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Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door?

 

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The111  (D 29246)

Mar 20, 2006, 2:19 PM
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Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? Can't Post

Two weeks ago something happened that infuriated me. A freeflier push my girlfriend and I out the door as soon as the greenlight came on. We were not past the spot yet, the winds were high, and we were almost forced to land off in very undesirable conditions.

I almost posted about it here but decided against it.

Then I read this post and had to reply.

What do you think?


wmw999  (D 6296)

Mar 20, 2006, 2:22 PM
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Re: [The111] Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

The video was very funny; kind of like watching a tripping that goes well.

But no, it's not the least bit funny to actually do it. For all the reasons you stated in your post in the other thread.

Wendy W.


sundevil777  (D License)

Mar 20, 2006, 2:33 PM
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Re: [The111] Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think I would be in a violent mood.

What did you do to the person that pushed you?


ladyskydiver

Mar 20, 2006, 2:34 PM
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Re: [The111] Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

Absolutely not....unless both parties discussed it on the ground and are playing a "trick" on other jumpers (or students) in the plane.

Read your post about the issue you had...did you talk to the S&TA and get the situation resolved or was it let go?


bob.dino  (E 2185)

Mar 20, 2006, 2:35 PM
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Re: [The111] Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

That freeflier owes you an apology and two jump tickets. He's lucky he didn't get grounded, as that's a real safety issue.


(This post was edited by bob.dino on Mar 20, 2006, 2:35 PM)


The111  (D 29246)

Mar 20, 2006, 2:39 PM
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Re: [sundevil777] Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

We didn't know exactly who pushed, and could only narrow it down to about 3 people who all jokingly avoided the issue when we brought it up with them. Lesson learned, don't ever sit in front of those people. Would have been pointless to try to involve any "authorities", S&TA, whatever. I am not very violent either, no matter how mad I get.


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Mar 20, 2006, 2:47 PM
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Re: [The111] Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

NO! it is not funny.

It almost happened to me and my team mates one time. I looked below and we happened to be well down wind, over the city (3 miles + or - from the DZ). I held up my hand and held my team mates to their seats, a staffer decided to "help me" to the door, I saw him comming and just stepped to the back of the otter and watched him freefall away. His group chased him out the door and all 6 landed in the city, 1 with a pretty badly sprained ankle.

Spot people. It is better than riding an ambulance or going to your own funeral.
Green only means the pilot thinks your good to exit, you need to KNOW your good to exit.


freefalle  (D 27777)

Mar 20, 2006, 3:16 PM
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Re: [The111] Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

Na, that shit isn't funny, you and your girl could have been hurt. I probably wouldn't have handled it as well as you did Matt, you are a gentleman.


azureriders  (D 28830)

Mar 20, 2006, 3:50 PM
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Re: [The111] Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

An eye for an eye and a push for a push. I would just push him back. You know, as soon as I got in reach of him on the ground, swing my fist back and then forward as hard as I could and when it contacted his nose, then I would push for all I was worth.

No, I probably would not have went that far, but I would not have found it funny either. I maybe a newbie, but I like my right to spot.


BIGUN  (D 23385)

Mar 20, 2006, 3:52 PM
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Re: [The111] Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think not. Mostly for their own safety. Mad


flyinghonu  (A 45403)

Mar 20, 2006, 3:54 PM
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Re: [The111] Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

Landing off or getting "hurt" is just one of the fairly mild things that could happen - how about the fact that only people who KNOW that the sky is clear of other traffic (INCLUDING OTHER AIRCRAFT) are the people exiting!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not sure how "funny" it would be in your situation (or even the one in the Chris Cowden video) if some impatient idiots pushed other jumpers into a situation that could result in a mid-air collision and, obviously, death.

If someone did this to me - I'd DEFINITELY be bringing it up with ST&A and the jumper who did the pushing - at the VERY least.


USPA  (D 81812)

Mar 20, 2006, 3:55 PM
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Re: [The111] Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

there is a difference between "fooling around" among staffers and regular jumpers and the selfish dangerous act you are describing. Pushing someone out of the door because you're in a hurry is an extreme violation of basic safety. If it would happen the way you described it at I dropzone I was at, I would have grounded the person who pushed for at least 2 weeks (which in the dutch system instructors are able to do).


bodypilot1  (D 16037)

Mar 20, 2006, 4:03 PM
Post #13 of 115 (3185 views)
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Re: [The111] Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Not cool. Mad
Having to push people out the door to get a good spot and then having no spine to admit it is even worst.....

They'd be spitting out their teeth like Chicklets if it were me. Wink



Be safe
Ed


ripcord4  (D 2238)

Mar 20, 2006, 4:10 PM
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Re: [The111] Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

No, it is NOT funny in the least. If anything would have happened to either one of you (fatality), a good District Attorney could construe that as Manslaughter.


Floats18  (C 35650)

Mar 20, 2006, 4:48 PM
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Re: [ripcord4] Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm gonna have to apologise here for my post.

I jump at a very small drop zone where everyone knows eachother very well.

We spot manually and we have an incredible amount of outs (indiana).

I presumed that the video was at a DZ similar to mine where everyone is active in spotting the plane/ knowing eachother/ knowing eachother's dive plan.

I agree that in a situation where the flat flyers are unprepared this could have been an incident.

My bad on the joke -

I'm just weather grounded and extremely easily entertained Crazy


alw  (C 35179)

Mar 20, 2006, 4:52 PM
Post #16 of 115 (3139 views)
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Re: [The111] Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

Definately not funny for whatever reason on whatever jump run with whatever outs. Traffic, weather, spot or gear issues could cause an injury or worse. The plane can go around and you can all fight about it on the ground, but that one in a million chance that something goes wrong is too critical to take the chance.

I was on four loads that weekend where the first jumper/group held in the door waiting for the spot and on each one they were urged by people in the back of the bus. In each case they were right to hold and by the time everyone was on the ground it had been forgotten.

Not cool, not funny, and never the right thing to do.


johnny1488  (D 25453)

Mar 20, 2006, 5:16 PM
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Re: [The111] Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

I would never tell (or make) anyone get out if they were spotting. Thats a ground rule.

But i have torn peoples heads off while staring at cloud cover when they knew damn well we went through a layer at 5k. "The light ain't gonna get any greener!!!"

If you know you can't spot and aren't prepared for that when the door opens, get the fuck out of the way. Personally for me it is usually RW groups. Or when they can they want to get out over the peas. Bullshit.

But if its a safety issue, I would never pressure anyone to get out.


(This post was edited by johnny1488 on Mar 20, 2006, 5:17 PM)


kelpdiver  (B 7)

Mar 20, 2006, 5:30 PM
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Re: [bodypilot1] Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:

Not cool. Mad
Having to push people out the door to get a good spot and then having no spine to admit it is even worst.....

yeah, I'm more bothered by the lack of owning up, or from the others that almost certainly observed it. If given a chance to say (it wasn't clear how directly everyone on the load was asked), it suggests the person knew he was out of line, and buddies are covering.


happythoughts  (D License)

Mar 20, 2006, 6:50 PM
Post #19 of 115 (3052 views)
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Re: [The111] Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

Explain the incident to the S&TA. Ask them to speak to the person. It will be handled better.

First, they can't just walk away from you and blow it off with a "whatever, dude". They have to stop and explain it.

Second, there isn't a good "reasonable" explanation. Neither "Just fun" or impatience are valid.

I have found that the S&TA will leave a more serious impression and have a better chance of making a difference. It is their job to define the limits of behaviour so that this does not occur again.


The111  (D 29246)

Mar 20, 2006, 7:15 PM
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Re: [happythoughts] Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

Again, I don't know exactly who it was. Unsure It is narrowed down to 2-3 people, which means nothing.


Deuce  (D 25597)

Mar 20, 2006, 9:14 PM
Post #21 of 115 (2984 views)
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Re: [The111] Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

No, it's not OK.

The first rule of practical spotting is ignore the shouting assh*les in the front of the plane*.

As to pushing any group out of the plane, it's not a friendly thing to do no matter where you live. Jump tickets are getting REALLY expensive and people can afford to jump less. If somebody can only get a couple jumps a week (or month!) that setup and exit is a precious thing for someone to screw up just for a giggle. Think of the difference between just slick-nailing a perfect exit (that never gets old!) and funnelling one. I agree that jumpers that get pushed deserve replacement tickets from the pushers.

*Pilot not included.


bodypilot1  (D 16037)

Mar 20, 2006, 10:20 PM
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Re: [Deuce] Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

 
In reply to:
Jump tickets are getting REALLY expensive and people can afford to jump less. If somebody can only get a couple jumps a week (or month!) that setup and exit is a precious thing for someone to screw up just for a giggle.

It's not just a money issue, but instead a safety issue also.
Other aircraft flying in the local air space are not always picked up by the pilot and first out should always look for planes in the area and down the line of flight that could interfere with jumpers exiting on the load.


Be safe
Ed


rasmack  (D 647)

Mar 21, 2006, 2:03 AM
Post #23 of 115 (2891 views)
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Re: [The111] Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

Yep. Very funny although I prefer being the one getting pushed... Oh, you mean without telling the pushee in advance? Hell no.

As for the 2-3 people, I would hope that most DZOs would just ground all of them for covering up an obvious safety issue.


Randy_H  (C License)

Mar 21, 2006, 4:30 AM
Post #24 of 115 (2840 views)
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Re: [The111] Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

I think they would probably be looking for their teeth if they did it to me. Not funny at all.


Premier PhreeZone  (D License)
Moderator
Mar 21, 2006, 5:44 AM
Post #25 of 115 (2801 views)
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Re: [bodypilot1] Is it "funny" to push somebody out of the door? [In reply to] Can't Post

If some one is completely climb out how long to you let them out there before you either push them off or pull them in? Part of spoting is knowing when to climb out. If you climb out and then hang out there waiting on the spot to get better before having anyone else climb out that either better be a really big way that needs a really long climb out, or you need to figure out how to spot and exit again.


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