Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging:
Cypres Loops

 


2jumphi  (D 4755)

Jun 1, 2006, 2:55 PM
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Cypres Loops Can't Post

Does anyone know where it says how often to change the cypres closing loop on a reserve. I need techincal info. Please don't tell me how often you change it. I have looked in the cypres manuals and have not found anything.


mark  (D 6108)

Jun 1, 2006, 5:01 PM
Post #2 of 21 (1523 views)
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Re: [2jumphi] Cypres Loops [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I have looked in the cypres manuals and have not found anything.

Because there isn't anything -- it's condition, not time. it's your call, just like when to replace a Type IIA closing loop.

For a technical reference, all I could find was the Parachute Rigger Handbook, FAA-H-8083-17, which says on page 5-10, "Many riggers simply replace the loops at each repack, regardless of the condition," implying there is no standard for how often to change it.

Mark


peckerhead

Jun 1, 2006, 5:10 PM
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Re: [2jumphi] Cypres Loops [In reply to] Can't Post

I replace them every repack. They are cheap and it is quick and easy to do. It may not be necesary but it makes me feel better.







koppel  (F License)

Jun 1, 2006, 5:17 PM
Post #4 of 21 (1515 views)
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Re: [2jumphi] Cypres Loops [In reply to] Can't Post

Every repack for 1-pin rigs and every other for 2-pin rigs (racer etc)

I believe that it is especially important for anyone that is using a positive leverage device to close the rig to change them EVERY repack due to the forces that can be exerted during closing.

just my tuppence worth


mark  (D 6108)

Jun 1, 2006, 7:25 PM
Post #5 of 21 (1485 views)
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Re: [koppel] Cypres Loops [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Every repack for 1-pin rigs and every other for 2-pin rigs (racer etc)

The original post asked for technical info, that is, a reference. I agree with your practice, but am wondering if you could cite a manual or regulation.

Mark


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Jun 1, 2006, 8:54 PM
Post #6 of 21 (1462 views)
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Re: [koppel] Cypres Loops [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi koppel,

Re: 'due to the forces that can be exerted'

This REPLY is not to be negative towards you in any manner. Just wondering about your (and other's) thinking regarding the forces applied to the Locking Loop when using or not using a positive leverage device.

IMO there is a thinking that if one does not use a positive leverage device then just pull to your hearts content. I disagree with this thinking. IMO it comes down to just what forces are actually applied to the Locking Loop, not the method of applying those forces.

Lots of riggers use lots of devices and, I will argue, that they do not know the forces that they are applying to the Locking Loop.

I personally witnessed a very good friend break a quite new Locking Loop by pulling on the pull-up cord by hand (yes, he was and is a very strong person). Therefore, I contend that it is not the device that is used, it is the actual force that is applied. I do however agree that it is very much easier to apply large forces with the positive leverage device, but I do not agree that it applies more force than other methods.

Riggerrob has posted about using a strap with a hook from a harness snap with the strap around his body/shoulders. I think that is a great device; but does he know how much force he is applying? Does anyone?

Just my old $0.02 which isn't much sometimes.

Jerry


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jun 1, 2006, 9:30 PM
Post #7 of 21 (1448 views)
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] Cypres Loops [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Hi koppel,

Re: 'due to the forces that can be exerted'

This REPLY is not to be negative towards you in any manner. Just wondering about your (and other's) thinking regarding the forces applied to the Locking Loop when using or not using a positive leverage device.

IMO there is a thinking that if one does not use a positive leverage device then just pull to your hearts content. I disagree with this thinking. IMO it comes down to just what forces are actually applied to the Locking Loop, not the method of applying those forces.

Lots of riggers use lots of devices and, I will argue, that they do not know the forces that they are applying to the Locking Loop.

I personally witnessed a very good friend break a quite new Locking Loop by pulling on the pull-up cord by hand (yes, he was and is a very strong person). Therefore, I contend that it is not the device that is used, it is the actual force that is applied. I do however agree that it is very much easier to apply large forces with the positive leverage device, but I do not agree that it applies more force than other methods.

Riggerrob has posted about using a strap with a hook from a harness snap with the strap around his body/shoulders. I think that is a great device; but does he know how much force he is applying? Does anyone?

Just my old $0.02 which isn't much sometimes.

Jerry

I agree, the loop does not know how the force is applied. Regardless of how it is applied you need enough force to get the loop through the bag, the P/C and all the flaps far enough to put the pin in. As in any rigging task care needs to be taken.


koppel  (F License)

Jun 1, 2006, 10:50 PM
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] Cypres Loops [In reply to] Can't Post

Good Point and well made. Thank you.

you are correct that the loop does not know where the force comes from.

on the subject of "quite new Locking loop' are you talking about a Main or Reserve? If it is a Reserve the quote suggests that it was not new. Could that be interpreted to suggest that it is therefore a good idea regardless to change the loop everytime?

Regards


matt91078  (D 28660)

Jun 2, 2006, 3:49 AM
Post #9 of 21 (1394 views)
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Re: [koppel] Cypres Loops [In reply to] Can't Post

I change it out every time, just because.


chutingstar  (D 19956)

Jun 2, 2006, 6:04 AM
Post #10 of 21 (1372 views)
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Re: [2jumphi] Cypres Loops [In reply to] Can't Post

There is technical information in the Packer's Checklist document from Airtec as well as on their web site. Anyway here is what is says:

General information:
At every repack the loops must be checked carefully and be replaced if necessary.

Mike


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jun 2, 2006, 8:02 AM
Post #11 of 21 (1345 views)
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Re: [2jumphi] Cypres Loops [In reply to] Can't Post

I use the same criterian as for reserve suspension lines: one broken strand.
I also replace a lot of fuzzy Cypres loops out of pride/fussiness/perfectionism.


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jun 2, 2006, 8:06 AM
Post #12 of 21 (1340 views)
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] Cypres Loops [In reply to] Can't Post

Riggerrob has posted about using a strap with a hook from a harness snap with the strap around his body/shoulders. I think that is a great device; but does he know how much force he is applying? Does anyone?

Jerry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

When using a packing hook, I have a very clear indication of how much slack remains. More than 1/2 inch of slack means opening the reserve and shortening the loop.
If I try closing a rig that has no slack/is more than "solid", it is a supreme struggle to close with my packing hook and ripcord pull forces exceed 22 pounds (10 kilograms).
Maybe that "feel" just comes from packing 3,000 reserves with the same tool.


fcajump  (D 15598)

Jun 2, 2006, 8:56 AM
Post #13 of 21 (1322 views)
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Re: [riggerrob] Cypres Loops [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I use the same criterian as for reserve suspension lines: one broken strand.
For clarification... do you consider "one broken stand" acceptable or reason to replace?

In reply to:
I also replace a lot of fuzzy Cypres loops out of pride/fussiness/perfectionism.
As I do as well... what I don't know is why I fairly regularly end up with fuzzy's... Any ideas what causes this?

J


Danne  (D License)

Jun 2, 2006, 9:17 AM
Post #14 of 21 (1314 views)
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Re: [fcajump] Cypres Loops [In reply to] Can't Post

That happened to me sometimes before I switched to a new temp pin. The old one had some scratches on it and sometimes damaged the loop. The loop looked fine first but started to fray after a while. Drove me crazy until I found out what the problem was.

/D


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Jun 2, 2006, 9:39 PM
Post #15 of 21 (1237 views)
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Re: [koppel] Cypres Loops [In reply to] Can't Post

Hi koppel,

Re: 'If it is a Reserve the quote suggests that it was not new.'

This occurred during drop testing for TSO testing. We had put maybe 3-4-5 tests on the rig; we were just 'jamming' the round canopies into the container (being in a hurry to get things done); Mick was doing the closing of the test container using a plate, a pull-up cord and his hand/arm muscles; and, yes, he broke the Type II sheathing.

As I posted, he was and is a very strong person. It can be done (surely not with every type of Locking Loop) because I watched it happen.

Hi Riggerrob,

Excellent clarification and that does help a lot of people know just how it should be done.

One device that helps eliminate wear/fuzziness/etc on Locking Loops is the stainless steel device that Para-Gear sells that lets you put it through the Locking Loop and then put the ripcord pin into the end of this s/s gizmo, then push the ripcord pin into the Locking Loop (which pushes the gizmo out of the Locking Loop). This gizmo has a smaller end than a ripcord pin so it goes through the loop without damage (is you use it correctly).

I replace ANY loop that shows ANY signs of wear; you do factor loop replacement into your repack charges don't you?

Jerry

PS) A quiz: Who posts here that makes the s/s gizmo for Para-Gear?


koppel  (F License)

Jun 2, 2006, 10:06 PM
Post #16 of 21 (1234 views)
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] Cypres Loops [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't help you with the maker of the gizmo though someone recently posted about using a s/s fid that worked rather nicely apparently.

and thanks for the other info


riggerrob  (D 14840)

Jun 3, 2006, 6:19 AM
Post #17 of 21 (1212 views)
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Re: [fcajump] Cypres Loops [In reply to] Can't Post

"one broken strand" = replace damaged line/closing loop.


Hooknswoop  (D License)

Jun 3, 2006, 12:08 PM
Post #18 of 21 (1184 views)
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Re: [2jumphi] Cypres Loops [In reply to] Can't Post

I remember reading somewhere (probably PPM) that for main closing loops, when it is frayed 10% of it's total thickness, replace it. That way it never gets to less than 90% of it's total strength.

I do not remember ever reading anything on reserve closing loops. I replace them every re-pack just in case.

Derek


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jun 3, 2006, 1:08 PM
Post #19 of 21 (1179 views)
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] Cypres Loops [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
One device that helps eliminate wear/fuzziness/etc on Locking Loops is the stainless steel device that Para-Gear sells that lets you put it through the Locking Loop and then put the ripcord pin into the end of this s/s gizmo, then push the ripcord pin into the Locking Loop (which pushes the gizmo out of the Locking Loop). This gizmo has a smaller end than a ripcord pin so it goes through the loop without damage (is you use it correctly).

Here is the one I have been using for about 4 or 5 years. I got it from Bob Celeya a DPRE from Cal City.
Attachments: Pin.jpg (105 KB)


JerryBaumchen  (D 1543)

Jun 3, 2006, 2:43 PM
Post #20 of 21 (1172 views)
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Re: [mjosparky] Cypres Loops [In reply to] Can't Post

Sparky,

Yup, that is the gizmo. Made by Pete Swan known as PeteS on this board.

I now owe you a beer or whatever you drink.

Jerry


mjosparky  (D 5476)

Jun 4, 2006, 12:09 PM
Post #21 of 21 (1126 views)
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Re: [JerryBaumchen] Cypres Loops [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Sparky,

Yup, that is the gizmo. Made by Pete Swan known as PeteS on this board.

I now owe you a beer or whatever you drink.

Jerry

Gray Goose! Smile



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