Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Freeflying:
Learning to sit-fly - with weights?

 

First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

JohnGraham  (B 104505)

May 8, 2006, 5:56 AM
Post #1 of 26 (2529 views)
Shortcut
Learning to sit-fly - with weights? Can't Post

I will [finally!] be learning to sit-fly this coming weekend and I had a thought about weight belts.

I'm a lanky runt so I have to wear 20lbs of lead to keep up with all the real skydivers when I'm flat-flying, but what considerations would there be when learning to freefly?

For starters, will it be easier to learn one way or the other, or would it not make any difference at all?
How easy/hard would I find it to transition from FFing with weights to FFing without weights?
Will another jumper have potential problems keeping up with a feather-weight newbie who can't really put too much speed on in his early jumps, or will going into more of a stand position to keep up with them be easy for me to do?
Is there anything else I'm not thinking of here?


DrewGPM  (D 23986)

May 8, 2006, 8:08 AM
Post #2 of 26 (2496 views)
Shortcut
Re: [JohnGraham] Learning to sit-fly - with weights? [In reply to] Can't Post

you shouldn't need weights when you sit. Some of fastest sit-flyer I know are tall skinny people. Start out with no weights and see how it goes.

What I have seen some people do is wear ankle weights when they start to sit-fly. The extra weight helps them keep thier feet down. Not keeping the feet down seems like the most common problem for new sit-flyers.

That just helps with learning to sit, it is not a fall rate aid, like it is when you fly on your belly.


Zoter

May 8, 2006, 10:24 AM
Post #3 of 26 (2472 views)
Shortcut
Re: [JohnGraham] Learning to sit-fly - with weights? [In reply to] Can't Post

You dont need weights at all to start freeflying....
The speed range in freeflying is much more 'dynamic' than it is flatflying....so just get coaching and learn how to control your fall rate and stability during the top and bottom ends of your fall rate .... safely

There are lots of ways to speed up...and slow down freeflying....using your body, not weights


(This post was edited by Zoter on May 8, 2006, 10:25 AM)


bradp  (D 1019)

May 8, 2006, 5:20 PM
Post #4 of 26 (2408 views)
Shortcut
Re: [JohnGraham] Learning to sit-fly - with weights? [In reply to] Can't Post

I would definately not recommend using weights ever in freeflying.

You need to learn to fly your body in any position and at any speed that is required to keep up with whoever you may be jumping with at that moment in time, without relying on weights to do the work for you.

I would recommend jumping a relatively (not ridiculously) tight jump suit with minimal drag. That can definately increase your fall rate considerably.

I'm 67 kg's and have no problems flying with people 30kg's more than me. Weight is definately not as big an issue in freeflying as it is in belly flying.


karenmeal  (D 24737)

May 8, 2006, 5:32 PM
Post #5 of 26 (2406 views)
Shortcut
Re: [DrewGPM] Learning to sit-fly - with weights? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ankle weights?

Are you serious?

I've never heard of that.


cutaway1  (C 3355)

May 8, 2006, 6:35 PM
Post #6 of 26 (2395 views)
Shortcut
Re: [JohnGraham] Learning to sit-fly - with weights? [In reply to] Can't Post

Not using a jump suit will help, shorts and a tee shirt will do. So many beginning light freeflyers spend money on nice looking suits that only slow them down and really make it hard for them to keep up the speed.


atticus  (B 27684)

May 8, 2006, 7:07 PM
Post #7 of 26 (2393 views)
Shortcut
Re: [DrewGPM] Learning to sit-fly - with weights? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
you shouldn't need weights when you sit. Some of fastest sit-flyer I know are tall skinny people. Start out with no weights and see how it goes.

What I have seen some people do is wear ankle weights when they start to sit-fly. The extra weight helps them keep thier feet down. Not keeping the feet down seems like the most common problem for new sit-flyers.

That just helps with learning to sit, it is not a fall rate aid, like it is when you fly on your belly.

LMAO!Laugh Don't take advice from belly guys especially when it comes to freeflying. If you strap weights to your ankles you will probably injure your back when you deploy.


mattjw916  (D License)

May 9, 2006, 10:15 PM
Post #8 of 26 (2320 views)
Shortcut
Re: [DrewGPM] Learning to sit-fly - with weights? [In reply to] Can't Post

ankle weights??? um riiiiiight...

Lots of drag on top + shorts is a good way to practice until you get the feel of it.

Tunnel makes a huge difference too if it's available.

Most common problem I see with new sitflyers is not keeping the torso straight/leaning forward causing a backslide. That, and not getting those lower legs/feet down perpendicular to the relative wind and letting them fold up under their body towards their butt.


McDuck  (C 35093)

May 10, 2006, 4:06 AM
Post #9 of 26 (2301 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mattjw916] Learning to sit-fly - with weights? [In reply to] Can't Post

Weak legs, not being able to maintain positive, even leg pressure in a sit, appears to be one of the biggest problems for beginning freeflyers early on. This may sound silly, but if you have a job where you sit fairly frequently, here's a little exercise I used to build up that muscle memory in my legs:

Slide forward in your chair until you are able to position your legs a little more than shoulder-width apart and forming as close to 90-degree angles at your hips and knees as possible. Make sure you are able to keep your upper body posture correct (not leaning forward or backward) as well. Now press down evenly with both feet until you begin to feel the pressure of your butt in the seat decrease, but not to the point where you are no longer in contact with the chair. Hold this for as long as you can up to a minute, then release it. Repeat this as often as you remember, for up to one minute each time. Try not to press down with only your heels or only your toes, but with even pressure along both feet. If you are in a chair that rolls, back it up against a wall or desk that won't move on you.

I'm not saying this is an absolute fix for weak legs early on, but it certainly helped me build that muscle memory and learn what it would feel like to exert that pressure evenly with both legs.


ntacfreefly

May 10, 2006, 7:16 AM
Post #10 of 26 (2291 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mattjw916] Learning to sit-fly - with weights? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Lots of drag on top + shorts is a good way to practice until you get the feel of it.

No it's not. It's a great way to build dependance on your arms for flying which is exactly what you DON'T want.

Quote:
Most common problem I see with new sitflyers is not keeping the torso straight/leaning forward causing a backslide. That, and not getting those lower legs/feet down perpendicular to the relative wind and letting them fold up under their body towards their butt.

Yeah, I agree. It's pretty much a universal thing too.

To the original poster, MOST fallrate issues with sit flying are related to leaning forward (the most common mistake for everyone to make) or not having enough pressure to keep your knees below your hips like Matt has already pointed out.

Try and get some video and make sure that your body position and technique are appropriate. I agree with people that weights are not necessary (although I can see what Drew was trying to achieve with their usage).

McDuck wrote:
Quote:
Slide forward in your chair until you are able to position your legs a little more than shoulder-width apart and forming as close to 90-degree angles at your hips and knees as possible. Make sure you are able to keep your upper body posture correct (not leaning forward or backward) as well. Now press down evenly with both feet until you begin to feel the pressure of your butt in the seat decrease, but not to the point where you are no longer in contact with the chair.

This is a technique I use often to teach people what kind of pressure they should expect to feel on their legs and feet.

Blues,
Ian


(This post was edited by ntacfreefly on May 10, 2006, 7:19 AM)


mattjw916  (D License)

May 10, 2006, 12:46 PM
Post #11 of 26 (2270 views)
Shortcut
Re: [ntacfreefly] Learning to sit-fly - with weights? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
No it's not. It's a great way to build dependance on your arms for flying which is exactly what you DON'T want.

I still like it to just give people a taste of what it's like to get vertical. I prefer equal drag top and bottom personally but some people just need a little more help to start. I agree it builds dependance on arms, which is bad, and a problem I still struggle with, to a limited extent, in the tunnel. I don't have the problem in the sky though. Probably since my freefly suit has less drag than the tunnel suits I wear normally.


Fast  (D 28237)

May 11, 2006, 10:22 AM
Post #12 of 26 (2227 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mattjw916] Learning to sit-fly - with weights? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
No it's not. It's a great way to build dependance on your arms for flying which is exactly what you DON'T want.

I still like it to just give people a taste of what it's like to get vertical. I prefer equal drag top and bottom personally but some people just need a little more help to start. I agree it builds dependance on arms, which is bad, and a problem I still struggle with, to a limited extent, in the tunnel. I don't have the problem in the sky though. Probably since my freefly suit has less drag than the tunnel suits I wear normally.

The problem is when you give a person the taste of this, then they get stuck with bad habbits right off from the start. There is no good reason to want bad habbits. Screw getting a taste, learn it right from the start so you don't waste time and money fixing problems from doing it wrong for so long.

It might help a person get upright, it wont help them learn to sitfly (feetfly) so they will know how to do it and have all the bad habbits. I know this cause I did it and am STILL trying to fix problems with my sit from learning in shorts and a long sleave shirt.


Nickkk  (C 35901)

May 11, 2006, 3:28 PM
Post #13 of 26 (2208 views)
Shortcut
Re: [ntacfreefly] Learning to sit-fly - with weights? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
McDuck wrote:
Quote:
Slide forward in your chair until you are able to position your legs a little more than shoulder-width apart and forming as close to 90-degree angles at your hips and knees as possible. Make sure you are able to keep your upper body posture correct (not leaning forward or backward) as well. Now press down evenly with both feet until you begin to feel the pressure of your butt in the seat decrease, but not to the point where you are no longer in contact with the chair.

This is a technique I use often to teach people what kind of pressure they should expect to feel on their legs and feet.

Blues,
Ian

When i do this my outer calf muscles tense up alot, is this right or is it too much force?


McDuck  (C 35093)

May 11, 2006, 4:38 PM
Post #14 of 26 (2203 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Nickkk] Learning to sit-fly - with weights? [In reply to] Can't Post

Your calf muscles are going to tense up a bit because the resistance you're encountering is obviously not like what you'll experience in the air. This is mainly a little exercise I used when I first started freeflying so that my legs would remember what it was like to maintain a constant, even pressure for one full minute. Based on what Chris and others have mentioned, if you still want to do this exercise, you might want to try and adjust your chair so that you are in less of a sitting position, perhaps in between a sit and a stand, but less than halfway to a stand. Again, this worked for me, but I was merely trying to teach my wandering legs what it felt like to hold steady pressure on my feet in that position.


hookitt  (D License)

May 11, 2006, 5:39 PM
Post #15 of 26 (2196 views)
Shortcut
Re: [McDuck] Learning to sit-fly - with weights? [In reply to] Can't Post

Do the same exercise without the chair, with your back against a pole or a wall. It's more intense but the right muscles are used, and you can get the exact position you want. Try it with out the chair for a while and acclimate your body to that position and feeling.

It's much easier in the sky but you still have to resist the air.

You have to be strong, but not rigid. If you are flying rigid, you can't feel the air, if you fly strong, but still are able to move the limbs, the sensation of the air against parts of the body is much easier to feel.

Hope that made sense.


DrewGPM  (D 23986)

May 12, 2006, 11:14 PM
Post #16 of 26 (2149 views)
Shortcut
Re: [atticus] Learning to sit-fly - with weights? [In reply to] Can't Post

I find it funny that you want to reject the information simply because it is coming from a belly flyer. But that's a whole different conversation.

The ankle weights thing isn't my idea...I know a half dozen people who used this technique to help them learn to sit. Not sure where they learned it, but it seems to work.

Wearing weights is not neccesary for freeflying, just as it is not neccesary to fly on your belly. Learn to fly your body. However, wearing weights can be a great tool for belly flying, and they might be a useful tool for freeflying. The question is how do you use the tool?

The difference in this case is that for freeflying the weight is not being used to adjust fall rate. It is being used to help teach proper body position.

The ankle weights made it easier for these people to keep their feet underneath them...which has already been identified as one of the problems for beginning sit flyers. The extra couple pounds helped overcome the weak legs issue. The weight help push your feet down, putting you in the right position. That means you are now able to focus on learning how to control your fall rate with your hips and the angle of bend in your knees.

The concern about hurting the back seems real, but none of the people I've talked to have had a back problem. I suspect if you strap 20 pounds to each ankle, you might have a problem...hell, you'll have trouble walking to plane! But 3-5 pounds doesn't appear to be a problem. If someone already has back or knee problems, then this might be a bad idea.

Using weights to make you fall faster, no way. But if you are having trouble keeping your feet underneath you when try to push your feet down, this might help.

Once you get your feet in the right spot, you can use your hips and change the amount of bend in your knees to adjust your fall rate. Once you get the feel of the body position, try it without the weights. And for the love of god, don't use so much weight that it screws up your back! Start with a couple pounds and see how it feels.


flyboyne  (D 29401)

May 14, 2006, 9:03 PM
Post #17 of 26 (2108 views)
Shortcut
Re: [karenmeal] Learning to sit-fly - with weights? [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope you dont jump near any big bodies of water!


karenmeal  (D 24737)

May 15, 2006, 7:47 AM
Post #18 of 26 (2095 views)
Shortcut
Re: [flyboyne] Learning to sit-fly - with weights? [In reply to] Can't Post

Umm.. I don't.. but I think you were replying to the guy reccommending ankle weights.


brianfry713  (D 28665)

May 16, 2006, 3:12 PM
Post #19 of 26 (2042 views)
Shortcut
Re: [mattjw916] Learning to sit-fly - with weights? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Lots of drag on top + shorts is a good way to practice until you get the feel of it.

Sounds like a sit suit.


atticus  (B 27684)

May 16, 2006, 5:05 PM
Post #20 of 26 (2036 views)
Shortcut
Re: [DrewGPM] Learning to sit-fly - with weights? [In reply to] Can't Post

Sounds great! Now when he is ready for head down just duct tape some lead to his helmet and you've got a future Olav on you hands. Fantastic I'm in!


Brumby  (C 104799)

May 17, 2006, 1:08 PM
Post #21 of 26 (2000 views)
Shortcut
Re: [cutaway1] Learning to sit-fly - with weights? [In reply to] Can't Post

Ouch, ur having a laugh ant ya. We live in the UK! Shorts and T-Shirts dont even get worn on the ground over here Tongue


(This post was edited by Brumby on May 17, 2006, 1:09 PM)


Paige

May 18, 2006, 4:20 PM
Post #22 of 26 (1953 views)
Shortcut
Re: [JohnGraham] Learning to sit-fly - with weights? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Will another jumper have potential problems keeping up with a feather-weight newbie who can't really put too much speed on in his early jumps, or will going into more of a stand position to keep up with them be easy for me to do?

Find a tunnel rat to jump w. Wink Hope you have had much success w. your freefly jumps. Stay safe, stick w. it, share pics Smile


oval-zipper  (F 1)

May 22, 2006, 3:00 PM
Post #23 of 26 (1906 views)
Shortcut
Re: [atticus] Learning to sit-fly - with weights? [In reply to] Can't Post

duct tape lead to his helmet???? surely that will make him fall hips first??? and chafe quite a bit too....make sure u clear this with his partner first... hard opening may cause a dropping of 2 previously unconsidered extra 'space balls'
Cool


oval-zipper  (F 1)

May 22, 2006, 3:17 PM
Post #24 of 26 (1901 views)
Shortcut
Re: [oval-zipper] Learning to sit-fly - with weights? [In reply to] Can't Post

and dont forget a potential 'space rocket' too....it wont be a pretty sight.

Pirate


atticus  (B 27684)

May 22, 2006, 6:44 PM
Post #25 of 26 (1885 views)
Shortcut
Re: [Paige] Learning to sit-fly - with weights? [In reply to] Can't Post

You tunnel rats suk. It's not fair, in fact it's almost like cheating. You get so good at flying so fast. I don't have enough $$ to skydive every week and spend hours in the tunnel. I might just set down my rig for a little while and get some tunnel time in. It turns out to be slightly cheaper than skydiving.


First page Previous page 1 2 Next page Last page  View All

Forums : Skydiving Disciplines : Freeflying

 


Search for (options)