Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
150 Main As Part Of 1st Rig?

 


arni999  (A 106104)

Jun 3, 2006, 12:56 PM
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150 Main As Part Of 1st Rig? Can't Post

Ok, here's the deal. I'm going to look at a rig tomorrow. It's a teardrop superfly container, stiletto 150 main and techno 155 reserve. obviously, the stiletto is a big no no but i could sell it and put something else in there that suits my lack of experience, maybe a pilot? My question is, if the container can hold a maximum of a 150 main, would this be ok for me? I only weigh 130lbs. Gravitygirl says i should use 160-170 main but ive checked the wingloading and it works out at 1.0333. This seems to suggest that it would be ok. Any advice on this would be great.

Gravitygirl, i'm not trying to say your wrong just trying to make sure i get the rig that is as good as it can be for me. I really do appreciate your advice Smile

Thanks to everyone else too who answered my last post about a possible 1st rig, much appreciated


chutem  (A 45827)

Jun 3, 2006, 1:22 PM
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Re: [arni999] 150 Main As Part Of 1st Rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

Gravitygirl is on the right track in my opinion. Others may not feel the same. I'd say stick with the better safe than sorry plan. Plenty of time to downsize later.
James


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jun 3, 2006, 1:32 PM
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Re: [arni999] 150 Main As Part Of 1st Rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

You have 15 jumps, maybe this would be a good time to start listening to knowledgeable when they offer advice.

Bonnie is pretty damn good at what she does and gave you sound advice. But you can shop around and find someone to tell you what you what to hear.

You quit jumping in 2003 because of a landing injury. What was the W/L on that canopy?


Premier skybytch  (D License)

Jun 3, 2006, 1:46 PM
Post #4 of 21 (876 views)
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Re: [arni999] 150 Main As Part Of 1st Rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Gravitygirl says i should use 160-170 main but ive checked the wingloading and it works out at 1.0333. This seems to suggest that it would be ok.

A well known parachute designer and very experienced canopy pilot, Brian Germain, put out a chart that gives his recommendations for canopy sizes for jumpers under 500 jumps. It's attached to the first post in this thread. Check it out.

You can buy whatever size main you think will be okay, but you're far better off getting the size that is recommended by people who actually know something.

Have you talked about this with anybody who has seen you land a parachute?


arni999  (A 106104)

Jun 3, 2006, 2:10 PM
Post #5 of 21 (868 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] 150 Main As Part Of 1st Rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

Earlier this morning, i posted an ad for my 1st rig. The 1st person to reply was Bonnie (gravitygirl) offering a rig she has for sale. It consists of a pilot 150 main and smart 150 reserve. This is what got me thinking that a 150 main might be suitable and the wingloading seemed to check out!

I did not post so i can get the answer i want, i posted so i could get opinions from other 'very experienced' jumpers and make an informed decision as to whether i might buy this particlar rig or not. And if it is not suitable for me, find out what the main problems are, enabling me to learn more about this wonderful sport.

Theres me thinking that this forum was for asking questions enabling people to learn more about the sport they love! I was obviously wrong!!

I was hoping that if it is not a good idea to jump a 150 main that somebody might inform me of the dangers and possibly suggest what the difference is between somebody jumping a 190 main with a wingloading of 1.03 and somebody jumping a 150 main with the same wingloading? Is the descent rate still faster on the smaller main?

Another reason for asking the question is that my last AFF instructor said i shouldnt have a problem flying a canopy with wingloading of 1.1 which is smaller than a 150 still.

Whats wrong with asking questions and why do you feel the need to post in such an aggressive manor! You are the sort of person that makes me think twice about posting on here. i now only post if the question i have is important to me and that will enable me to be safer in what i do.

Don't make assumptions about me, you dont know me!! And if all you want to do is dis me for my questions, dont bother posting a reply. I only want constructive thoughts. You are just wasting your time and mine

I respect bonnies opinion but whats wrong with getting other peoples thoughts also?


arni999  (A 106104)

Jun 3, 2006, 2:12 PM
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Re: [skybytch] 150 Main As Part Of 1st Rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
A well known parachute designer and very experienced canopy pilot, Brian Germain, put out a chart that gives his recommendations for canopy sizes for jumpers under 500 jumps. It's attached to the first post in this thread. Check it out.

Thanks for the info skybatch, i appreciate it


arni999  (A 106104)

Jun 3, 2006, 2:19 PM
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Re: [arni999] 150 Main As Part Of 1st Rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

Just read the article, its exactly the sort of thing i wanted. I now have the answer i needed. i won't be jumping a 150 main yet!!

(see mjosparky, thats all it took to answer my question, being aggresive is so not helpful!)

Thanks Smile


Cloudi  (C 35301)

Jun 3, 2006, 3:46 PM
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Re: [arni999] 150 Main As Part Of 1st Rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

What was so aggressive about mjosparky's post? Maybe you're being a little sensitive?

You have 15 jumps. Maybe you're different than the rest of us, but I know I didn't know shit at 15 jumps (still don't!). I asked my instructors for advice. Period. I trusted whatever they had to say. They haven't steered me wrong yet. Smile I still seek them out for advice and will for as long as I jump.

Bonnie knows her shit, so if you didn't understand why she suggested a 170 for your first main, all you had to do was ask her. She could have directed you to the same article and maybe even these (In fact, she could probably explain it just as well in her own words, but here are the links anyway): http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/wingload.pdf; http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/choosing1.pdf; http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/choosing2.pdf; http://www.dropzone.com/...etail_page.cgi?ID=46. Along with Brian's, they are all great articles with tons of information for new jumpers, as well as experienced ones who may need a refresher.

If you come to a forum looking for advice, please understand that you are asking people who know nothing about you, your skill level, what gear you have been using so far, or what is truly best for you. Most of the experienced skydivers who post here sincerely have your best interests at heart, so grow a thicker skin and be prepared to answer questions that will better help them answer yours. Cool


Premier GravityGirl  (D 18897)

Jun 3, 2006, 4:08 PM
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Re: [arni999] 150 Main As Part Of 1st Rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

Hey Mikey,

I'm sorry I didn't read your profile before I responded to your ad. I didn't look to see how many jumps you have.

Your questions are all good questions. And if you don't ask, you won't know.

Also, if nobody questions my advise, I may not question it myself. Staying fresh and on top of the game is a good thing IMHO.

All that said, you may want to consider a rig that can accomodate a 170 and a 150 main. Sort out some trial and errors on the 170. The line set on most 150 parachutes are considerably shorter and more responsive than 170s. So it's not just a question of wing loading at that point.

A spectre 170 packs pretty small. A PD160 reserve or similar would be a size to consider.

Just my advise. Worth what you paid for it. Tongue

There are no stupid questions.


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Jun 3, 2006, 5:35 PM
Post #10 of 21 (826 views)
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Re: [arni999] 150 Main As Part Of 1st Rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Gravitygirl says i should use 160-170 main but ive checked the wingloading and it works out at 1.0333. This seems to suggest that it would be ok. Any advice on this would be great.

Bonnie says... Nuff said.


riggermick  (D 17071)

Jun 3, 2006, 10:51 PM
Post #11 of 21 (788 views)
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Re: [arni999] 150 Main As Part Of 1st Rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Just read the article, its exactly the sort of thing i wanted. I now have the answer i needed. i won't be jumping a 150 main yet!!

(see mjosparky, thats all it took to answer my question, being aggresive is so not helpful!)

Thanks Smile


Forgive him, he's old and crotchety and set in his ways! But he does have valuable insight into what you are going through. He's agressive as he (like me) has seen too much bad stuff happen to inexperienced jumpers with a majority of them being WAAAY to over confident in their abilities. His true intentions are not to "diss" you but to keep you alive and healthy. Sometimes the hammer is needed along with the feather to keep you on track. He does give a shit about your safety but he has never met you (neither have I) so take it as helpfull advice and no I'm not his appoligist he can look after himself.


Mick.


dragon2  (D 101989)

Jun 4, 2006, 1:00 AM
Post #12 of 21 (777 views)
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Re: [arni999] 150 Main As Part Of 1st Rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm the same weight as you, I bought a spectre 150 at 75 jumps and was fine. But at 15 jumps it would've been way too fast for me.


arni999  (A 106104)

Jun 4, 2006, 3:01 AM
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Re: [dragon2] 150 Main As Part Of 1st Rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

The CCI/owner at my DZ said a 150 should be fine for me but after the advice on here (especially Bonnie), i'd rather not risk it.

I think maybe i do need a thicker skin :-) But i really didnt come on here hoping to get the answer that i wanted. I just wanted advice.

I had no idea that the line set of a 150 main is shorter than a 170. Obviously, a very responsive canopy is not what i need right now.

I don't mean to sound like i'm being over confident about my ability, i just wanted to know, why is a 150 main not suitable for someone of my (in)ability, even though the wingloading is ok. I knew there must be something else, other than wingloading, that i didnt know about. But now i do and it's all good :-)

I have learnt something new so i'm happy

I'll now only be looking for a rig with a 170 main and roughly the same reserve. just out of interest, is it best to go slightly larger on the reserve or slightly smaller. I've seen a few of each so i was just wondering what is best


krazykate  (Student)

Jun 4, 2006, 3:37 AM
Post #14 of 21 (754 views)
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Re: [arni999] 150 Main As Part Of 1st Rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've got a few skydivery friends (I've only 2 jumps) and since I'm completely obsessed with skydiving (I'm currently waiting to do the AFF Course), I am even looking at equipment that I might buy when I have more jumps!

When I was speaking to someone about sizes, someone pointed out to me that everyone always wants to jump smaller canopies because it's cooler ?!
They also said that you have to be happy jumping your canopy and landing it off the landing area or/and down wind i.e. the worst possible scenario.

Also, I weigh about 130lbs too and have been told that to jump with other people I'll probably have to wear weight, so I need to think about that too!

Does this fit in with what everyone else thinks?


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jun 4, 2006, 1:25 PM
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Re: [riggermick] 150 Main As Part Of 1st Rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Forgive him, he's old and crotchety and set in his ways!

Hey I resemble that remark! (Thanks for taking my 6)

Arni999,

When you ask the same question on 2 separate threads it makes it appear that you might be answer “shopping”. I am sorry if you felt my response was “aggressive”. I didn’t respond to give you a warm a fuzzy feeling, my intent was to get you attention and point out to that people like Bonnie posses a wealth of knowledge about gear. That’s what she does for a living and to buy shoes for the baby.

In the next 100 to 200 jumps you are going to get a lot of advice that you are not going to like or agree with. But you can be pretty sure it is not given with malice or hidden agendas. Some of it will be pure shit and some of will be that which might save your life one day. But it is all given with good intentions.

You are at the perfect time in your jumping to decide who you will make your mentor. Look around your DZ and pick 1 or 2 jumpers with a reasonable about of experience, time in sport, and knowledge. See if they are the type that will send time with a newbie answering questions and even jumping with them. If you pick the right person they will be the first to admit they do not have all the answers but their time in the sport will give them a good idea where to look for the right answers. Avoid the ones who feel they have mastered any one aspect of skydiving. They will tell you “you can handle that, no problem.” Red Flag.

Remember this is recreation, it ain’t worth dying for.


cessna54tango

Jun 5, 2006, 11:48 AM
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Re: [arni999] 150 Main As Part Of 1st Rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

dude you nailed it with asking your dzo. ask people that see u fly. like u said, most of the people on here want to tell you what not to do and how youre gonna die or get hurt. they thrive on that stuff. i think if we removed all of the "youre gonna kill yourself or hurt yourself" posts about 9/10ths of this forum would be gone. if your dzo says its all good and youre comfortable do it up. at 130 lbs under a 150 whats wrong with that, hell keep the stiletto, stay on radio and start swooping early. thats where its at anywayWink


arni999  (A 106104)

Jun 5, 2006, 2:39 PM
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Re: [cessna54tango] 150 Main As Part Of 1st Rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

cessna54tango, thanks for the post firstly though,

Quote:
like u said, most of the people on here want to tell you what not to do and how youre gonna die or get hurt.

I dont believe i have ever said that, i just believe that, like mjosparky, people have seen lots of bad shit happen. (which i understand now and respect)

Secondly,

Quote:
hell keep the stiletto, stay on radio and start swooping early. thats where its at anyway

You mentioned previously about people telling me i'll kill myself, what you just said there, in my opinion, probably will kill me anyway. I really don't think that you thought about what you've just said there. As if jumping a 150 rectangular canopy won't be shit scary enough as it is, you're telling me to jump an eliptical, high performance canopy before i even have 20 jumps? Where do you jump? Remind me never to jump there if thats what they allow!!

Don't get me wrong, you are probably a very good jumper with lots of experience but i think you must forget that i really am still very new to jumping. I notice you jump an 83 main with wingloading of 2.23?? shit thats high. maybe jumping a 150 stilleto might be like flying a brick to you but the thought scares the shit out of me!!

Anyway, thanks for the post anyway, it gave me something to reply to Sly


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jun 5, 2006, 3:03 PM
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Re: [arni999] 150 Main As Part Of 1st Rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
You mentioned previously about people telling me i'll kill myself, what you just said there, in my opinion, probably will kill me anyway. I really don't think that you thought about what you've just said there. As if jumping a 150 rectangular canopy won't be shit scary enough as it is, you're telling me to jump an eliptical, high performance canopy before i even have 20 jumps? Where do you jump? Remind me never to jump there if thats what they allow!!

Well thought out response in my opinion.

If you keep listening to that little voice in your head and coming up with responses like the one above you will do just fine in this sport.

Following they type of advice cessna in giving has put more than one jumper in a bag.


Cloudi  (C 35301)

Jun 5, 2006, 3:53 PM
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Re: [cessna54tango] 150 Main As Part Of 1st Rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

I assume you were kidding/trolling...about all of it.

The DZO may (or may not) have the best advice. It depends on if he/she was one of the instructors or at least watches jumpers closely to see where they're at in skill level and awareness.

I would hope that most DZO's who weren't involved in the person's training would at least confer with the instructors before giving that sort of advice.

I would still recommend going with instructor advice and doing a lot of research on your own, with a large dose of common sense, to make the right choice.

Leave the testosterone, "I can handle it," and "I'll grow into it" out of the thought process. Angelic


Premier billvon  (D 16479)
Moderator
Jun 5, 2006, 3:55 PM
Post #20 of 21 (597 views)
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Re: [arni999] 150 Main As Part Of 1st Rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

How about a Silhouette 170? It 'flies fast' so it will feel smaller to you without sacrificing too much forgiveness, and it packs up a bit smaller than your typical all-ZP 170 sq ft canopy. (I've actually got one here if you want to try it.)

Most containers that will hold a 150 can take a 170 for a short time. It will look a bit ugly, and be hard to close, but as long as the pin protection still works (usually does) it's generally safe to use.


cessna54tango

Jun 5, 2006, 5:42 PM
Post #21 of 21 (583 views)
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Re: [arni999] 150 Main As Part Of 1st Rig? [In reply to] Can't Post

hey bro, yea most of it was just kidding, i didnt think you would take it seriously. sorry. anyways to be serious, you best bet like you said is to talk to you dzo like you did. getting opinions on here is fine but dont take what alot of people say to heart. theres some good info on here and some people have good stuff to share, but i was pointing out that alot of people love to tell someone else they are going to die. sorry if i was steering you in the wrong direction, just thougth youd find it humorous. yea, the 83 cha-hos is a sweet ride. ill post a pic in the swooping forum when i get the rds from joe on it. you know, youre not a "real" swooper unless you have all the hot sh$t, right? not sure if youre new here like you are to the sport but what the trick is, is to sort out what means something to you and what is bs, sorry if you took my post differently. last thing i want to do is scare away someone. saffire 2 is a good canopy too. we got a few of them. look for a newer production canopy, newer designs are better than before, pilot, saffire, pilot to name a few. anyways, have fun and hook the sh#t outta it!



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