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Medical Response

 

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Albatross  (D 32026)

Mar 3, 2001, 9:32 PM
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After responding to the request for training help at the DZ, I was trying to help us be better perpared for the next time we need to give aid. What do other DZ (not Perris) do for emergency personell on the DZ? What do you keep in you aid kits?



froggie  (A License)

Mar 4, 2001, 6:54 PM
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In reply to:
After responding to the request for training help at the DZ, I was trying to help us be better perpared for the next time we need to give aid. What do other DZ (not Perris) do for emergency personell on the DZ? What do you keep in you aid kits?

Being a volunteer for the town i live in which is also the town my dz is in, Im familiar with some of the emergency precedures. Our fire dept does rope rescue drills and ladder rescue drills with the dz. Our ambulance squad, which provides rescue services does drills with the dz too. Since im often out at the dz, i serve as the connection between the two. we regularly have an ambulance out at the dz on the weekends, usually because im begging the rest of my crew to give up their free time and go out to the dz with me :) Since our ambulance is regularly seen out there when were not responding to an emergency, the jumpers and staff are familiar with us. This keeps the alarm ratio down, cause were not running lights and sirens, instead were sitting on top of the rig, watching the skydivers land. So when we do have to be out there helping someone, the panic level isnt off the charts.
I just got a job working at the dz this summer so i will be providing any immediate medical attention that is needed until the duty crew gets there. Im currently building up my supplies, which incude 4 x4s, trauma dressings, simplified spints (you have to consider the fact that you will probably be the only trained personnelle on location at the time of the injury), BP cuff and stethescope, blankets (for situations dealing with massive bleeding and/or shock), towels, sheets, an EMS Medications guide (check your local first aid supplier or search online, theyre pretty cheap), eye wash kit, medical tape, dispositable thermomaters for medical emergencies (think : heat stroke can occur just as easily in the summer months as a trauma emergency), and im working on getting at least one spinal immobilization board. Check with your squad. I know that we have outdated, but still legal and usable wooden longboards that we dont use cause we have so many new boards. Im sure that we can donate one to the dz. Collars and other spinal immobilization equipment is very important too. Towels can act as CID's, with tape securing them to the longboard.
safety day is this saturday, how about talking to the DZO and seeing about getting the ambulance chief out there to discuss concussions, injuries, illnesses, and risk factors that could lead to injury/illness. Sometimes we think that were tougher than we really are and we need somebody with experience to tell us that we should get checked out after a PLF attempt went bad or something similar to that. I have heard that a lot of the bigger dzs are searching for a staff memeber or two trained in EMS operations/ and treatment. See about getting them to put some of their staff through a first responder course. If that doesnt fit into the budget, talk to the township OEM, see if he can get somebody to come in and certify employees in CPR. There are a lot of one day and couple of hour courses out there that familiarize bystanders with emergency situations.
Im pretty much out of ideas. But ill be posting more, cause im sure that ill remember some new things.
any other questions, or to find out exactly what something means (sorry for the EMS jargon) email me
flyingfrog5@rcn.com



froggie  (A License)

Mar 4, 2001, 7:02 PM
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Oh yeah! i cant believe i forgot this one! Remember, as an EMT you have certain SOP's that you must follow. Check with your state and local EMS divisions of government. You dont want to be doing anything without the state backing you. Administering meds can be very tricky, you best bet would be to check your local policy. I cant explain how important it is to make sure youre following the guidelines. Ive witnessed accidents and felt upset because i was limited in what care i could legally provide. AND REMEMBER~ THE RUELS OF OPERATION...Secure your own safety, then the safety of others. if you put yourself in danger you become an another patient, and that really screws things up.
froggie



Albatross  (D 32026)

Mar 4, 2001, 8:40 PM
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froggie
You rock!! I have come up with pretty much the same list but the idea of heat stroke slipped my mind (i have only been jumping since Oct and it wasn't a big issue). If you ever make it out to Perris or Southern Cal. I'v got a few jump tickets with your name on them and the first round at the bar (next year that is).
Albatross




froggie  (A License)

Mar 4, 2001, 8:57 PM
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ROFLMAO. im only doing my job :) but since you offered... ROAD TRIP! hehe. lemme just get my A license first. hehe. Theres a lot more to think about. um. ive got to run out to the store right now but ill think of some stuff while im there. Theres a lot to think about... for example : diabetics, asthmatics, high blood pressure, any type of medical history. Its all stuff that jumpers have to realize. I mean really, i think that there are a lot of skydivers, esp. newbies, out there not being completely honest to their JMs and fellow skydivers about thier medical history.
SO another benifit for your dz would be to keep handy any *risks*. Imagine this: Im a skydiver, new to your dz. I get there and fill out my waiver. Like a smart skydiver, i inform manifest (who basically run the show) and the load organizer that i have ashthma and occasionally need to use a rescue inhailor (read: emergency inhhailor) So manifest has this system where any potential risky (for lack of a more appropriate word) skydivers files are kept in a daily mailbox. At the end of the day, their info gets sorted back in with the rest. but since theyre jumping for the day, their vital info is right at the manifestors fingertips. No need for frantic searching if a situation does arise. Just a little suggestion. damn. time for the wawa run. more later.
EMT FROGGIE (couldnt resist. it just rymed a bit to good to pass by) :)



froggie  (A License)

Mar 4, 2001, 9:03 PM
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oh duh! im really gonna try and say everything that i want in one reply instead of posting it and then adding on....
if the jumpers seee that manifest is okay with people jumping with (certain) medical conditions, and that manifest is prepared to handle an emergency, more jumpers might be honest about thier medical HX. Ya get where im going with this? Im not really sure what medical/physical things would keep somebody from jumping, so if you know can ya inform me? Im not even sure if people with high BP for example, are permitted to skydive. I just dont know about the psysical requirements. being a 20 y/o, 115 pound female i dont really have an medical condititons to worry anyone. So im not to informed on what is a medical risk.
lemme know if ya know any medical conditiions. thanks




unclbennie  (B License)

Mar 5, 2001, 7:12 AM
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Froggie et al, just a word of caution when stocking a first aid emergency response kit. You as an EMT would know what to do with all that equipment, untrained people can cause more harm than good with a backboard, neck brace etc., I would just have a basic first aid kit, tell everyone not to move someone unless they are in danger of further injury and to just administer basic first aid until trained personnel arrive.
Karen, (professionalbackground RN for 20 years, transport, ER and ICU)



froggie  (A License)

Mar 5, 2001, 11:56 PM
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Karen,
I totally agree wiht you, when it comes to certain towns or juristictions. But for me, we have a lot of support from the police and fd. So extra equipment, that could be detrimental to the patients safety can be great when its held off for a minute or two until the police get there, since they are very familiar wiht the uses and loading of a patient onto one.
Im planning on working with the staff at my dz to teach them how to use some of the more basic equipment. Ive already talked to my chief, my rescue captain, and my OEM cordinator for the township about doing more drills out there. Im a firm believer that even wiht only one trained person on a scene (until addititonal personelle arive) a crowd can be controlled and used to the best of your advantage. Ive been in the situation where i was the most knowedged as far as ems goes, and ive used bystanders for crowd control. patient comfort ("you have a blanket? yes! then go get it!) , and many other things. The one thing that i try my hardest to discourage is direct verbal patient contact. People tend to get very anxious and upset in emergency situations, and this nervousness/anxiety is relayed to the patient. But me, ive been trained to see some really crazy shit and act as if everything is okay. I consider myself, and others do too, to be very good with my patients. I know that their health rests largely in their mental state. So i have learned how to keep them calm, how to honesty answer their questions about thieir injuries, how to keep them alert and responsive. Its not always easy, and im sure you know this. I mean, you gotta deal wiht giving people needles, stitches, and everything else. If i see 7 people in one night you probably see 28. Cause im only one town, and it takes a few towns to contribuate to a hospitals population.
But before i post any more advice, i just want to stress the strong relationships this towns ems system has with other service departments. and being a future dz staff memeber, i can assure you that the rest of the staff will know what to do and what not to do in cases of emergencies. Thats the biggest thing right there, and im trying to use this saturdays safety day as a basis for that. My chief is working on getting somebody out there to talk about when to and not to move somebody whos injured, what to do, what to tell the patient to do, a bunch of things. Talk to ya soon
kel



unclbennie  (B License)

Mar 6, 2001, 6:01 AM
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Froggie, Just for information for others, your DZ sounds like it will have it covered, but the American Red Cross offers a good course called "When Help Is Delayed", its for people who could find themselves in a situation where help is delayed for over 30 minutes, this could happen at some of the very rural DZ's. If you have a fax machine I can send you the stuff I covered last year at Safety Day, there is also a very good article in Parachutist last year on emergencies. I'll try and dig it out for you.
Karen



cyberskydive  (C 28534)

Mar 6, 2001, 6:07 AM
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While we are taling about the red cross, I dont think its a bad idea for interested individuals to attend Adult CPR classes that are very helpful in understanding what to do in a variety of emergency situations. I last attended one at my local red cross chapter and I amd sure that most offer the class.

what little "cents" I have left

D.Chisolm C-28534
webmaster@sunraydesigns.com
http://www.sunraydesigns.com


unclbennie  (B License)

Mar 6, 2001, 6:19 AM
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OK, I pulled out my Red Cross book and here is what they recommend in a basic first aid kit:
Gauze Pads and Roller Gauze (assorted Sizes)
Adhesive Tape
Cold Pack
Plastic Bags
Disposable Gloves
Bandaids (assorted sizes)
Hand cleaner
Small Flashlight & Extra Batteries
Scissors & Tweezers
Blanket
Triangular Bandage
Syrup of Ipecac (probably not necessary at the DZ)
Antiseptic Ointment
Activated Charcoal
For a first aid kit for the DZ I would concentrate more on bandages, icepacks, something you can warm someone with, like a space blanket. Also, the scissors that come in pre-packaged first aid kits usually won't cut paper, so make sure you have good scissors.
Also remember that you have things you can use on you, you have a canopy, that can be used to immobilize, cover up, provide shade, or be used as a protective barrier if you need to apply pressure to a bleeding wound.
Anyway, thats a basic first aid kit, then add to it as you see what you need.
Blue skies all
Karen



froggie  (A License)

Mar 6, 2001, 8:49 AM
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Karen
Thanks for reminding me of the Red Cross. Its easy to forget about them since we have instructors from the ems dept come in and train us. Im definitally gonna talk to the dzo about getting them out there. Theyre more addapted to training non ems personelle. Our instructors train non ems people too, but the american red cross does it more. Here in jersey we need offline medical directive from our medical director about using activated charcole. So I dont really want to add that, cause of the liabiiity risks involved. A.C. is handy at a party scene or poisening, but i don't want to have any real drugs on me, except maybe an O2 tank. OH yeah! an o2 tank! Hey, thanks for getting my train of thought there. Alrighty, im going to go and search for the ARC on the internet so that I have some info to give to our DZO's. THanks again.
froggie



Albatross  (D 32026)

Mar 6, 2001, 9:21 PM
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Karen
As froggie said I totally apreciate your concern about unqualified people attempting to do things that they are not qualified to do, however, I was just trying to see if the other EMTs or nurses out there had any items that I had forgotten. I was aked to help make sure that the emergency kit had everything that the licenced peopole at the drop zone needed to help in the first 10-30 min. I was disturbed to find that the kit was disorganized and parts were missing from the bag and gloves were in short supply and no C-collar was available when I came to help. After I found the airways that we could have used and the golves that I would have liked. I think that just familiarization with the equipment on hand will be a great help. I think that froggies thought that she and her crew are regularly at the DZ and train with them is the best idea that is out there.



unclbennie  (B License)

Mar 7, 2001, 6:05 AM
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Albatross and Froggie,
Hope you don't think I was being a wet blanket on your ideas, possibly you should have two kits, one for everyone to have access to, one that only has basic first aid equipment, and one that EMT's or licensed people have access to. I have seen neck injuries caused by someones "good intentions" and would hate to see that again.
I did a training last year at our DZ that talked about things you can use that you already have, if either of you would like a copy of that outline I'd be happy to forward it to you. Karen



froggie  (A License)

Mar 7, 2001, 10:18 AM
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Karen,
Hey! youre not a wet blanket! not at all. The suggestion for two jumpkits is a great one. thanks for sharing it. Just found out last night that my chief and I are going out to the dropzone for safety day. We have a CEVO class first, but then were going out there afterwards.
I just want to thank the two of us. One person can only think of so many ideas, but with the input of a couple of people, plans can only get better. I think that this thread we have going here is a great thing. Its hard to find other EMT's familiar enough/interested enough in the day to day buisness at the DZ. To find two other people that share my two main passions, medical work and skydiving, well thats just a really cool thing. Thanks for the suggestions and new ideas for what to have/plan for.
Can I get a copy of that list your dz has? thanks a bunch.
kelly.
flyingfrog5@rcn.com and flynfroggie on AIM



Albatross  (D 32026)

Mar 7, 2001, 11:32 PM
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Karen,
I agree 1000% with froggie. You are not a wet blanket but a great person to get good information from. I would never take your concerns as negative but rather as a good reminder that sometimes we have to curb our desire to help with a bit of common senese. I love the idea of having a basic first aid kit for everyone and a medic bag for trained personel. I have worked as a medical genetisist, EMT, and self defense instructor. Together they have told me that there are few things as dangerous as a little knowledge and good intentions. I know that froggie is way on the east coast Frown but where are you.
Blue skys and safe landings
Albatross



unclbennie  (B License)

Mar 8, 2001, 6:35 AM
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Albatross, I'm from Chicago, I jump at a DZ thats out in the corn fields of Illinois, sometimes we have a quick response, sometimes it can take a little while for the paramedics to respond, (not that we have had to call them all that often). Next month I am training all the JM's and other staff in basic CPR and first aid, and for the JM's I am going to offer the Red Cross Course "When Help is Delayed". It is a really good course for lay people. Then my plan is to offer CPR and first aid to any of the fun jumpers who want to take it. That way we have a bunch of people trained. I think all DZ's should have some people trained in emergency response. Just an ole nurses opinion Cool
Karen




froggie  (A License)

Mar 24, 2001, 5:52 PM
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karen and albatross,
its been a while since we posted to this thread but i wanted to give you guys an update.
Last night we had an 'in the classroom instruction course' on rope rescue. We learned all different types of knots, ways to rig up ropes, equipment uses..etc. Then today we actually went out to the dz and did some scenarios. That was so much fun. I got the oportuntily to be a rescuer and a patient. Hope that its the only time i have to be either one! But no scenario can ever be as real as an actual emergency. For instance, today we were drilling and our patients were CAOx3, there was no parachute, and they were already rigged up to ropes and a harness. They were able to help us out. But there may be a situation where your patient is unconscious, unresponsive, in shock, has an altered mental status (Read: VERY ROWDY)..... I know that my patient assisted me in his rescue, but it was my first time up in the tree, and things are very different up there then down on the ground. I had to be in control, and with his assistance i was able to . I have the confidence in my skills now to know that if im a rescuer in a real situation, im gonna be able to handle it.
The class was really benificial, especially considering Im also a skydiver. It gave me confidence in what rescue operations need to be performed and the time that it will take to do each rescue so if im ever stuck up in a tree, i have a good idea of whats going on. It also gave me some real perspective...
our dz is surrounded by woods, and where their arent woods theirs runways and houses and narrow/busy roads. my point being, for my squad and my dz, it is really important to be familiar in this rescue scenario. We dont have much water around us, so water rescue drills with the dz arent as imperative as tree rescue drills. This is something that none of us had mentioned before. If your dz is surrounded by water, you should be very educated/trained/informed about water rescues. The same goes for tree rescues, extreme weather (do you really think that you learn as much drilling every july if you might end up resucing a skydiver in 30 degree weather that youve never drilled in before?), things like that. Maybe your dz is surrounded by swampy land. Then you should probably get out there and be SWAMP THING on a semi regular basis. Okay, enough examples, you guys get my point.
Something that im certain about is the fact that EMS is an ever revolving profession/lifestyle. Even if this thread is 2 years old, resurect it please, cause if you know something that i may not be aware of, i would be very grateful if you could share that info wiht me.
by the way, we got pics of the drill today. Ill be finding a way to post them to dropzone.com. some may end up on the Xkeys website, im not sure though. In any case, ill let you guys know when you can check them out.
Thanks again for contribuating to this thread, any oportunity to grow as an EMT is much appreciated.
kelly




Albatross  (D 32026)

Mar 24, 2001, 8:01 PM
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I am going to present my DZO with a proposal to augment the medical response equipment. However, I have also included an area of aditional training. I think that the EMTs should gett o know DZ personel better and each other. I was suggesting a semi-monthly meeting where the EMT can check in update their information and check the supplies. In addition I was thinking that a semi anual get together with the local EMS might be in order as well as drilling. My final idea was to reward the EMTs or other medical personel on the DZ like they do with jump organizers. I think that we need a coherent plan and I don't think that most DZ have their resources organized. I thnk just the meetings could help get us all on the same page. Maybe we could even try and get a larger group of us us together online so that we don't have to re-invent the wheel every time.

Blue Skys and Safe Landings
Albatross


froggie  (A License)

Mar 24, 2001, 8:08 PM
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albatross,
thats a really good idea. and i can say from personal experience, having a dzo and a local EMS squad working together can be a really good thing. My chief, stewy is always asking questions that begin wiht "is john..does john... can you ask john..." Its cool being the middle man. I love the dz and i want it to be as safe as it can possibly be, so i do whatever i can to have the ems and dz working hand in hand. Today was funny, my chief kept asking me stuff like "see if we can have lunch in the hanger. see if......" I musta drove across the field about 8 times,, back and forth. I knew that everything we did was cool. but stew wanted me to ask anyway so i did to appease him.
But anyway, it is really cool that you want the two to work well together. I think that the monthy update is a great thing. thats a good idea.
kelly



Albatross  (D 32026)

Mar 24, 2001, 9:22 PM
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Kelly
My name is Chris. I don't have to hide my secret identity. I will let you see the final proposal that I make and any feedback that I get. Who knows maybe we can do a better job of helping people, make new friends, and get a few free jumps along the way.

Blue Skys and Safe Landings
Albatross


froggie  (A License)

Mar 24, 2001, 10:31 PM
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chris,
glad to see that you are gonna take this idea as far as possible. You got me thinking, and i realized that tree landings arent the only mishaps on the dz. Im going to talk to john, the dzo, tomorrow. I think that we should drill on stabilization out in the field, maybe do a roof rescue, work on the time/efficency. I want to have it down as much as possible. Figure we could put a student rig on somebody and have them lay out in the field. We approach, communicate with the PT., find out any 'injuries' (predeterminded). Maybe even throw in a mass casualty drill. Place skydivers all around the dz, and use priority tags, set up a triage station. Hope to get this plan in action soon, while we still get so many non jumpable days. Looks like we both have projects to work on. Ill let you know how mine goes too. Just gotta remember to talk to john about it (im not very 'with it' in the am.)
kelly



Donna  (A 37295)

Mar 28, 2001, 6:45 AM
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Hi All,

I just came across this thread and really enjoyed reading it. You all came up with some good ideas. I am an EMT for my town which is very small and so I don't have a lot of first hand experience. The town that I skydive in is also small and run mostly by volunteers and I've wondered if they would be adequately prepared to help in some instances. I think it's great that Froggie's town actually does drills. You mentioned a mass casualty one and I think that would be very helpful in case of a plane crash. I've only been skydiving since last year and haven't really checked out what kind of supplies our DZ has on hand but I will do that next weekend. After there was a neck injury last fall and we were lucky enough to just happen to have someone there who had a collar, I had been thinking about what a good idea it would be to have some adjustable ones on hand. After your comments about some things causing more harm than good in the wrong hands it would make sense to have some supplies separate for only experienced personnel to use. I would love a copy of your DZ's list of things on hand that you could use, Karen. It sounds like it could be very helpful.

Thanks,
Donna



Albatross  (D 32026)

Mar 28, 2001, 5:31 PM
Post #24 of 51 (3423 views)
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Donna
Welcome to our little thread. We are all trying to shake a couple of good ideas from our head so that we are all better perpared. If you have any suggestions or ideas please let us all know. This is a way for all of us to learn.

Blue Skys and Safe Landings
Albatross


unclbennie  (B License)

Apr 2, 2001, 10:44 AM
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Froggie,
Sounds like the rope rescue course was great training. I would think that for people at the DZ the following scenerio's would be good to at least talk through, maybe on a rainy day at the DZ.
1. Responding to a hard landing
2. simple imobilizing techniques
3. How to stop bleeding
4. Cold stress (frost bite)
5. Heat stress (heat stroke)
6. Seizures
7. Asthma or breathing emergencies

These are just a few off the top of my head, any others?
Karen




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