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Docking on tandems

 

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packing_jarrett  (D License)

Jul 4, 2006, 2:42 PM
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Docking on tandems Can't Post

I'm having difficulty staying down with the heavier set of people doing tandems... All right the really fat ones, the ones that can hardly get in the airplanes, the 5'4'' 250 pounders. I had to do a few of those yesterday Pirate. While it took a lot of work for me because I'm like 140 out the door I got down there hardly played around. The next one I got the advice to dock on it and use the tandem as leverage to keep the speed up. I didn't even want to touch them but if it meant getting a "better" video then I would give it a try. I've seen it done before with not a very wide angle and it doesn't look good but I used a .3 and it turned out nicely. What are your views on using the tandems as leverage? When it was first mentioned it seemed like cheating but I guess what ever works. The video: Exit, fly fast to get down, dock, release, tandem spins, dock, release, back off, video opening.


rhys  (D 95)

Jul 4, 2006, 2:50 PM
Post #2 of 98 (3174 views)
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Re: [packing_jarrett] Docking on tandems [In reply to] Can't Post

i can't wait to read some of the replys here!!!

fly your body bro, get a suit that allows you to!!!

docking on tandems is the same as in freefly or RW no tention.

keep it safe!!


freefalle  (D 27777)

Jul 4, 2006, 3:54 PM
Post #3 of 98 (3161 views)
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Re: [packing_jarrett] Docking on tandems [In reply to] Can't Post

If you cant fly on level or slightly below me at the same speed as my tandem, there is no way in hell you are docking on it. If fall rate is an issue for you, go buy a weight belt put some practice jumps on it learn how much weight you have to add or subtract to fly with a bigger person, and then come back and try working with bigger tandems.

Also, bro, know your limits Im 6'2 and I weigh 230 lbs. I CAN NOT fly with a 90 lbs tandem passenger and a 150 lbs tandem passenger. I know it. so if one shows up, even if its my turn in a rotation, I'll pass on it. If a biggun shows up and the tandem pair is going to smoke your ass from go, pass on it. DO NOT let the customers video quality suffer because you cant get it done. Pass the slot on to someone who can, its not a bang on your ability, its about doing the right thing for the customer.


(This post was edited by freefalle on Jul 4, 2006, 4:23 PM)


ockers  (D 3911)

Jul 4, 2006, 3:59 PM
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Re: [packing_jarrett] Docking on tandems [In reply to] Can't Post

Scary fucking stuff!


BlueSBDeath  (D 10160)

Jul 4, 2006, 5:16 PM
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Re: [freefalle] Docking on tandems [In reply to] Can't Post

I have to agree here, I have OFTEN gone with NO suit (just shorts and a T-shirt) with the large ones!!

Please know when to say when, or use other skills, I sit, and back fly with the big boys (and girls).

Stay Safe, get the shot, but do not compromise safety for $$$.

Stay safe,

Arvel


(This post was edited by BlueSBDeath on Jul 4, 2006, 5:17 PM)


pauld767  (D 767)

Jul 5, 2006, 3:58 AM
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Re: [packing_jarrett] Docking on tandems [In reply to] Can't Post

As previously said their are TM/Passenger combinations that will be way out of your range. However, in the past when faced with similar situations (where the pairs are just over my normal limit of range), I have borrowed a very tight RW suit and put an empty plastic bottle (1 to 1.5 Litre) inside the suit, on my belly, in line with the zipper. This has the effect of creating a kind of 'fin' at the lowest point of my arch and helps me go a little faster. Yes the tight suit helps, and you have to try to put your feet over your back onto your shoulders as well (HARD arch), but the bottle helps. Give it a go on a non paying camera jump and see how (IF) it works for you.

Paul.


Peej  (B 2456)

Jul 5, 2006, 5:19 AM
Post #7 of 98 (3043 views)
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Re: [packing_jarrett] Docking on tandems [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Wow, i wish i had the problem that you have! I'm the exact opposite to you, i'm 6ft tall and on the heavier side so i have problems with lighter people. With the lighter people i go off the back of the porter flat and don't do my usual on my back exit off the strut.

If i'm really battling my TI and i have discussed me taking a grip on his hands but thus far i haven't had to do it.

Can you freefly? If i was light and had to keep up with the heavies i'd be either sit flying with them or flying on my head.


mccordia  (D 94775)

Jul 5, 2006, 6:16 AM
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Re: [Peej] Docking on tandems [In reply to] Can't Post

If you're a slow faller, and you want to dock on the tandem to keep up the speed, you'll end up ON TOP of the tandem (just imagine what would happen when you're being dragged down by your arms..)

Not a good idea...Crazy


Peej  (B 2456)

Jul 5, 2006, 6:39 AM
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Re: [mccordia] Docking on tandems [In reply to] Can't Post

Jarno,

If you're replying to me, re-read my post. I'm a fast faller - if i dock on my tandems on my belly i would be below them. If you are replying to the original poster and have just replied to my post, then yes, your advice is right. Wink


mccordia  (D 94775)

Jul 5, 2006, 6:56 AM
Post #10 of 98 (3009 views)
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Re: Docking on tandems [In reply to] Can't Post

Heyhey..
Yea..I was replying to the original poster...I just hit the lowest reply button. Should probably have taken your name out of the subject-line yea..Wink


Peej  (B 2456)

Jul 5, 2006, 7:15 AM
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Re: [mccordia] Docking on tandems [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Sweet, no worries dude! Smile


Fast  (D 28237)

Jul 5, 2006, 8:29 AM
Post #12 of 98 (2985 views)
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Re: [ockers] Docking on tandems [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Scary fucking stuff!

Agreed. Docking isn't going to help you go faster or slower. It will just put you on top or on the bottom of the tandem. Both are really shitty places to be. I still don't shoot video with our DZs two bigger tandem instructors cause they just fall too fast for me.


Danger  (D 549)

Jul 5, 2006, 9:01 AM
Post #13 of 98 (2977 views)
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Re: [packing_jarrett] Docking on tandems [In reply to] Can't Post

If you need to dock on the tandem to keep up, then you don't have the skills to shoot video for that tandem.

You really need to know your limitations when flying camera. Different suits, weights, flying style will help capture the paying customers video.

Talk to other video people locally and mentor under one if possible. Advise given by the TM may not always be in your best interest.

Danger


chutem  (A 45827)

Jul 5, 2006, 9:08 AM
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Re: [Fast] Docking on tandems [In reply to] Can't Post

Wish this was posted in the instructors forum so we could see some tandem instructors opinions on a 200 jump camera flier docking on tandems.Shocked
James


mccordia  (D 94775)

Jul 5, 2006, 9:09 AM
Post #15 of 98 (2969 views)
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Re: [Danger] Docking on tandems [In reply to] Can't Post

If you're not falling fast enough, try shooting the tandem while being naked.
You'll fall at the right speed, you'll have to work harder to fly due to not having drag on your arms and legs (=more practice) AND you'll DEFINATELY get a tandem thats smiling and laughing!

If you're a good looking girl, we can do some free practice at my place..Crazy

All jokes aside...

If you want to practice, find a (heavy flatflying, or good sitflying) jump buddy and do some 2 ways for practice. You'll be able to practice falling faster (be it by arching, sitflying, headdownflying or wearing lead) without having to worry about a drogue and a tandem in front of you that cant compensate for what you're doing or trying...


bmcd308  (D 27472)

Jul 5, 2006, 12:52 PM
Post #16 of 98 (2925 views)
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Re: [packing_jarrett] Docking on tandems [In reply to] Can't Post

I am just assuming this is a troll before I even read the whole thread. Let's see:

1. You have 200 jumps.
2. You do not have the requisite skill to fall at the same speed as a tandem.
3. You are attempting to video tandems.
4. You want to hang on to the tandem so that you will be able to stay closer.
5. You are using a .3 because you are so close you can't use a longer focal length.

Did I miss anything?


justinb138  (B 28762)

Jul 5, 2006, 1:14 PM
Post #17 of 98 (2914 views)
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Re: [bmcd308] Docking on tandems [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I am just assuming this is a troll before I even read the whole thread. Let's see:

1. You have 200 jumps.
2. You do not have the requisite skill to fall at the same speed as a tandem.
3. You are attempting to video tandems.
4. You want to hang on to the tandem so that you will be able to stay closer.
5. You are using a .3 because you are so close you can't use a longer focal length.

Did I miss anything?

Yes.

His weight listed in his profile is 174, not the 140 he claims.
He has 200 jumps and flies a Stiletto 120, and a Batwing 116 at or around a 1.5 loading.

I'm sure safety is at the top of the list.Crazy


packing_jarrett  (D License)

Jul 5, 2006, 1:49 PM
Post #18 of 98 (2901 views)
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Re: Docking on tandems [In reply to] Can't Post

so we're all agreeing that docking on the tandem is not such a good idea. Not that its dangerous but just the fact that a video can turn out bad. I don't take anything against it I agree. I'll find another suit granted the one I'm using is not the best. I do freefly a little when the situation is right. I should spec some tandems to get some practice.


packing_jarrett  (D License)

Jul 5, 2006, 1:57 PM
Post #19 of 98 (2898 views)
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Re: [justinb138] Docking on tandems [In reply to] Can't Post

the 140 is a mistype sorry bout that it should read 170. I don't know much about cameras. I used a .3 because I can get close and get everything. I use it because people tell me to.

Safety is not all about jump numbers. and jump numbers isn't all about experience. I've been videoing tandems for awhile. My dad let me chase his tandems when I started early. Now that I have done a good job others have let me.
Hell yeah I'm jumping a stiletto 120. I'm blasting it with the rears and everything. I'm downsizing even. Safety is a relative term.


jimoke  (D 20444)

Jul 5, 2006, 2:05 PM
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Re: [packing_jarrett] Docking on tandems [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I do freefly a little when the situation is right. I should spec some tandems to get some practice.

Maybe you should practice your freeflying skills with ANYBODY other than tandems. figureing out what corking is under a tandem will land you in another forum here, incidents. I can't believe what I am reading here today.
Stay Safe,
Jimoke


justinb138  (B 28762)

Jul 5, 2006, 2:17 PM
Post #21 of 98 (2881 views)
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Re: [packing_jarrett] Docking on tandems [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Safety is not all about jump numbers. and jump numbers isn't all about experience. I've been videoing tandems for awhile. My dad let me chase his tandems when I started early. Now that I have done a good job others have let me.
Hell yeah I'm jumping a stiletto 120. I'm blasting it with the rears and everything. I'm downsizing even. Safety is a relative term.


Whatever.

Please don't take anyone else out with you. Unimpressed


packing_jarrett  (D License)

Jul 5, 2006, 2:34 PM
Post #22 of 98 (2874 views)
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Re: [justinb138] Docking on tandems [In reply to] Can't Post

you got it dudeWink


sparko

Jul 5, 2006, 4:59 PM
Post #23 of 98 (2842 views)
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Re: [packing_jarrett] Docking on tandems [In reply to] Can't Post

I've seen it done before when the camera guy is sinking out on the tandem, if the passenger goes crazy flat and the camera guy isn't wearing the right suit, sometimes shit happens, and it looks heaps better to take a dock on the TMs hand then to not capture any of the jump on video. If there's heaps to much tension the TM will no doubt release the grip or indicate to do so. It's not like its hanging on for dear life, it just makes the job that tiny bit easier for a few thousand feet.

I just don't really see why everyone's so crazy about it.


turtlespeed

Jul 5, 2006, 5:23 PM
Post #24 of 98 (2834 views)
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Re: [sparko] Docking on tandems [In reply to] Can't Post

Becuase if the Video is not flying (needing help from the passenger) and the passenger pulls them hard or does soemthing crazy like passengers do tend to do - it could send the video into the passengers head or ontop of the pair - kind of like a corked hybrid.

Granted the probability may not be very high, but the possibility exists. Which is safer - getting a suit and skills that make it so that you don't have to work so hard and can fly easily with the pair - or grabbing a passenger hoping that will be enough?


MB38  (A 48618)

Jul 5, 2006, 5:37 PM
Post #25 of 98 (2830 views)
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Re: [justinb138] Docking on tandems [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I am just assuming this is a troll before I even read the whole thread. Let's see:

1. You have 200 jumps.
2. You do not have the requisite skill to fall at the same speed as a tandem.
3. You are attempting to video tandems.
4. You want to hang on to the tandem so that you will be able to stay closer.
5. You are using a .3 because you are so close you can't use a longer focal length.

Did I miss anything?

Yes.

His weight listed in his profile is 174, not the 140 he claims.
He has 200 jumps and flies a Stiletto 120, and a Batwing 116 at or around a 1.5 loading.

I'm sure safety is at the top of the list.Crazy
But what does he know? He's only 15.


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