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So I blew up my fairly new Fusion...

 

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grue  (D License)

Jul 5, 2006, 6:48 PM
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So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... Can't Post

Precision Aerodynamics Fusion 210.

Canopy was "precision packed" or psycho packed, with bridle extension. Total of approximately 175 jumps on the canopy.

Was on a freefly jump, went flat at 4,500, pitched the PC as I went through 3,000.

Heard a *BANG*, bounced my head off my chest, saw stars for a second. Looked up, slider was maybe a metre down from the canopy. Right side of the slider was tangled in broken lines, and one of the right cells was blown up. Decided to do a controllability check just for shits and giggles. Pumped the rear risers to try and get the slider to come down, and at that point I noticed the canopy's right side was rippling in the breeze, and it started a spin and dive. I punched the cutaway handle, then punched reserve, and landed safely.

After recovery of the freebag and canopy (Thanks, Stump!), I untangled the lines and took a look. Six attachment points were torn clean off of the canopy, one line broke lower down, and of course the aforementioned cell was torn up on the bottomskin, and there's a tear in the right stabiliser.

So, what causes this sort of thing, and what do I do now?

I'll post pics tomorrow.


(This post was edited by grue on Jul 5, 2006, 7:32 PM)


bigway

Jul 5, 2006, 6:55 PM
Post #2 of 63 (2188 views)
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Re: [grue] So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

send it back and get a new canopy would be the first thing or at least get your money back off them.


justinb138  (B 28762)

Jul 5, 2006, 7:39 PM
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Re: [grue] So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
So, what causes this sort of thing, and what do I do now?

I'll post pics tomorrow.

Contact a local master rigger or send it to the manufacturer to have it looked at. Cool


DeNReN  (B 5642)

Jul 5, 2006, 7:42 PM
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Re: [bigway] So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

Ohhhhh?...you seem quite quick to judge....with little info...sounds to me like a packing error(newb talking...I know shit)....insta canopy resulting in several broken line on a newer canopy is not usually a manufacturing fault....

think.




Edited to add: that sucks Grue.Frown


(This post was edited by DeNReN on Jul 5, 2006, 7:46 PM)


Squeak  (E 1313)

Jul 5, 2006, 7:52 PM
Post #5 of 63 (2130 views)
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Re: [grue] So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

You FAT bastardLaughLaughLaugh Glad you are Ok, you'll know what to do with the canopy so I'm not going to tell you.
But dam that must have been a rushLaughLaugh


kenneth21441  (B License)

Jul 5, 2006, 8:29 PM
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Re: [grue] So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

Glad to hear that your ok.

From my standpoint here its hard to determine the actual cause.

But could be a packing issue. What is your wing load?
I would say send it back to the manufacture to have them look it over and you could ask for a discount but see how much it would cost to repair. Sure it will be expensive but you will have to determine if that is worth the cost of a new canopy and repair cost etc...


grue  (D License)

Jul 5, 2006, 8:32 PM
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Re: [kenneth21441] So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Glad to hear that your ok.

From my standpoint here its hard to determine the actual cause.

But could be a packing issue. What is your wing load?
I would say send it back to the manufacture to have them look it over and you could ask for a discount but see how much it would cost to repair. Sure it will be expensive but you will have to determine if that is worth the cost of a new canopy and repair cost etc...

Wingload was 1.15

Yeah, I'm going to weigh all my options. I absolutely loved the canopy, and in fact just finished billvon's downsize checklist on Saturday, so I had planned on moving to a 190. If they'll give me a discount on one (or sponsor me since I praise the canopy so much? Laugh ), great. If not, I'll have to buy something used in that class, Pilot, Safire2, whatever. Not a lot of used Fusions out there.


bob.dino  (E 2185)

Jul 5, 2006, 8:37 PM
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Re: [bigway] So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
send it back and get a new canopy would be the first thing or at least get your money back off them.

What's your basis for making this claim?


ZigZagMarquis  (D License)

Jul 5, 2006, 8:48 PM
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Re: [grue] So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

Grue, glad you're okay... you've got a "no shit there I was" story you'll tell for a very long time... Wink

Anyway...

Et All,

This is the second story in a few days where a relatively low time jumper has posted relating catistropic canopy failure and seems a bit surprised that it happend! I mean, good on them for posting and seeking knowlege, but what's going on out there in the skydiving verse that may be giving the impression to some of the younger folk that these things don't really happen... they do! ... and, IMO, after such an occurance, I don't think a person is entitled to their money back and, if is a player, with very very very few exceptions, if you're an up-jumper, if you pay a packer, you take your chances, deal with it, or pack your own trash.
Angelic
* now, where did I leave my flame suit? *
Wink


grue  (D License)

Jul 5, 2006, 9:03 PM
Post #10 of 63 (2055 views)
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Re: [ZigZagMarquis] So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not thinking I should get my money back, by any stretch of the imagination. There's no warranty on these products, nor would i expect there to be. I'm not even expecting a discount on a replacement, but I wouldn't turn one down.

I do, however, want to know what the hell caused the blowup. If it was packing, well, such is life. If not, I'd love to know.


Premier Remster  (C License)

Jul 5, 2006, 9:10 PM
Post #11 of 63 (2043 views)
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Re: [grue] So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I do, however, want to know what the hell caused the blowup. If it was packing, well, such is life. If not, I'd love to know.

Good attitude.

Check with your rigger 1st to see if he/she can see something obvious. Then call the manufacturer and ask them is they can look at it to help determine if there is something you have done or not.


crazydiver  (D 28022)

Jul 5, 2006, 11:11 PM
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Re: [grue] So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

This just seems to happen a lot on precision canopies in general. I recently saw an almost identical malfunction on another fusion at my DZ.

It's interesting to me that when you mention you are looking to downsize and mention that you might look at a saffire 2 or a pilot, why does the sabre 2 or the spectre not cross your mind? Its a rare occasion to see a spectre slam someone and the sabre 2 is a solid canopy as well. I actually prefer them both over the saffire and saffire 2. I've never jumped a pilot, but have not heard good things.

I used to be one who stayed away from PD canopies due to the "sticking it to the man" attitude I have and wanting to help out smaller companies, but then I realized I should get over that and fly what flies better, more reliably, and that has better construction.

Kind of off topic, but my 2 cents. Basically, I'm just saying to possibly demo and check out some bigger names in gear.

Now, you're canopy issue, I would say is most likely due to human and/or packing error such as uneven risers and/or slider not all the way at the stops on the canopy. However, it had to be a really horrible pack job for that to happen, even on a precision canopy. Wink Regardless, it shouldn't happen. It could also be due to body position and speeds on opening.

I'm not necesarily saying the company should or should not refund you or get you a new canopy, but because the cause of the mal is unknown to any of us and its mostly each person's word against the others', the company should at least do something to rectify it such as a discount or replacement canopy since the cost of producing a canopy and the materials is minimal compared to what we pay. Good customer service pays off in the end.


(This post was edited by crazydiver on Jul 5, 2006, 11:13 PM)


bigway

Jul 5, 2006, 11:48 PM
Post #13 of 63 (1978 views)
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Re: [bob.dino] So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
send it back and get a new canopy would be the first thing or at least get your money back off them.

What's your basis for making this claim?

Well from what he said and after the same happenning to me over the weekend on a different canopy but not to the point of the lines actually breaking the first thing i would do is send it back to the manufacturer to have them look at it. It could be a problem with the canopy.
Though i would send it back with the d-bag as well.

Over the weekend I jumped a certain canopy that had 50 jumps on it. The canopy is designed to open very slow. The canopy opened faster and louder than anything my dealer had ever seen before. I felt the thud through my back. This happened twice out of 4 times. It really fuckin hurt. The canopy was packed by our head packer each time. The bungees were mainly all brand new.

Later that day a visiting jumper to our dz had the same opening on a similar canopy. He had already broken a femur from a bad opening on this canopy. (why he jumped it again i dont know). Lines broke this time again.

The reason i say send it back to the manufacturer is for two reasons. Let them have a look at the canopy, the d-bag, the slider, the bungees and let them decide what happened. Maybe the canopy is at fault, maybe a packing era. The public deserve to know exactly what it is if it was a canopy fault. The manufacturer needs to know as well.

I am not judging. Maybe i was just hoping he would get a refund. But sending it back does not mean it is their fault, it can just be investigated properly.


bigway

Jul 5, 2006, 11:56 PM
Post #14 of 63 (1973 views)
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Re: [DeNReN] So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Ohhhhh?...you seem quite quick to judge....with little info...sounds to me like a packing error(newb talking...I know shit)....insta canopy resulting in several broken line on a newer canopy is not usually a manufacturing fault....

think.




Edited to add: that sucks Grue.Frown


Really glad it sounds like a packing error to you. why do you come to this judegement so quick??Crazy

I was quick to say send it back to the manufacturer just like nearly every other person said in this thread. Yes i added get money back or new canopy. I said that in hope for him that it was not his fault.

Don't say i am too quick to judge and then make your own presumptions. I work in a gear store and when things like this happen you sen it back to the manufacturer to look at it and investigate why this happened. Not to shift blame but why this happened.

Manufacturers are usually pretty good at replacing their products or fixing their products when things like this occur.


tdog  (D 28800)

Jul 6, 2006, 1:06 AM
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Re: [crazydiver] So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

Sup, Travis!

In reply to:
This just seems to happen a lot on precision canopies in general. I recently saw an almost identical malfunction on another fusion at my DZ.

Was that Peter's - and wasn't his so badly destroyed it goes into the cut me up and use me as a packing tarp, pile?

Quote:
I've never jumped a pilot, but have not heard good things.

"Not heard" Well, I jump one now and I have good things to say and have told you good things, so you lied. Tongue Just kidding...


Squeak  (E 1313)

Jul 6, 2006, 1:07 AM
Post #16 of 63 (1948 views)
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Re: [grue] So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Not a lot of used Fusions out there.

Well there wouldn't be if they all do that LaughLaughLaugh
You comming to Oz?


jumper03  (D License)

Jul 6, 2006, 4:53 AM
Post #17 of 63 (1886 views)
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Re: [grue] So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
If not, I'll have to buy something used in that class, Pilot, Safire2, whatever. Not a lot of used Fusions out there.

Really??? Check my classifieds Angelic
LaughLaughLaughLaugh

edit to add: as to what caused the blow up, it could be a number of things. I guess first off I'm really surprised it could open hard enough to do that kind of damage. The 190 I alluded to above opens so slow I don't do anything more than just push the nose in a bit and make sure the slider is quartered and the openings are super slow and soft.

Either way you go, I'm glad you're alright. Good job saving yourself. Wink


(This post was edited by jumper03 on Jul 6, 2006, 4:55 AM)


ZigZagMarquis  (D License)

Jul 6, 2006, 6:35 AM
Post #18 of 63 (1816 views)
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Re: [grue] So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I'm not thinking I should get my money back, by any stretch of the imagination. There's no warranty on these products, nor would i expect there to be. I'm not even expecting a discount on a replacement, but I wouldn't turn one down.

I do, however, want to know what the hell caused the blowup. If it was packing, well, such is life. If not, I'd love to know.

Quite possibly it was a packing error... most likely you'll never know for sure what caused it exactly; unless by some chance someone videoed your deployment, there could be some clues there.

If you feel you're still "inexperienced" when it comes to packing, have someone watch you (a rigger... a more experienced jumper) and see if you're doing something fundamentally wrong...

if you were using a packer; if you pay a packer, you take your chances...

You say you did a controlability check before doing your emergency procedures... and also noted that the slider wasn't all the way down... but, when you recovered your trash, were both breaks still stowed, or can you say for sure you unstowed them? ... was the slider collapesed? (as in... the main didn't get packed with the breaks unstowed and/or the slider collapsed, did it?)... I've seen that happen and it can cause what you've described.

send the blown up canopy back to the manufacturer for their opinion... you may or may not get much from them other then it will take this and that to fix it or its totaled.

Good luck.


(This post was edited by ZigZagMarquis on Jul 6, 2006, 6:47 AM)


airtwardo  (D License)

Jul 6, 2006, 9:22 AM
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Re: [grue] So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

Couldn't have been THAT hard if yer shoes stayed on!Tongue


Is all / most of the damage located in the same section of the canopy? Is there any visible damage to the slider or the inside of the slider gromets?
All 4 grommets look the sames as far as wear patters?

What it sounds like to me...and just a guess without inspecting the canopy..is that you had a slider hang up during the initial stages of deployment. Possibly the broken lines were knotted somehow and initially the slider only came down that far loading the canopy unevenly, finally breaking the lines and tearing away the attachment points...ripping the cell etc.

Again if all the damage were toward one end / side of the canopy....


Whatever kind of canopy you get next, remember....that never happens with 'Rings & Ropes'Wink


airtwardo  (D License)

Jul 6, 2006, 9:41 AM
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Re: [crazydiver] So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

...since the cost of producing a canopy and the materials is minimal compared to what we pay.

Quote:

Really?

Must be why all those canopy manufactures drive Bentley's huh?

The cost of producing a canopy isn't 'just' the materials and labor involved with sewing it up.

There is the design team, testing, marketing, advertising, the workers seems to do a better job with lights on and heat in the winter.

The cost of everything 'else' that goes into making a canopy has to be spread out over the projected sales numbers of an item, these aren't 'Twinkies' they are selling...not a huge market for parachute canopies in the overall marketplace. A manufacturer may 'hope' to recoup the investment if they sell 2000 copies of a certain model...but what if only 1000 sell?

It's been 20 some years since I worked in a loft, but then the 'cost' of producing a 'new' to the market product was in the 50-60% of selling price, if the projected numbers actually go out the door.

When you consider everything ELSE it takes to run the business...profit margin is minimal at best.

That why 'Skydivers' own / run most of the manufacturing companies....if there were all this money to be made, wall street would take interest!


grue  (D License)

Jul 6, 2006, 9:48 AM
Post #21 of 63 (1707 views)
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Re: [ZigZagMarquis] So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You say you did a controlability check before doing your emergency procedures... and also noted that the slider wasn't all the way down... but, when you recovered your trash, were both breaks still stowed, or can you say for sure you unstowed them? ... was the slider collapesed? (as in... the main didn't get packed with the breaks unstowed and/or the slider collapsed, did it?)... I've seen that happen and it can cause what you've described.

send the blown up canopy back to the manufacturer for their opinion... you may or may not get much from them other then it will take this and that to fix it or its totaled.

Good luck.

Brakes were still stowed, slider wasn't collapsed upon recovery. I'm guessing the most likely thing, if it were a packing issue is that I might have pushed the slider off of the stops when I was rolling it, even though I'm very careful about that.

We'll see, though, I'll call precision shortly to see if they wanna look at it.


grue  (D License)

Jul 6, 2006, 9:49 AM
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Re: [jumper03] So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
If not, I'll have to buy something used in that class, Pilot, Safire2, whatever. Not a lot of used Fusions out there.

Really??? Check my classifieds Angelic
LaughLaughLaugh[laughWink

Hah, I didn't realise that one was still for sale! Might be droppin' ya a line!


grue  (D License)

Jul 6, 2006, 9:49 AM
Post #23 of 63 (1705 views)
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Re: [Squeak] So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
In reply to:
Not a lot of used Fusions out there.

Well there wouldn't be if they all do that LaughLaughLaugh
You comming to Oz?

It's fairly likely that i"ll be moving there around Sept/Oct, we'll see Cool


ZigZagMarquis  (D License)

Jul 6, 2006, 10:47 AM
Post #24 of 63 (1664 views)
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Re: [grue] So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
You say you did a controlability check before doing your emergency procedures... and also noted that the slider wasn't all the way down... but, when you recovered your trash, were both breaks still stowed, or can you say for sure you unstowed them? ... was the slider collapesed? (as in... the main didn't get packed with the breaks unstowed and/or the slider collapsed, did it?)... I've seen that happen and it can cause what you've described.

send the blown up canopy back to the manufacturer for their opinion... you may or may not get much from them other then it will take this and that to fix it or its totaled.

Good luck.

Brakes were still stowed, slider wasn't collapsed upon recovery. I'm guessing the most likely thing, if it were a packing issue is that I might have pushed the slider off of the stops when I was rolling it, even though I'm very careful about that.

We'll see, though, I'll call precision shortly to see if they wanna look at it.

Body position???? You didn't dump head-down... in a sit... on your side... where you significantly loaded one riser / line group before the other?

Packing????? When you pack... or when your packer packs for you... you don't wrap the risers / lines around the bottom of the reserve pack tray (rather then routing them down the sides all the way to the bottom of the main pack tray like one should) to where one riser / line group may "hang up" on the reserve pack tray causing the other to load first? ... I've seen folks do this and get away with it a million times, but there's that one time where it may go wrong... a few years ago someone had their reserve pack tray ripped off the container when a main riser / line group hung on the bottom of the reserve pack during deployment.


(This post was edited by ZigZagMarquis on Jul 6, 2006, 10:48 AM)


airtwardo  (D License)

Jul 6, 2006, 11:53 AM
Post #25 of 63 (1620 views)
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Re: [ZigZagMarquis] So I blew up my fairly new Fusion... [In reply to] Can't Post

you don't wrap the risers / lines around the bottom of the reserve pack tray (rather then routing them down the sides all the way to the bottom of the main pack tray like one should) to where one riser / line group may "hang up" on the reserve pack tray causing the other to load first? ...

Quote:

Another good possibility...

It really does sound like one part got loaded first, which is why I'm wondering if the damage was all on one side of even one riser group.


....Grue, it sounds like you're saying you packed it, it that in fact the case?


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