Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Photography and Video:
PC in tow, then horseshoe mal.

 

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lolla87  (C 104554)

May 1, 2006, 4:03 AM
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PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. Can't Post

On thursday I luckily survived a fairly bad malfunction after pulling my PC through the wing of my camera suit.

I havent been jumping with camera for long and have done about 30 camera suit jumps.

After the event I had my suit inspected by some experienced camera people and our rigger and it was decided that the gap between the clip and where the wing joins at the waist was too big. Infact when i'm arched the wing blows back past my hackey.

I had a full camera suit brief before I started using my suit and was always careful to hook my arm around the back of the wing on pull, but I still managed to grab that hackey through the gap without knowing it. I'm going to have the suit adjusted before I use it again.

If you're new to the camera suit, double check that gap!!

I'd put the video up on skydivingmovies if I knew how, but ive attatched a still from the footage.


(This post was edited by lolla87 on May 1, 2006, 4:03 AM)
Attachments: Picture.jpg (84.2 KB)


piisfish

May 1, 2006, 4:09 AM
Post #2 of 31 (2786 views)
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Re: [lolla87] PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. [In reply to] Can't Post

glad you're here to talk about it. What did you do after ? Cutaway and pull silver ?

there is a "upload" button on skydivingmovies. Click there, upload the video file. Then it will be validated in some time (usually quite quickly)


(This post was edited by piisfish on May 1, 2006, 4:10 AM)


lolla87  (C 104554)

May 1, 2006, 4:28 AM
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Re: [piisfish] PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. [In reply to] Can't Post

I turned belly to earth, cutaway then pulled the reserve. My RSL held one riser to my shoulder though.

I dont know how to put footage onto the computer.


outlawphx  (D 15712)

May 1, 2006, 4:45 AM
Post #4 of 31 (2773 views)
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Re: [lolla87] PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. [In reply to] Can't Post

That's a scary a** picture, and I'm glad you came out of that OK!

There was a fatality recently due to the same circumstances, but the jumper tried to cut through the bridle of his main PC before going for his reserve.

Also, RSL's are generally considered to be a bad idea while jumping camera, due to the possible snag hazards. If you haven't already, I'd recommend doing a seach on the subject.


dragon2  (D 101989)

May 1, 2006, 6:36 AM
Post #5 of 31 (2742 views)
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Re: [lolla87] PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. [In reply to] Can't Post

You need a firewire cable and a firewire port on your pc, and a capture program (windows movie maker is free). Import the footage, drag the clip onto the timeline, add titles/fades/... if you want, then export as a not-too-big wmv file (for instance), upload to skydivemovies Wink


piisfish

May 1, 2006, 6:51 AM
Post #6 of 31 (2730 views)
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Re: [lolla87] PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I dont know how to put footage onto the computer.
what do you do with your footage usually ??


Stumpy  (C 104288)

May 1, 2006, 11:04 AM
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Re: [piisfish] PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. [In reply to] Can't Post

that dz uses a linear editing suite.


(This post was edited by Stumpy on May 1, 2006, 11:09 AM)


piisfish

May 1, 2006, 2:28 PM
Post #8 of 31 (2581 views)
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Re: [Stumpy] PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. [In reply to] Can't Post

OK cool.

Just really glad it ended better than my mal, and MUCH better than other mals... We learn everyday


MB38  (A 48618)

May 1, 2006, 2:48 PM
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Re: [lolla87] PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. [In reply to] Can't Post

How did you get a still from the footage onto the computer if the footage isn't on the computer?

Good job not dying. Beer!


lolla87  (C 104554)

May 1, 2006, 2:55 PM
Post #10 of 31 (2570 views)
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Re: [MB38] PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. [In reply to] Can't Post

I took a still from the footage onto my memory stick, then put it into my friends digital camera and uploaded from there.


jtval  (D 26340)

May 1, 2006, 5:41 PM
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Re: [lolla87] PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. [In reply to] Can't Post

congrats on saving your ass. ( a said saving,not shaving. please no picsWink)



Well I must say that is a scary mal you had there. I had one similar but it was hooked to a loop in my pocket. I also didnt have an RSL.

as someone mentioned, do a little research on rsl and cam flying. I would love to see the vid. is there someone who can help you upload it?

what ALT were you when you found your self in your saddle. and how far off did you land? were there any obstacles? you did buy beer, right? ( even if it wasnt your first reserve ride)


napaguy99  (D 28158)

May 1, 2006, 7:31 PM
Post #12 of 31 (2497 views)
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Re: [lolla87] PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
I havent been jumping with camera for long...

After the event I had my suit inspected...

and where the wing joins at the waist was too big.


Sooooo maybe in retrospect- 200 jumps and jumping camera already: perhaps a bit early?? Not to mention with a wing that's too big. Has this incident made you think about possibly hanging up the camera helmet until you get some more experience? Maybe at the least getting a smaller wing for your camera suit?

Also, having the suit inspected AFTER the fact? This is one of the things you should have been thinking about BEFORE this type of thing happened.

I'm glad you're alive and here to tell your tale. Now let's all take away some lessons from it. Someone should have seen your suit and said "Hmmm. Maybe that's not the best 1st suit for you. As a matter of fact, maybe you shouldn't be jumping a camera and camera suit with 200 jumps."


pilotdave  (D License)

May 1, 2006, 8:52 PM
Post #13 of 31 (2482 views)
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Re: PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. [In reply to] Can't Post

It's clear from the picture what brand of camera suit it was, so I'm wondering if anyone can comment on this kind of gap. Is it caused by the jumper or the suit manufacturer?

I JUST started jumping a camera 2 days ago, so I'm trying to learn as much as possible before adding new stuff like a camera suit. Are some brands better than others, or is it caused by the way the suit is worn/adjusted?

BTW, here's a video that appears to be the same sort of incident although I'm not totally sure: http://www.skydivingmovies.com/...ion=file&id=3601

Dave


Fuzzy  (D 26596)

May 1, 2006, 9:23 PM
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Re: [lolla87] PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. [In reply to] Can't Post

This may sound like a dumb question but it's not clear from the picture. Which way were the wings attached, in front or behind your legs. Also how tight did you have the bottom attachement adjusted?

From the picture it almost looks like the strap or clips to attach the wings went around behind your legs to the inside attachment, or the bottom adjustment came real loose. Can you just confirm this?

I have a couple thousand jumps on my Bev Suit (it's got the big wings) and one of the things I like is that the attachment point on the inside of the leg, and the wing in front of the leg makes that gap much smaller, too small to reach my hand through and get the pilot chute "IF" the wing is adjusted properly.

I did find that the lower adjustment if yours has one can come loose / undone in the wind. What I did to stop that was (very soon after getting the suite like after a couple jumps) sew the lower adjustment strap permanently down.

Just curious about how you had yours adusted or set up.

Thanks


jtval  (D 26340)

May 1, 2006, 10:21 PM
Post #15 of 31 (2458 views)
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Re: [pilotdave] PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. [In reply to] Can't Post

dave,
I jump a tony suit (even thought the send the wrong colors on my brand new custom suit GRRRRMad).
they have no loops to pull through.
(i dont need the full lenght wing)


BigBUG  (D License)

May 2, 2006, 12:44 AM
Post #16 of 31 (2437 views)
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Re: [lolla87] PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. [In reply to] Can't Post

Damn, this is a scary picture.
It is great you are OK.

Do you really need such big wings?
It seems to me that if you have such gap in the wing, that it will not work properly anyway. Maybe it will be a good idea to change it to a smaller wing without this gap?

Once again, you a lucky one :)


stratostar  (Student)

May 2, 2006, 5:38 AM
Post #17 of 31 (2389 views)
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Re: [Fuzzy] PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
I like is that the attachment point on the inside of the leg, and the wing in front of the leg makes that gap much smaller, too small to reach my hand through and get the pilot chute "IF" the wing is adjusted properly.

I would agree 100%, I have a tony "c"wing jacket and my wing clips are on the leg strap of the rig just above the buckle. With or with out the swoop cord there is no gap to pull thru, we learned this years ago, and I'm surprised a more experienced camera flyer didn't point this out before he made jump one with it.
Then again I have seen a lot of new guys who blow off good advice and think they know it all till they learn the hard way that what we were saying was true.
(not saying that is the case here)
If your going to start to jump camera you better think about all the what if's and double check all your shit then double check it again before you jump.

Make some jumps with just the wing, get used to it, then add the video only, get used to the two, after you get used to that, then add the still camera on.
Make sure you can get rid of the helmet if you need to. (cutaway system)

The biggest mistake I see people make is getting in a hurry to do it all to soon, people need to slow down and take the time to learn.
You can't just spend your money strap the shit on a be a camera man making money on jump one, you should plan on making 100 jumps for free to learn.
This is one of the most dangerous jumps you can make and you always need to keep that in mind forever.

I glad to hear this poster made out ok and I hope others learn something from his post.

~


Fuzzy  (D 26596)

May 2, 2006, 9:44 AM
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Re: [stratostar] PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. [In reply to] Can't Post

One of the advantages to being from a relatively small dz is being able to control things like this.

People (usually) know to ask first but even if they don't it's easy enough to stop some of this before it happens. I have no problem telling someone they can't jump a camera yet, or to back up a little in what they are trying. They read the print outs of things like this incident (a few are kept at the dropzone for just this reason) and seem to understand.

My breifings to the new camera guys includes camera suites, and they are told do a couple of solos minimum, with no camera to find out the quirks of it, and they are to do practice pulls and pull high so they have time to get a feel for the swoop cords, see if they can reach toggles etc. They're also warned about swoop cords, gloves, snags.

They are told to play with it to find out what it will do to them in certain postions since wings can do funny things if your not used to it. Some people think this is "dumb" or "over cautious" but usually appreciate it after the fact.

Anyway, glad to see I'm not the only one who feels camera suits need to be part of progression & treated with some form of respect.

Btw: Saw your pic's in the other thread - Very Cool & Nice!!!

Thanks

Fuzzy


lolla87  (C 104554)

May 2, 2006, 10:01 AM
Post #19 of 31 (2318 views)
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Re: [jtval] PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. [In reply to] Can't Post

My protrack says that deployment altitude was 1300.
I actually made it back to the landing area and yes, I bought beer.

I made 25 jumps with the suit only before I used a camera too.
I did of course have my set up inspected BEFORE I jumped it.
I'm not sure whether total jump numbers and the chances of pulling through a wing are related.... The number of camera suit jumps perhaps. Even someone with 1000 jumps has to make a 1st camera suit jump.
I think that whats important is whether or not youre going to be able to deal with a situation if you have to.

My wings clip around the back of my legs. The strap didn't come undone. I'm going to have the whole thing adjusted before I jump it again.

My aim is to film tandems and before I chose the suit I was advised by my colleagues to get big wings.

I have managed to upload the video onto skydivingmovies and am just waiting for it to be accepted.


Edit: Its up! here is a link to the page. http://www.skydivingmovies.com/...ion=file&id=3803


(This post was edited by lolla87 on May 2, 2006, 10:08 AM)


stratostar  (Student)

May 2, 2006, 10:09 AM
Post #20 of 31 (2314 views)
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Re: [lolla87] PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. [In reply to] Can't Post

With out being able to see your suit on you, I would think moving the "clips" to the inside of the leg might be the best bet, this would keep the seam tight along your body, if set up right there should be no gap or at least a very, very small one.

Now that you have lived thru this I'm sure you won't do it again, or want to.
After seeing this happen live in front of me when I was starting out, I have always kept my design tight aginst my torso for this reason.
Again glad to hear your alright.

~


stratostar  (Student)

May 2, 2006, 10:11 AM
Post #21 of 31 (2312 views)
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Re: [Fuzzy] PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Btw: Saw your pic's in the other thread - Very Cool & Nice!!!

Thanks for the flowers.Smile

~


vdschoor  (D 27300)

May 2, 2006, 10:12 AM
Post #22 of 31 (2311 views)
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Re: [lolla87] PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
My protrack says that deployment altitude was 1300.
.......
My wings clip around the back of my legs. The strap didn't come undone. I'm going to have the whole thing adjusted before I jump it again.

My aim is to film tandems and before I chose the suit I was advised by my colleagues to get big wings.

I have managed to upload the video onto skydivingmovies and am just waiting for it to be accepted.

Your response sounds like you know exactly what you're doing, and you don't really want our advice / feedback, which is great...

Wings attached around the BACK of your legs? I've NEVER heard or seen ANY camera suit that has that kind of attachment.

you want the wings attached either in front or on the side of your legs (I have a FliteSuit camera suit and it attaches on the legs)

Be safe, and have someone take a better look at your suit and how your wings are connected.

In the photo you can see how my wings are attached, and these are teh largest wings you can get for a FliteSuit


(This post was edited by vdschoor on May 2, 2006, 10:13 AM)
Attachments: IMG_1212edit.jpg (79.6 KB)


lolla87  (C 104554)

May 2, 2006, 10:19 AM
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Re: [vdschoor] PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Your response sounds like you know exactly what you're doing, and you don't really want our advice / feedback, which is great...
I don't understand.

The clips are on the inside of my leg but the wing goes around the back of my leg.
Im just doing what I was told by the camerapeople at my DZ.


Fuzzy  (D 26596)

May 2, 2006, 10:42 AM
Post #24 of 31 (2292 views)
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Re: [lolla87] PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. [In reply to] Can't Post

The wing on the Bev Suit should be routed "IN Front" of your leg, NOT around behind. This is one of the reasons you have such a large gap there.

If you do this (put the clip/strap infront of the leg)and still have a large gap then shorten the lower adjustment. As mentioned in my first post, I am unable to reach my hand between the wing and my body/leg. In fact the wing has yet to even get in the way of the deployment, and it is the large wing

Putting it in front should also increase the effectiveness of your wing.


stratostar  (Student)

May 2, 2006, 11:18 AM
Post #25 of 31 (2278 views)
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Re: [lolla87] PC in tow, then horseshoe mal. [In reply to] Can't Post

My attachment point.
As you can see it is hooked up to the top of my leg strap, with your larger wing this placement won't work for you, but you need to have no to little gap.

~


(This post was edited by stratostar on May 2, 2006, 11:20 AM)
Attachments: Picture-038.jpg (98.5 KB)


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