFF/AFP requirement, or just one of those fun Sly freeflying moves that I'll check out doing ...later?


(This post was edited by Airhead on Oct 11, 2002, 6:38 PM)


fred  (A 44905)

Oct 12, 2002, 1:14 PM
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In reply to:
What in the world are "Barrell Rolls" Crazy?!?

If frontflips and backflips are "vertical", then barrel rolls are horizontal. Basically like rolling out of bed.

You need to be able to do frontflips, backflips, and barrel rolls within something like 30° of heading in order to get your USPA A license. You don't have to do them in most student programs.


(This post was edited by fred on Oct 12, 2002, 1:14 PM)


Luna  (A 43126)

Oct 17, 2002, 7:55 PM
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Re: [fred] AFF 6/7 - Info & Help?!? [In reply to] Can't Post

In the new AFF ISP, barrel rolls are required on the seventh jump, before doing front and back flips. Don't know how many DZ's have switched over to the new ISP, but we are using it at mine.


Airhead

Oct 18, 2002, 7:10 AM
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Re: [Luna] AFF 6/7 - Info & Help?!? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hmmm...

Don't think that HAS caught up w/ the DZs where I'm training yet. I'll check into getting trained in doing those though.

Thanx. Sounds like FUN! -LILA.


TheBile

Oct 23, 2002, 5:15 AM
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I'm so jealous of you, Lila. The front and back flips were the jumps I was looking forward to the most. I reckon your gonna nail it love it.

When your on your way up to do your Hop'n'Pop, just think that my gerbils were named after this jump so it can't be that terrifying. It might put a smile on your face and help you relax too. Smile

U go girl ! Cool


Airhead

Oct 23, 2002, 11:05 AM
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Re: [TheBile] AFF 6/7 - Info & Help?!? [In reply to] Can't Post

Haven't been able to get in a jump since the end of SeptFrown!

Looking to change to a different DZ this weekend & finish up my AFP there. My 1st AFF JM is working outa there and is willing to schedule his availability (unlike someMadof the staff at my current DZ) to help meSmilefinish up with my training w/ coaching & etc. to help me get my A-License!

This is a bit nerve-wracking though...Possibly different aircraft? Different rigging? Different layout of buildings/dropzone/ wind conditions...Makes me worried....Crazy...HELP!

Never jumped anywhere else....What things should I be considering?


Lolie  (C License)

Oct 23, 2002, 11:42 AM
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I was scared the first time I jumped at another DZ, but it is the best experience ever! Imagine me, 18-year-old girl, only 18 jumps, in a state where I don?t know anyone, at one of the biggest dropzones in the country (Skydive Chicago), and nervous as hell! (This was just about a month ago, btw.)

Keep in mind that no matter where you go in the world, skydiving is a small, super-friendly community, and there will always be people to help you and make you comfortable. If you have any questions about the new DZ, ask! What part of the LZ should you stay out of (i.e. where all the hot dogs swoop in, if it?s a big landing area), where the hazards are (i.e. powerlines), what the landing patterns are, etc.

btw- I was nervous about front/backloops, too, but they are AWESOME!!!! They were by far my favorite jumps during AFP. My JM asked me why I was nervous: I knew how to get stable, and there was nothing up there that I was going to run into... When I got to ground I was jumping up and down with a PermaGrin on my face. I LOVED them.

Best of luck, and blue skies! SmileSmile -Lolie


(This post was edited by Lolie on Oct 23, 2002, 11:47 AM)


Luminous  (D 19251)

Oct 23, 2002, 2:58 PM
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Re: [Airhead] AFF 6/7 - Info & Help?!? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Possibly different aircraft? Different rigging? Different layout of buildings/dropzone/ wind conditions...


Looks like your already considering the right things. mmmm... You've been doing King Air exits? Otter exits much eaiser. Just be sure to practice before you go. If your going to SDC it'll probably be newer gear. Try to get a canopy along the same size as your used to. If it's a differnet type canopy, ask about the differences, (toggle response, flaring).

Be sure to look at an aerial view of the DZ and try to have a landing plan before you board the plane, Including where the "outs" are. (keeping in mind that wind has a tendency to shift and spots have a way of going bad.).Crazy Have someone regular to the DZ go over this with you.

Since you already know 1 of the JM's that's cool. but by all means... if there's a DZ.COMer where your going, Look them up!

Have Fun. Be Safe.

BSBD


bps  (D 21283)

Oct 23, 2002, 5:45 PM
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Re: [Airhead] AFF 6/7 - Info & Help?!? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hello --

I'm a little hesitant to give you instructions on how to perform a front loop and a back loop because it may vary from the techniques that your instructors would like you to use. However, as an AFF Instructor, I can give you the following advice:

Being nervous the first time you try a back/front loop is understandable -- you're leaving the stable environment that you've started to become accustomed to. But that is the exact reason you do them in Levels 6 and 7. It demonstrates that you can regain stability. And that is a very important skill to have before graduating from student status. Odds are, you'll be pleasantly surprised at how easy they actually are. And if you fall off axis, or end up on your back, simply arch and bring yourself back over. You'll gain enormous amounts of confidence knowing that you can do this.

Being nervous the first time you exit a plane at 3,500ft is definitely understandable! As mentioned by many others on here, arch like crazy, be sure to keep your head up and your eyes focused on the plane. Doing so will only help your arch *and* it will help you to maintain aircraft heading.

If your drop zone will allow this, you may want to pay for a 5,000ft jump and do a practice exit exactly like you will use at 3,500ft. It's a nice way to "step it down".

Also keep in mind that you have more time than you think when you exit a plane at 3,500ft. You can easily take a 5 second delay and will only be 400 to 500ft below the plane. Just like any other instructional skydive, listen closely to your instructors, practice what you need to do, visualize it, and then perform it.

And most likely, you'll still be nervous the first time you do it. But hey, in it's proper form, nervousness is good and it is also fun. Be sure and let us know how it goes -- and be sure to share your excitement and accomplishments with your fellow jumpers over some cold refreshments that evening.

Blue Skies,

Bryan


Void425  (Student)

Oct 24, 2002, 1:37 AM
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Re: [Airhead] AFF 6/7 - Info & Help?!? [In reply to] Can't Post

I have never jumped before but I have did a lot of reading in the forums and differ web pages. Your instructor is the best to tell you how you should perform your movements. But from what I found you should, think of yourself in a swimming pool, but he pool is filled with air as the medium instead of water. Just do the movements you would do as if you were submerged in water (without flailing your arms and legs around for the extra boost of push). Just do nice smooth flip the same way you would do in a pool of water.


Airhead

Oct 24, 2002, 5:33 AM
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Re: [Lolie] AFF 6/7 - Info & Help?!? [In reply to] Can't Post

THANK YOU! LolieSmile, very much! I appreciate your sharing a similar situation with me.

You're amusingly right on the target with: What are you afraid of? It's not like you're gonna bump into anything in the air...!


Airhead

Oct 24, 2002, 5:46 AM
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Re: [bps] AFF 6/7 - Info & Help?!? [In reply to] Can't Post

It is really reassuring to understand the WHY of learning a particular technique. And I actually DO understand why I need to learn how to do the front and back flips and barrel rolls, NOW, too. THANKS everyone for your sage & experienced words of wisdomWink!!!*SIGH* I think that there may always be something new to understand and learn...

SO, what exactly is meant by maintaining aircraft heading?


bobsoutar  (D 5310)

Oct 24, 2002, 6:13 AM
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Facing the same direction that the aircraft is flying - instruction often given to freefallers (and CRW stack pilots) to give them a heading to work to.


Luminous  (D 19251)

Oct 24, 2002, 8:20 AM
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Quote:
I think that there may always be something new to understand and learn...


Yep.



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