Forums: Skydiving: Safety and Training:
Safe? - Photo inside

 

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Buried  (D License)

Feb 28, 2006, 3:26 PM
Post #1 of 142 (3108 views)
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Safe? - Photo inside Can't Post

for some reason this picture does not seem safe, or in best interest of the tandem.. It does say that it was taken in Mexico... but still that doesn't matter.

thoughts?


http://skydiveradio.com/pic_of_week/potw29.jpg
caption from skydive radio.com
"A tandem pair joins a hybrid jump over Mexico. Photo by Daniel Angulo."


(This post was edited by Buried on Feb 28, 2006, 3:32 PM)


Kimblair13  (D 28140)

Feb 28, 2006, 3:28 PM
Post #2 of 142 (3079 views)
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Re: [Buried] Safe? [In reply to] Can't Post

It's Mexico...who cares!Tongue

Tandem student seems to be having a great time...but that dudes shirt is covering his handles.Shocked


(This post was edited by Kimblair13 on Feb 28, 2006, 3:29 PM)


piisfish

Feb 28, 2006, 3:28 PM
Post #3 of 142 (3077 views)
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Re: [Buried] Safe? [In reply to] Can't Post

besides the hybrid on the tandem.. the hanger has his tshirt over his reserve handle.

I think tandem manufacturers do not recommend such jumps or even forbid them.


lisamariewillbe  (A License)

Feb 28, 2006, 3:29 PM
Post #4 of 142 (3075 views)
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Re: [Buried] Safe? [In reply to] Can't Post

Is the tandem passenger an experienced jumper? Would it matter if they were? Im curious to. Even though I am not in a position to educate about this sport I am curious about the safety for new students like myself


darkwing  (D 4164)

Feb 28, 2006, 3:34 PM
Post #5 of 142 (3063 views)
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Re: [lisamariewillbe] Safe? [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Is the tandem passenger an experienced jumper? ...

If the knee position is any indicator, probably not an experienced jumper.


Kimblair13  (D 28140)

Feb 28, 2006, 3:39 PM
Post #6 of 142 (3055 views)
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Re: [darkwing] Safe? [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
If the knee position is any indicator, probably not an experienced jumper.

Hey! That's how I fly!Wink


tr027  (D License)

Feb 28, 2006, 3:43 PM
Post #7 of 142 (3047 views)
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Re: [Buried] Safe? - Photo inside [In reply to] Can't Post

 
Since safe is relative, it will as always depend on who you ask.


mattjw916  (D License)

Feb 28, 2006, 3:50 PM
Post #8 of 142 (3041 views)
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Re: [Buried] Safe? - Photo inside [In reply to] Can't Post

Skinny guy hanging from skinny girl... doesn't seem _that_ dangerous to me.

Personally, I think it's rather cool.


propilot  (C License)

Feb 28, 2006, 4:42 PM
Post #9 of 142 (2990 views)
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Re: [mattjw916] Safe? - Photo inside [In reply to] Can't Post

What if the dude hanging had a premature opening?

You could take out 3 people with on mistake.


I think it not a good idea.


mattjw916  (D License)

Feb 28, 2006, 4:45 PM
Post #10 of 142 (2987 views)
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Re: [propilot] Safe? - Photo inside [In reply to] Can't Post

Plenty of hybrids happen every weekend without anyone getting killed... you can "what-if" yourself to death on _any_ skydive that is not a solo.


Kimblair13  (D 28140)

Feb 28, 2006, 4:49 PM
Post #11 of 142 (2981 views)
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Re: [propilot] Safe? - Photo inside [In reply to] Can't Post

What if the drogue fell off, at the same time the hanger let out a horrid fart, which led to those 3 colliding and their body parts flying out and killing both the dudes in a sit!Shocked

Then everything landed on a small pre-school killing the one child that would have been our future president!Laugh


(This post was edited by Kimblair13 on Feb 28, 2006, 4:50 PM)


mattjw916  (D License)

Feb 28, 2006, 4:57 PM
Post #12 of 142 (2971 views)
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Re: [Kimblair13] Safe? - Photo inside [In reply to] Can't Post

ROFL!!! Laugh


lisamariewillbe  (A License)

Feb 28, 2006, 5:06 PM
Post #13 of 142 (2960 views)
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Re: [mattjw916] Safe? - Photo inside [In reply to] Can't Post

Tandems are a great way to introduce someone into this sport, I dont find it funny at all to add an additional risk to an already dangerous activity when dealing with students. Whats the chances that tandem passenger was informed of just how dangerous a hybrid could be, not to mention a hybrid with 2 sit flyers and a camera man?


Kimblair13  (D 28140)

Feb 28, 2006, 5:12 PM
Post #14 of 142 (2954 views)
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Re: [lisamariewillbe] Safe? - Photo inside [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
Tandems are a great way to introduce someone into this sport

And that they are...I know if I were a new student, having all those people around me would be bad ass and I would probably be much more likely to want to do it again.

...Leaving out the mention of added dangers. Which...a student probably wouldn't even be able to comprehend. They know they could die...what's much worse than that?


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Feb 28, 2006, 5:16 PM
Post #15 of 142 (2948 views)
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Re: [Kimblair13] Safe? - Photo inside [In reply to] Can't Post

So, because the student is unaware of the ADDED risk of a hanger, it ok?

Since they know no better it is ok to have alittle extra fun with them?

OK, fine it works no harm done.

What about if they do stay and find out later that those 2 individuals put them at greater danger?

Of course, this is ignoring the rig makers view on the matter.

IMO, the added "fun" is not worth the added risk.


lisamariewillbe  (A License)

Feb 28, 2006, 5:18 PM
Post #16 of 142 (2946 views)
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Re: [Kimblair13] Safe? - Photo inside [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
They know they could die...what's much worse than that?

An instructor adding things to the equation that make the chances of injury or death magnified. An instructor going against the manufactors rules when using gear that is designed to carry two people. As and instructor do you truely feel that this picture is in the best interest of the passenger? Yes they will think its cool, but ya know, that first jump is cool enough without risking their life MORE then it already is.

I think Id rather students have less an experience in the air if it means adding so much unknowns that are proven to be dangerous for experienced jumpers. Maybe I am wrong, I am not an instructor, and never plan to be. However I am a student, and I have gotten family and other wuffos to do tandems and if I was on a DZ with one and I heard about a dive flow like this, I would pack our shit and leave.

Skydiving is scarey enough and exciting enough to where people shouldnt do stupid shit with a wuffo.


Kimblair13  (D 28140)

Feb 28, 2006, 5:24 PM
Post #17 of 142 (2932 views)
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Re: [matthewcline] Safe? - Photo inside [In reply to] Can't Post

According to manufacturer...bad idea.

According to the Student/FFers/TI/Vidiot...it's all personal, EVERYONE feels different about situations like these.

What I think is safe would be not safe to someone else and totally safe to another person.

Would I ever do that? Never say Never.

Have I ever done that? No.

But, it is a cool picture...safe overall? probably not...
Worth the risk?...to each his own...

SKYDIVING isn't safe, but we still do it.


(This post was edited by Kimblair13 on Feb 28, 2006, 5:28 PM)


matthewcline  (D 21585)

Feb 28, 2006, 5:28 PM
Post #18 of 142 (2920 views)
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Re: [Kimblair13] Safe? - Photo inside [In reply to] Can't Post

Ifthe Student hadthe info and made an informed decision, OK.

But if the Student did not have the info and did not get to decide, then it is wrong.

Again, IMO it is bad to add additional risk and potentially killing some one just to look cool.


Kimblair13  (D 28140)

Feb 28, 2006, 5:30 PM
Post #19 of 142 (2917 views)
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Re: [matthewcline] Safe? - Photo inside [In reply to] Can't Post

Let's remember this was in MEXICO...where I'm sure rules are different. Tongue


lisamariewillbe  (A License)

Feb 28, 2006, 5:37 PM
Post #20 of 142 (2912 views)
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Re: [Kimblair13] Safe? - Photo inside [In reply to] Can't Post

Quote:
SKYDIVING isn't safe, but we still do it.

So , in the name of a cool picture would you be okay with someone with 50 jumps swooping... after all IF they are okay, it will make a cool picture. Or someone with 15 jumps doing a Crew jump because after all its a cool picture? Or what about 2 someones with 10,000 jumps playing a game of "chicken" in a low pull contest because after all, the picture would be "cool" from the ground, to see people so close yet still in freefall.

Skydiving isnt safe. However to add risk to someone who does not know better, to me does not deserve to be a instructor and IF a fatality occured it would be EASY to be sued since one can not waiver negligence. And "It is a cool picture" would not be a defence to "your daughter died because the the hangers reserve deployed, but we have a cool picture of right before hand... heres a copy"

"A cool picture" will not be enough to warrent the life of a STUDENT. EVER. I dont care how many jumps all those people had or how much experience or how much they really wanted that "cool picture"


mattjw916  (D License)

Feb 28, 2006, 5:39 PM
Post #21 of 142 (2906 views)
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Re: [lisamariewillbe] Safe? - Photo inside [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps you should explain to us why you think this is _so_ dangerous? Knowing what I do about the Sigma tandem system (not an expert though) I don't see anything inordinately dangerous here.


Kimblair13  (D 28140)

Feb 28, 2006, 5:41 PM
Post #22 of 142 (2903 views)
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Re: [lisamariewillbe] Safe? - Photo inside [In reply to] Can't Post

And that's YOUR opinion. I'm not going to sit here and argue OPINIONS. It could go on for days and nobody would win. All skydivers have a different view of what is safe and what is dangerous and that is a FACT.


(This post was edited by Kimblair13 on Feb 28, 2006, 5:42 PM)


lisamariewillbe  (A License)

Feb 28, 2006, 5:44 PM
Post #23 of 142 (2898 views)
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Re: [mattjw916] Safe? - Photo inside [In reply to] Can't Post

Lets see, since I am a low jumper I dont know ALL the things that are a potential danger but I do know SOME of them.... and it has LITTLE to do with the tandem masters gear (except they are breaking the rules of use stated by the manufactors)

1. Hanger can have a reserve deployment. Possibly (more then likely) kill ALL THREE in the hybrid

2. Hanger can become un-stable and cork and hurt or kill the passenger and themselves

3. The higher speeds can cause problems as well. Which i learned this because I am considering my first hybrid and sought information on them.

Im sure there are issues that the people in the sit bring as well, and that they are posing an additional danger to the tandem passenger, but like I said, I myself am only a student and a customer, what would I know.


divnswoop  (D 18276)

Feb 28, 2006, 5:44 PM
Post #24 of 142 (2897 views)
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Re: [mattjw916] Safe? - Photo inside [In reply to] Can't Post

In reply to:
Perhaps you should explain to us why you think this is _so_ dangerous? Knowing what I do about the Sigma tandem system (not an expert though) I don't see anything inordinately dangerous here.

Uh....the tandem rig has nothing to do with it being dangerous.....


mattjw916  (D License)

Feb 28, 2006, 5:48 PM
Post #25 of 142 (2889 views)
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Re: [divnswoop] Safe? - Photo inside [In reply to] Can't Post

So, then what's the _big_ problem? Premature of the hanger? Why is that anymore likely on this jump than any other? I've done faaaar more "dangerous" stuff than that then. Unimpressed


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