Forums: Skydiving Disciplines: Photography and Video:
video tandem question when tandem delays drogue chute

 


airborne82nd  (C License)

Mar 21, 2006, 7:37 AM
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video tandem question when tandem delays drogue chute Can't Post

What do you video folks do when the tandem delays drogue chute throw due to many reasons say student not in proper atitute or psoition or the many reasons or say personalll taste of the tandem master.

you have a good exit your right there and you expect the drogue chute to come out and then they start to fall below you. and 4 seconds later the drogue chute comes out and they are way below and it takes you 5-10 seconds to get there.

some who freeflys can go into a sit. i dive down in a delta while keeping them in frame and get there asap of course

sometimes i dont feel i get there quick enough, ( it has only happend say 7 times ) video still truns out good but i am looking for different solutions.

I dont sit fly very well yet, i back fly and freak fly ok and i can head down dive but as far as head down vrw no way.

One time on a no pay video i was tracking at the plane and at the tandem and they went low i barrel roll tracked head down basically not true head down stayed with them and when they deployed the drouge i rolled over and luckily never lost them in the frame they were not in the middle of the frame but ok enough.

anyone recomend anything or any techniques??

i fly rw tony suit on most tandems vids, i have a freefly suit i wear also and for the light 95 lbs chicks i have a camera suit with botties. so my range is great as far as falling very fast or real slow dressing for sucsess ect..

but when the tandem gets low i have to play catch up.

anyhelp be realy appreciiated.


ltdiver  (D 20506)

Mar 21, 2006, 7:56 AM
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Re: [airborne82nd] video tandem question when tandem delays drogue chute [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
anyhelp be realy appreciiated

On your off days (when not working, that is Tongue) take time to go learn to freefly. Ths is a skill you'll need when drougeless freefall happens with your tandems and a skill that will take you far in the years to come. Smile

It's all about marketability, right? Wink

ltdiver


davelepka  (D 21448)

Mar 21, 2006, 8:10 AM
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Re: [airborne82nd] video tandem question when tandem delays drogue chute [In reply to] Can't Post

 
All you can do is suck it up and get there as fast as you can. Never ever do anything on a video jump that you don't feel 100% about. Especially when it comes to building up some big speed, save that shit for solos or fun jumps.

You can fly more defensively in the mean time. On exit, come off early (as usual) and relax on closing the gap at first. If the drouge is delayed, they will come down to you, and as you see this happening, you can punch it out, and fight to stay under them.

When you see the TM reach for the drouge, maybe relax a touch, but not too much. Only when you see it clear the pouch, get aggressive, trow out the wings, and get up there.

It's like this, before the drouge is out, the tandem can go faster than you. Your mindset should be to stay lower then them at that time. If they do start going faster then you can, you have a buffer zone where first they have to catch up to you before they can smoke you.

Conversely, if you have a really slow falling pair, try to stay as high on them as you can. Lets say the pair slows down for a bit, first they have to float up to you, then pass you before you're low.

All of these concepts are just ways of thinking and flying. Exactly how low or high you are, and at what time depends on the situation, but I hope you see the idea. Be ahead of the curve. Undertand where you could get caught off gaurd, and fly yourself in such a way to keep that from happening, or at least minnimize the effects if it does happen.

Right up in their face is not always the smartest place to be. A few moments in a different location can set the satge for a better product in the end.

Edit: Thats another thing, whats the big rush to get there anyway? Is there another camera man out there racing you to the slot? Is the winner the one who gets paid?

Closing the gap can be used as a cinimatic tool. A steady approach, maybe with an orbit thrown in can really illustrate the open-ness of the sky, the altitude, the view, all of which are good things. If you're confident that you can get in your slot, and get the face shot, if it's a few seconds shorter, than so be it.

If there's a gap, see the positives, and utilize them. Focusing on the negative will only cause you to rush, which is never a good thing. You can dive at a tandem at 200 mph, as long as your brain is moving at a workable speed, and you're calm and in control.


(This post was edited by davelepka on Mar 21, 2006, 8:16 AM)


Miami  (D 17626)

Mar 21, 2006, 8:40 AM
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Re: [ltdiver] video tandem question when tandem delays drogue chute [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
On your off days (when not working, that is Tongue) take time to go learn to freefly. Ths is a skill you'll need when drougeless freefall happens with your tandems and a skill that will take you far in the years to come. Smile

It's all about marketability, right? Wink

This is exactly why videographers are the true "inventors" of freefly, long before people started doing it to look cool.Wink


Brains  (D License)

Mar 21, 2006, 9:11 AM
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Re: [airborne82nd] video tandem question when tandem delays drogue chute [In reply to] Can't Post

Ditto what Miami said.Laugh
I am by NO MEANS a great vidiot. However, i have learned that the longer you film, the more you will find yourself flying in positions that you didn't know you could do, and not really thinking about how to do it.Wink I had some outside video of me shooting a skysurfer, and i watched that and couldn't believe some of the things i was doing to stay with him and keep him in frame.Laugh


billo  (D 24379)

Mar 21, 2006, 10:21 AM
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Re: [Brains] video tandem question when tandem delays drogue chute [In reply to] Can't Post

yep, you'll just start doing all sorts of weird thing to keep up with them, depending on how quickly they pick up the speed, how big the TM or passenger are, etc. to keep up with my tandems who go drogueless for a bit i usually find myself knee flying, headdown, sitting, or just reaching back and grabbing my feet with my hands. the most important part in my opinion is to anticipate when the tandem is picking up more speed than usual and might be going drogueless, so that you can act immediately and gradually "step on the gas" to keep up instead of realizing that you need to play catch up and are already way behind.


steveorino  (D 26782)

Mar 21, 2006, 10:59 AM
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Re: [airborne82nd] video tandem question when tandem delays drogue chute [In reply to] Can't Post

One key would to not let there be such a gap bewteen you and the TM. I leave with tandem (no grips) and fly relative them as they dive out -- always staying clear of the drogue or the side the drogue will be deployed from) Then when the drogue is thrown, adjust. The key to ALL of this is "anticipate" don't wait until he throws the drogue to adjust, anticipate.


ParaShoot  (D 22759)

Mar 21, 2006, 12:51 PM
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Re: [steveorino] video tandem question when tandem delays drogue chute [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
One key would to not let there be such a gap between you and the TM.

That's the key. I started doing tandem video when they didn't have a drogue so I had to arch some more to keep up with them. When you exit on your belly you should always stay below and facing up. In this position you won't be in the danger zone for the droque and you can easily arch a little more to get some more speed. I'm pretty light weight and can still follow a drogue-less tandem if I need to. If you have to look down (to keep the tandem framed) your body is in a de-arch so it will be very difficult to catch up.

Of course once you get some more experience the best way is to learn to fly in any position. That'll give you a lot more range which can be applied a lot faster when necessary.


mwabd1  (D 25298)

Mar 21, 2006, 4:37 PM
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Re: [ParaShoot] video tandem question when tandem delays drogue chute [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think I can add much as all of the above apply. Drive to the tandem........the ability to fly head-down is good..........just remember to pull out of it in time to stay with your tandem!

________________________________________


lewmonst  (D 24575)

Mar 21, 2006, 11:34 PM
Post #10 of 14 (769 views)
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Re: [ltdiver] video tandem question when tandem delays drogue chute [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Quote:
anyhelp be realy appreciiated

On your off days (when not working, that is Tongue) take time to go learn to freefly. Ths is a skill you'll need when drougeless freefall happens with your tandems and a skill that will take you far in the years to come. Smile

It's all about marketability, right? Wink

ltdiver


What she said. freefly

WIth practice, you can stay with them on your belly with wings collapsed, hard arch, flying tight, but if they hold the drogue a bit or tumble, you have to chase. I dive out towards them head down right away and stay head down until the drogue comes out. I can stay tight and out of the way of the drogue. And if you want to be a well rounded camera fly, you have to be able to freefly.

peace
Karen Lewis
aka lew


airborne82nd  (C License)

Mar 22, 2006, 6:51 AM
Post #11 of 14 (729 views)
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Re: [airborne82nd] video tandem question when tandem delays drogue chute [In reply to] Can't Post

thanks to everyone who responded very good avice very very helpful

i have only 3 hours in the tunnel over 2 years i say i need to double that in the next 6 months

thanks again to everyone who responded


Vectracide  (D License)

Mar 23, 2006, 1:11 PM
Post #12 of 14 (650 views)
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Re: [airborne82nd] video tandem question when tandem delays drogue chute [In reply to] Can't Post

Have you thought about changing your exit timing some? If you leave before the tandem, you can be below (not exactly) them and get the aircraft in the exit shot. Its a real crowd pleaser, and that extra vertical distance will be eaten up by the faster accelerating tandem. You can accomplish this with some backflying or dead beetle flying.Wink


flyinfree  (D 27435)

Apr 17, 2006, 7:06 AM
Post #13 of 14 (560 views)
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Re: [lewmonst] video tandem question when tandem delays drogue chute [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
In reply to:
Quote:
anyhelp be realy appreciiated

On your off days (when not working, that is Tongue) take time to go learn to freefly. Ths is a skill you'll need when drougeless freefall happens with your tandems and a skill that will take you far in the years to come. Smile

It's all about marketability, right? Wink

ltdiver


What she said. freefly

WIth practice, you can stay with them on your belly with wings collapsed, hard arch, flying tight, but if they hold the drogue a bit or tumble, you have to chase. I dive out towards them head down right away and stay head down until the drogue comes out. I can stay tight and out of the way of the drogue. And if you want to be a well rounded camera fly, you have to be able to freefly.

peace
Karen Lewis
aka lew

I agree totally. I also exit head-down. The good thing is if they do throw the drogue early you haven't built up too much speed and can slow easily if needed, if the dont it is easy to keep up.

It is also neat to see the funny look on the instructors face when you are in some akward position. When that happens I always ask them on the ground what I looked like.


Fast  (D 28237)

Apr 17, 2006, 11:21 AM
Post #14 of 14 (529 views)
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Re: [flyinfree] video tandem question when tandem delays drogue chute [In reply to] Can't Post

I am still learning a ton but the suggestion of leaving headdown is one of the things the two guys who are mentoring me brought up. I like it and I am able to stay with the tandem a lot easier if they don't throw the drogue right away.

It is funny cause every video I shoot I get frustrated because I keep comparing myself to the best 2 guys on my DZ. I just can't be that good yet. The whole thing is awesome though.

I don't have wings on in this picture set but the exit is the same with or w/o them.


I make little mistakes here and there that screw my video up now and then. The big thing im trying to do right now is keep the subject in frame on drogue throw. I just need to react faster / anticipate more and I will get it.

Anyways, I like this exit style. It works great for my DZ because in a couple weeks we will have our lettering for this year that has our DZ website on the bottom of the plane.


Flying video is so cool for me because I am a photographer at heart.


Edit: Just in looking at that picture more (headdown.jpg). Considering that the relative wind is coming from the right hand side. The tandem pair is fairly "headdown" when exiting. I mean, its just hard for them to present that well to the wind. The thinking I have for why this works ok for video people is that, as a pair, the tandem presents the same surface area per person in a head down orientation as a single flyer. Now I am probally thinking too much into this but that just seems like it might be part of why it works so well, at least for how the TMs I jump with fly.

All my video this far has been out of pocket as practice, you might not think it would be as rewarding as busting a hot 4-way or FF jump, but it sure is!


It's also cool when you get to see yourself from the next camera guy, sure helps in the learning process.


(This post was edited by Fast on Apr 17, 2006, 11:27 AM)
Attachments: hang.jpg (101 KB)
  before.jpg (116 KB)
  headdown.jpg (114 KB)
  after.jpg (110 KB)



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