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finding suprises during a repack

 

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jdthomas  (D License)

May 27, 2006, 11:47 AM
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finding suprises during a repack Can't Post

 I had a guy bring me a rig for a repack and inside I found a used kleenex... what to do what to do?
I am sure nothing was unsafe or so i would think, but should I just laugh it off, contact the last rigger myself or let the owner of the rig do so.
My concern is, if this could have slipped into the rig what enviroment is the last rigger packing in?
I personally vac up the area I rig in before each reapck that I do and I have the benifit of having an area that is just for rigging and nothing else happens in the part of my basement.
Other riggers comments or suggestions?
Joe


rigger_john  (C 101098)

May 27, 2006, 12:32 PM
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Re: [jdthomas] finding suprises during a repack [In reply to] Can't Post

I know it's different in the UK, but what normaly happens here is we contact the previous rigger.

My personal view is if it's serious I would inform the customer too but let them know I had spoken to the rigger.

If it is a potential fatality I would inform the previous rigger that I was reporting the find to the Riggers Committee. Of course that is in the UK.


(This post was edited by rigger_john on May 27, 2006, 12:38 PM)


riggermick  (D 17071)

May 27, 2006, 1:27 PM
Post #3 of 88 (5477 views)
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Re: [jdthomas] finding suprises during a repack [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I had a guy bring me a rig for a repack and inside I found a used kleenex... what to do what to do?
I am sure nothing was unsafe or so i would think, but should I just laugh it off, contact the last rigger myself or let the owner of the rig do so.
My concern is, if this could have slipped into the rig what enviroment is the last rigger packing in?
I personally vac up the area I rig in before each reapck that I do and I have the benifit of having an area that is just for rigging and nothing else happens in the part of my basement.
Other riggers comments or suggestions?
Joe



Found a packing weight in the tail of a swift reserve once, had the riggers name on it. I walked outside (at Perris) the loft and gave it back to him. He was to say the least somwhat embarresed about that. Well known and well respected (still is) point of it all? It can happen to ANYONE. Talk to him privatly about it.


Mick.


jdthomas  (D License)

May 27, 2006, 6:51 PM
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Re: [riggermick] finding suprises during a repack [In reply to] Can't Post

 I spoke with the owner, made sure he knew that there was no safety issue at hand.
Joe


linestretch  (D 21060)

May 27, 2006, 7:20 PM
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Re: [jdthomas] finding suprises during a repack [In reply to] Can't Post

I think it should have been between you and the rigger....the onwer didn't need to know this. Now, depending on the riggers reaction...maybe then tell the owner, or not.


kenneth21441  (B License)

May 27, 2006, 8:53 PM
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Re: [linestretch] finding suprises during a repack [In reply to] Can't Post

Well im glad it was nothing big that could cause a malfunction .... we all need to make it a point that we do not leave things in the rigs we pack.... years ago we used to pack flour in the lower lateral band of rigs that cherry jumpers were jumping but that was the old days..........



be safe..../


PeteS  (D 8230)

May 27, 2006, 10:29 PM
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Re: [jdthomas] finding suprises during a repack [In reply to] Can't Post

I've found a split ring that some use for locking a bodkin on a freebag, a pair of forceps in another, some coins in one. But a kleenex!? Oh my god! Just kidding, people make errors, its how we deal with them that counts.


Andy9o8  (D License)

May 28, 2006, 5:54 AM
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Re: [linestretch] finding suprises during a repack [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I think it should have been between you and the rigger....the onwer didn't need to know this.

Why not? It's the owner's rig, and your client is the owner, not the previous rigger. Trust is everything in the owner-rigger relationship. Doesn't the owner have the right to know the condition of his gear, without information being filtered?


Squeak  (E 1313)

May 28, 2006, 6:22 AM
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Re: [Andy9o8] finding suprises during a repack [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
I think it should have been between you and the rigger....the onwer didn't need to know this.

Why not? It's the owner's rig, and your client is the owner, not the previous rigger. Trust is everything in the owner-rigger relationship. Doesn't the owner have the right to know the condition of his gear, without information being filtered?
I agree, I paid a lot of money for my gear and I trust my rigger but if somthing was awry I'd want to know, regardless of how insignificant, some may feel it is


(This post was edited by Squeak on May 28, 2006, 6:23 AM)


highspeeddirt

May 28, 2006, 6:23 AM
Post #10 of 88 (5233 views)
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Re: [jdthomas] finding suprises during a repack [In reply to] Can't Post

i once found a baggie of pot in a repack.


rigger_john  (C 101098)

May 28, 2006, 1:11 PM
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Re: [highspeeddirt] finding suprises during a repack [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
i once found a baggie of pot in a repack.

Sweeeeeet LaughWink


jdthomas  (D License)

May 28, 2006, 2:12 PM
Post #12 of 88 (5147 views)
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Re: [linestretch] finding suprises during a repack [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I think it should have been between you and the rigger....the onwer didn't need to know this. Now, depending on the riggers reaction...maybe then tell the owner, or not.

Well I disagree with you, I feel the owner did need to know about this.
now here is the twist that will possibly change the direction of this thread. the last repack came from the manufacture of the rig as it had gone in for some upgrades!
And although a kleenex is small and safety was not much of an issue here it is still the fact that there was something in the rig. it had clearly been a used kleenex and it came from a manufactures loft!
Joe


Broke  (A License)

May 28, 2006, 8:56 PM
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Re: [jdthomas] finding suprises during a repack [In reply to] Can't Post

Did you mail the Kleenex back to the rigger it belonged to?


jdthomas  (D License)

May 29, 2006, 6:47 AM
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In reply to:
Did you mail the Kleenex back to the rigger it belonged to?

No.
Joe


hunters

Jun 7, 2006, 7:04 AM
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Re: [jdthomas] finding suprises during a repack [In reply to] Can't Post

I found a nicely cut 3x5" hole with 45'ed corners in a packed reserve once. No patch and no stitching. There was a prominent manufacturer many years ago that would ship out packed rigs with safety-pins inside the canopy. They were hard to detect unless you went looking inside the canopy. This company often left long tails of E-tread as well. A few turns of thread around the lines is enough to streamer a canopy. We still have the problem of brass grommets and rubber bands on rigs. There is a chemical reaction between brass and rubber that causes rubber to dissolve { Poynter } I phoned a compay a while back about this and was informed their brass grommets were plated, " I love that one !"


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Jun 7, 2006, 7:37 AM
Post #16 of 88 (4553 views)
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Re: [riggermick] finding suprises during a repack [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Found a packing weight in the tail of a swift reserve once, had the riggers name on it. I walked outside (at Perris) the loft and gave it back to him. He was to say the least somwhat embarresed about that. Well known and well respected (still is) point of it all? It can happen to ANYONE. Talk to him privatly about it.

A packing weight is NOT a kleenex. Did the embarassed rigger inform the owner after you told him?

"Can happen to anyone" - how many riggers on line here think it can happen to them?

I'd hope the first rigger in these two scenarios would tell the owners and not put the 2nd rigger in a bad position by clamming up and making him to make the call whether to tattle or not.

Hard to get worked up over a kleenex, though


jdthomas  (D License)

Jun 7, 2006, 7:46 AM
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Re: [rehmwa] finding suprises during a repack [In reply to] Can't Post

 well rehmwa I agree that it is hard to get worked up over a kleenex unless you consider that this came from a possibly unclean packing area, this was debris that was picked up into this canopy from a floor.. what else is on the floor and what kind of rigger works in that enviroment? To me it shows that this rigger has poor workmanship and does not care about where he works and that could be reflected in the pack job as well.

As far as how many riggers on here "can happy to anyone" question. I am not foolish enough to think that this could not happen to me. However i do take pride in the fact that I keep my rigging area clean and I count all my tools.

Joe


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Jun 7, 2006, 8:21 AM
Post #18 of 88 (4520 views)
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Re: [jdthomas] finding suprises during a repack [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm completely in line with that post. I think it's a good way to look at it.

So do you:
1 - tell the customer?
2 - tell the 1st rigger and leave it at that?
3 - tell the 1st rigger and see if he 'fesses up to the customer? If he doesn't, only THEN tell the customer?
4 - tell both right away
5 - go check out the first loft and see, in person, if it's a sloppy loft....

or does it depend if you find a kleenex vs a packing weight vs a temporary pin vs an anvil.......

Edit: "Can happen to anyone" I think 'some' good riggers that keep their loft clean and count their tools would take offense at that statement being tossed out so casually. The statement that the rigger that forgot the packing weight was 'embarrassed' is likely a huge understatement - hell, I bet he was petrified that it happened and very upset with himself - if my experience with good riggers is any example. I'm not worried about an honest mistake, I would be worried about the rigger not learning from any issue and revising his procedures to do better.


(This post was edited by rehmwa on Jun 7, 2006, 8:29 AM)


TCMRigging  (D 24098)

Jun 7, 2006, 8:31 AM
Post #19 of 88 (4506 views)
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Re: [jdthomas] finding suprises during a repack [In reply to] Can't Post

He could have kept the area clea, but needed a kleenex to blow his nose. Maybe the rigger was allergic to cats and the owner of the rig had cats. I would be more worried about how much the guy was sneezing or how sick he was during the repack. I would give the previous rigger a call and let them know about it.

Chris


TCMRigging  (D 24098)

Jun 7, 2006, 8:49 AM
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Re: [TCMRigging] finding suprises during a repack [In reply to] Can't Post

This actually reminded me of an event that scared the hell out of me. I keep my area clean and use a checklist for my tools.

I had recently packed a pilot rig, when I pack a pilot rig I use a different set of temp pins than normal (blunt tip pins). I packed the rig checked off the tools, put them away and filed the paper work. About a week later I moved to a different DZ when the one I was at closed down. A few weeks later I had another pilot rig, I packed it up and started to close the rig. Only problem is two temp pins with orange flags and my name on them were missing. I grabbed my paperwork saw that I had checked them off the list. I was still scared as hell about where those pins were. I called the guy with the pilot rig and he brought the rig in. I Opened it up and no pins, after that embarassing moment I could at least sleep again. But I was still worried about those temp pins. A few days had gone by and the DZO asked me to help move some display cases that he bought from the old DZ. I went to help him move them and right there in the cases were two orange flagged temp pins with my name on them. I was so damn happy that I found them and could finally relax. I told the DZO about it and he said, oh yeah I grabbed those out of a tool box at the old DZ to take apart the display cases, when he went to put them back the tool box was gone so he left them in the case. I could have killed him over that one. I no longer use those damn orange flagged temp pins and only keep two at the most in my box at all times. If I did not check my tools back in after each repack I probably would have called every person I packed in that 3 week period.

Chris


masterrig  (D License)

Jun 7, 2006, 10:28 AM
Post #21 of 88 (4458 views)
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Re: [TCMRigging] finding suprises during a repack [In reply to] Can't Post

That, will definately cause sleepless nights! The way you handled it took nerve, too. Calling the owner and all. That's what we're all about. I don't think, I'd worry too much about a used Kleenex. I was more concerned when I found 4 Korean made links on the risers and the barrels were less than 'finger' tight, the risers tacked to the pack-tray with 5-cord Nylon, the bridle was made from 550 suspension line, a large tear in the pilot chute of a pilot rig. I thought it was a test! The previous rigger and the owner and I, had quite a phone conversation. The rigger told me that the guy would 'probably' never use it! You never know, what you'll find.


Chuck


(This post was edited by masterrig on Jun 7, 2006, 10:44 AM)


jdthomas  (D License)

Jun 7, 2006, 11:15 AM
Post #22 of 88 (4438 views)
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Re: [rehmwa] finding suprises during a repack [In reply to] Can't Post

 Rehmwa
I was unsure what to do about the kleenex.
So I posted the topic and then looked at a few answers from outside sources.
I would have liked to have contacted the last rigger, but I was at a bit of a snag with that one because the rig was wet and the packing data cards where taken out of the rig by the owner before I got the rig. So I did not know who packed the rig last and had to make a new packaging data card for the rig.
The owner is a friend of mine so I have a talk with him about what I found and how we should handle it and how I would prefer to take care of this situation.
Part of me wanted to keep it between myself and the other rigger, but I also felt that to be unfair to my customer as he is also my close friend.
Since the rigs last repack was done by the rig manufacture then I felt I would allow him to do as he wished with finding stuff inside.
His choice was to let it go and move along in life. not really a big deal to him.
did this situation depend on what was inside the rig, packing wieght vs kleenex? No in my mind there is little diffrence.
If I was the rigger would I prefer that someone contact me and not tell my customer. No I want al parties to be involved and I would take the blame as needed.
Joe


rehmwa  (D 12816)

Jun 7, 2006, 11:30 AM
Post #23 of 88 (4426 views)
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Re: [jdthomas] finding suprises during a repack [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
...packing wieght vs kleenex? No in my mind there is little diffrence......someone contact me and not tell my customer

Thanks for that. The only issue I have (I don't rig) is that it's the customer's rig and the customer's life. That person deserves to know everything and anything before jumping another pack job from that same rigger. Even if it's a nit and the customer is a known whiner.

If you don't tell the customer yourself, you have to find a way to GUARANTEE the original rigger tells them.

scenario - you find a packing weight. You tell the other rigger what happened, he's all 'mea culpa, won't happen again'. You believe him. Next pack cycle your customer goes back to the other guy (BTW, the original rigger never said a thing to the customer, you didn't followup either).

This customer goes in due to a temp pin being left in place (no AAD on this guy either). You know that if you had told that customer about the packing weight, he'd have likely not used that rigger again.

It's not your fault, the other rigger screwed up, the customer chose to use that guy for that cycle, etc.

Regardless, how do you feel?

it's not that big a deal - customer picks up the rig
"hey, Johnny, I found some loose crap in one of your cells during the inspection. I called the last rigger and let him know (or who was your last rigger? I need to let him know)"

"thanks for the info jd, what did you find? could it have been an issue?" more likely, "whatever, I gotta go get on this load"

.....


BobWright  (E 8)

Jun 7, 2006, 2:27 PM
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Re: [jdthomas] finding suprises during a repack [In reply to] Can't Post

This reminded me of something that happened in about 1983. Someone called me up wanting to sell his late 70's Wonderhog (2-pin predecessor of the Vector). He had been jumping but decided to give it up. He came out and we popped open the reserve to inspect it. Neatly hidden under the pilot chute were two temporary pins with very short flags on them!

I did decide to buy the rig from him and never saw him again. He did say he'd be speaking to the rigger who'd packed it...


rigger_john  (C 101098)

Jun 8, 2006, 2:31 AM
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Re: [BobWright] finding suprises during a repack [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Someone called me up wanting to sell his late 70's Wonderhog (2-pin predecessor of the Vector).

"predecessor"! Don't you mean pre minor changeWinkWinkWink


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