Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Major PD price increase coming

 

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Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jun 23, 2006, 8:58 AM
Post #1 of 109 (4492 views)
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Major PD price increase coming Can't Post

Wholesale PD prices (not necessarily consumer prices, but they will likely be reflected there) are about to go up dramatically on all PD products, especially the Katana. This will probably have the indirect effect of raising prices on other parachutes since PD is such a large player in the market. So if anyone is considering buying a parachute in the near future, contacting your dealer _now_ would probably be a good call. You may be able to save some money.


BKR

Jun 23, 2006, 9:01 AM
Post #2 of 109 (4479 views)
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Re: [billvon] Major PD price increase coming [In reply to] Can't Post

They have not changed their retail prices, but have cuted dealer discount. So, it is in dealer's hands to deal with this.


(This post was edited by BKR on Jun 23, 2006, 9:02 AM)


caspar  (A 105169)

Jun 23, 2006, 10:09 AM
Post #3 of 109 (4394 views)
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Re: [billvon] Major PD price increase coming [In reply to] Can't Post

so, if the prices of all new canopies go up significantly do you think that will mean that used kit will also appereciate. i quite like the idea of my canopy (used) going up in value before i get to jump it,


Premier GravityGirl  (D 18897)

Jun 23, 2006, 10:30 AM
Post #4 of 109 (4367 views)
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Re: [caspar] Major PD price increase coming [In reply to] Can't Post

Suggested retail remains the same. So I don't think that this will effect the perceived resale value of used gear (by much).

If you were heavily discounted on your kit purchase, then it may work out for you.

But I could be wrong. I have been before. Wink


(This post was edited by GravityGirl on Jun 23, 2006, 10:31 AM)


HydroGuy

Jun 23, 2006, 11:33 AM
Post #5 of 109 (4281 views)
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Re: [billvon] Major PD price increase coming [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
"Part of our goal is to help the dealers take the focus off of price discounting and put it on helping the skydiver become a better skydiver. Making sure they are getting the right canopy for their skill level and their progression in the sport is a whole lot more important than shaving a few dollars off the price", said Wilson. "This simplified dollar-based approach to pricing is a step in the right direction."

This cracks me up. Are they really purporting that raising their prices is going to make someone a better skydiver? How is raising their prices going to make sure someone gets the right canopy for their skill level?

Material costs and production costs have risen, so their finished product price has risen...they should have left it at that.


justinb138  (B 28762)

Jun 23, 2006, 11:45 AM
Post #6 of 109 (4272 views)
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Re: [HydroGuy] Major PD price increase coming [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
How is raising their prices going to make sure someone gets the right canopy for their skill level?

It may be more expensive to downsize quickly, but people will find a way around that.


(This post was edited by justinb138 on Jun 23, 2006, 11:56 AM)


ntacfreefly

Jun 23, 2006, 11:54 AM
Post #7 of 109 (4263 views)
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Re: [HydroGuy] Major PD price increase coming [In reply to] Can't Post

Where'd that quote come from???


Spatula  (A 48026)

Jun 23, 2006, 11:57 AM
Post #8 of 109 (4256 views)
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Re: [ntacfreefly] Major PD price increase coming [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Where'd that quote come from???

the front page.

http://www.dropzone.com/...tail_page.cgi?ID=632


AggieDave  (D License)

Jun 23, 2006, 11:59 AM
Post #9 of 109 (4249 views)
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Re: [HydroGuy] Major PD price increase coming [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
This cracks me up. Are they really purporting that raising their prices is going to make someone a better skydiver? How is raising their prices going to make sure someone gets the right canopy for their skill level?

There is a long list of things in history that have gone down this road and it has accomplished nothing. I look at it like cigerettes. Raising the prices didn't accomplish much. Education has helped alot. Having parents that really care has helped even more. A skydiver's parents are the DZO and the S&TA with a lot of instructor/experienced jumpers aunts and uncles. If they care and work hard to educate the jumpers and ground a jumper when they need to be grounded, then that will go further for our sport.

Quote:
Material costs and production costs have risen, so their finished product price has risen...they should have left it at that.

That I can respect. Even though that Velocity costs $2k.Wink


isaiah85  (D 26804)

Jun 23, 2006, 1:24 PM
Post #10 of 109 (4148 views)
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Re: [AggieDave] Major PD price increase coming [In reply to] Can't Post

Your actually looking at it wrong. We did two things, had a small price increase (3-18% depending on the canopy, due to our higher cost to build them) and changed our pricing structure. Two separate things. The new pricing structure allows dealers the ability to make money. Current policy is low ball anyone who calls just to get the order, thus making it hard to make any money, in turn making it hard to provide proper service and take the time necessary to ask all the right questions, and find out if the canopy someone is asking for really is the best choice. If your not going to make money on a sale, how much time do you suppose your going to invest in that sale, or learning about all the different products?

The new pricing structure will allow dealers the opportunity to make money and in turn, provide the services necessary to make sure customers are happy and safe with their choice, which will result in better and safer skydivers. Our goal here is to help our dealers focus on servicing our customers rather then worrying about staying in business. It's part of our commitment to providing the best products and best service to our customers. We want our dealers to be knowledgeable on our products and help people find the right canopy, not just order takers.

What you'll see is the rest of the skydiving industry follow shortly. It's really not a new concept, just new to the skydiving industry.

Isaiah


justinb138  (B 28762)

Jun 23, 2006, 1:44 PM
Post #11 of 109 (4121 views)
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Re: [isaiah85] Major PD price increase coming [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
The new pricing structure allows dealers the ability to make money.

I've been kind of slow today, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how increasing prices is going to help dealers make money?

Am I missing something?


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jun 23, 2006, 1:56 PM
Post #12 of 109 (4111 views)
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Re: [justinb138] Major PD price increase coming [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
The new pricing structure allows dealers the ability to make money.

I've been kind of slow today, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how increasing prices is going to help dealers make money?

Am I missing something?

Economics 101, the more you sell the more you make.Smile


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Jun 23, 2006, 2:05 PM
Post #13 of 109 (4100 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Major PD price increase coming [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Economics 101, the more you sell the more you make.Smile

that same class reveals that unit sales decrease when you increase unit prices.


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jun 23, 2006, 2:16 PM
Post #14 of 109 (4090 views)
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Re: [kelpdiver] Major PD price increase coming [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Economics 101, the more you sell the more you make.Smile

that same class reveals that unit sales decrease when you increase unit prices.

And your point is?


MakeItHappen

Jun 23, 2006, 2:33 PM
Post #15 of 109 (4069 views)
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Re: [isaiah85] Major PD price increase coming [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Your actually looking at it wrong. We did two things, had a small price increase (3-18% depending on the canopy, due to our higher cost to build them) and changed our pricing structure. Two separate things. The new pricing structure allows dealers the ability to make money. Current policy is low ball anyone who calls just to get the order, thus making it hard to make any money, in turn making it hard to provide proper service and take the time necessary to ask all the right questions, and find out if the canopy someone is asking for really is the best choice. If your not going to make money on a sale, how much time do you suppose your going to invest in that sale, or learning about all the different products?

The new pricing structure will allow dealers the opportunity to make money and in turn, provide the services necessary to make sure customers are happy and safe with their choice, which will result in better and safer skydivers. Our goal here is to help our dealers focus on servicing our customers rather then worrying about staying in business. It's part of our commitment to providing the best products and best service to our customers. We want our dealers to be knowledgeable on our products and help people find the right canopy, not just order takers.

What you'll see is the rest of the skydiving industry follow shortly. It's really not a new concept, just new to the skydiving industry.

I'm gonna call BS on this one. I don't know if you are officially speaking for PD or not.

First off I want to make it clear that I am NOT speaking for Square1 on this. I am speaking as a consumer. In case you did not know, I am Square1's webmaster.

PD did something that absolutely infuriates me as a consumer. PD said all the retailers must now tell customers via their web site to 'Ask for prices'. This slows and delays a sale. First you have to email a message, asking 'what's the price of such-n-such?'. Then you get a reply - maybe a day later. Then you have to do the same thing with all the other retailers you might consider. More replies, days later. Most jumpers have the "I want the canopy NOW" mentality. I know I do once I decide on what I want.

There's no fucking way I'd CALL all these retailers, even on toll free numbers. I'd only email them. Every canopy I've bought since 1990 has been an EMAIL sale. I just don't have the time for phone calls during their business hours. I work during their business hours.

Hey PD, why can't I place an order at midnight my time, when US retailers are closed? I don't want to wait until the next day. I want it shipped the next day, so I can have it this weekend.

To address PD's wholesale price increase based on how much it costs to produce each canopy:
I think it's really good that PD's ERP software allows PD to determine exact costs to produce each canopy type & size.

But your response to this information is just plain absurd.

If I mfg 3 widgets, a, b and c, that only varied in size, then discovered that it took $10 to mfg a, $15 to mfg b and $20 to mfg c, I would ask, why is that?
Ok- you say c is bigger than b that is bigger than a. It takes more materials to mfg c than a. OK fine, set the retail prices to reflect that and to garner the same level of profit per widget. IOW, retail price of a = $15, b= $20 and c= $25. The mfg gets $5 per sale. Or you could set it at a %. Say you want 20% profit, then a = $12, b= $18 and c= $24.

Look, all these retailers are selling the SAME product. If a customer KNOWS what he wants, he'll go with the lowest price, including shipping and taxes.

For the people that do not know what canopy they want, they already call the retailers and ask questions.

All PD did was make it harder for the people that know what type of canopy they want to order. PD did not do anything to help the ''What canopy should I get?" people.

.


(This post was edited by MakeItHappen on Jun 23, 2006, 3:25 PM)


ntacfreefly

Jun 23, 2006, 3:49 PM
Post #16 of 109 (4011 views)
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Re: [MakeItHappen] Major PD price increase coming [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
PD did something that absolutely infuriates me as a consumer.

As a consumer you should be dealing with your dealer. They should be dealing with PD for sales. When you buy a car do you call Toyota headquarters?

Now granted I don't know the details of this whole thing but looking at your analogy I was just making an observation.

Blues.


(This post was edited by ntacfreefly on Jun 23, 2006, 3:52 PM)


HydroGuy

Jun 23, 2006, 3:57 PM
Post #17 of 109 (4004 views)
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Re: [isaiah85] Major PD price increase coming [In reply to] Can't Post

After people finish chit chatting on the phone, the consumer is still going to search around for the low ball price...I don't see how this is going to change.


Premier TomAiello  (D 22400)
Moderator
Jun 23, 2006, 4:01 PM
Post #18 of 109 (4000 views)
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Re: [isaiah85] Major PD price increase coming [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
...had a small price increase (3-18% depending on the canopy, due to our higher cost to build them)...

Will the prices (that you charge the designer/marketer) also increase on canopies you manufacture under contract that are not PD branded?


beezyshaw  (A 3393)

Jun 23, 2006, 4:06 PM
Post #19 of 109 (3994 views)
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Re: [ntacfreefly] Major PD price increase coming [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
As a consumer you should be dealing with your dealer. They should be dealing with PD for sales. When you buy a car do you call Toyota headquarters?

Now granted I don't know the details of this whole thing but looking at your analogy I was just making an observation.

Ian, I know and understand why you're a PD fan, but what you say to Jan here makes absolutely no sense. She did not imply nor infer that customers would have to deal directly with PD instead of their dealer...what are you talking about?


ntacfreefly

Jun 23, 2006, 4:35 PM
Post #20 of 109 (3972 views)
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Re: [beezyshaw] Major PD price increase coming [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess I'm curious why consumers are questioning how PD deals with dealers. It should be transparent to them IMO.

I'm probably missing some of the dealer picture here (I'm not one) so that probably explains why I don't know what all the fuss is about.

As for the call for price thing - didn't dealers have to do that anyway unless they had stock on their shelves??


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Jun 23, 2006, 4:50 PM
Post #21 of 109 (3960 views)
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Re: [beezyshaw] Major PD price increase coming [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi Beezy,

I, at first, read his post as I think you are doing.

I think (?) what he is saying is:

The consumer (Joe Jumper) should deal with the dealer (Dealer Diver). They (Dealer Diver) should be dealing with PD . . .

Does that make sense now? I hope it does & I hope I got what he was saying/posting. If not, I apologize.

Jerry


diablopilot  (D License)

Jun 23, 2006, 5:18 PM
Post #22 of 109 (3943 views)
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Re: [HydroGuy] Major PD price increase coming [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
"Part of our goal is to help the dealers take the focus off of price discounting and put it on helping the skydiver become a better skydiver. Making sure they are getting the right canopy for their skill level and their progression in the sport is a whole lot more important than shaving a few dollars off the price", said Wilson. "This simplified dollar-based approach to pricing is a step in the right direction."


There is something to what they say. The gear dealer willing to invest hours of time to help select the right w canopy for someone is going to go the way of the dodo bird if manufacturers keep suporting "trunk" dealers who sell at 5 points over cost.



This cracks me up. Are they really purporting that raising their prices is going to make someone a better skydiver? How is raising their prices going to make sure someone gets the right canopy for their skill level?

Material costs and production costs have risen, so their finished product price has risen...they should have left it at that.


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Jun 23, 2006, 8:05 PM
Post #23 of 109 (3886 views)
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Re: [ntacfreefly] Major PD price increase coming [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
As for the call for price thing - didn't dealers have to do that anyway unless they had stock on their shelves??

A lot of dealers list prices, and many list "call for price."

I will general ignore the second group. As a consumer I don't like nebulous pricing, and I don't want to waste my time (and the dealer's) just to find at the end their price is terrible.


MakeItHappen

Jun 23, 2006, 8:45 PM
Post #24 of 109 (3872 views)
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Re: [ntacfreefly] Major PD price increase coming [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
PD did something that absolutely infuriates me as a consumer.

As a consumer you should be dealing with your dealer. They should be dealing with PD for sales. When you buy a car do you call Toyota headquarters?

Perhaps I was not clear enough.
PD implemented a policy that has direct consequences on how consumers can buy a PD canopy.
PD said to dealers, something to the effect "You may not advertise any discounted prices." and that "this policy goes into effect by 5pm on June 23". The reason I know this is because I am the Square1 webmaster and was asked to change the Square1 web site. As I said before, I am not speaking for Square1, I am addressing this issue as it affects me as a consumer. I do use PD products. If I was giving an answer as the Square1 webmaster, I'd say "WooHoo!! more work for me!"

The implications are that a consumer MUST contact the dealer to obtain a price quote. This requires extra effort on the consumer's part to find out what the price is. It may also be an inconvenience because of work schedules or time zone differences or holidays not known to non-'whatever country the dealer is in' customers.

It is now much easier to go buy Aerodyne or Icarus or Hi-Per or JumpShack canopies if you shop when the dealers are not open.

A big advantage of an internet store is that it is open 24 by 7 to serve customers worldwide.

PD's wholesale x many dollars for abc canopy is no different than a percentage off. Everyone can do the math to equate y dollars off such-n-such retail price to a percentage. Consumers will still be able to see who has the better price, albeit with more effort. The extra effort makes you want to go out and buy a non-PD canopy.

.


Kolla  (D License)

Jun 23, 2006, 8:54 PM
Post #25 of 109 (3870 views)
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Re: [diablopilot] Major PD price increase coming [In reply to] Can't Post

well, thing is that two things took place simultaneously - make sure to keep that straight:

1. Prices increased (as a result of increase in the cost of doing business, to include labor & materials). Simple as that.

2. Pricing structure to dealers was changed. Not quite as simple.

That comes about as a part of a plan to move our business to a more professional level. Another part of that plan is to strengthen and support dealers that do take the time to educate and service their customers (in particular the younger jumpers) and enable those dealers to work in an environment where they can thrive. THAT we believe will be to the benefit of the individual jumper and thus the sport.

And JP, as you so eloquently put it - the "trunk dealers" are the ones the industry as a whole hopes to see go the way of the dodo bird (if needed, I recommend watching the movie Ice Age for further information on the species).

Thanks all, for taking the time to read the press release and share your thoughts. We may not always agree, but we will always listen.
This is a big change, and change can be difficult. We are as committed as before to build PD into a strong company with some of the best products in the world, sold by some of the best dealers in the world.

Blue ones,
Kolla Kolbeinsdottir,
Performance Designs, Inc.


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